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Meg Griffin	Posted - 2008.10.14 16:43:00 - [1] Hi all, I'm just about ready to start inventing T2 frigates. I have the skills. I have the datacores, the interfaces and the decryptors that I got from months of hacking radar plexes. After looking at things, I noticed that using decryptors to invent T2 frigate BPC's is not cost effective. But not using them gives me a fairly high probability of failure - even with the encryption and datacore skills at level 5. Is that chance of failure just something I have to learn to live with? I simply cannot justify using a 10M ISK decryptor to invent a 5M ISK BPC. Any thoughts? Also, what meta level is a standard T1 version of a ship when used in the invention process. Say I use a regular Rifter to invent a Jaguar BPC. Does the Rifter count as Meta 0, Meta 1, or something else entirely? Thanks for all the help.
Braaage Ministry of Craft	Posted - 2008.10.14 16:53:00 - [2] Don't put ANY ships in an invention job they are all meta level 0 which means they contribute to nothing except ISK wasting. -- POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, Character Generator & more
Zombiefly The Nimax Family	Posted - 2008.10.14 17:15:00 - [3] I have just finished researching my BPOs of Caldari frigates to 0.01% waste and a good amount of PE. Frigates have a base sucess rate of inventing to T2 of 30%. With my alts skills it is increased to 36%. Dong 9 invention jobs at once has, in the long run, been very close to 1/3 of the time(so 3 jobs of the 9 turn T2). It costs me 10 million for the datacores. This puts me at a 6.6 million isk loss. I also make my own T1 variants of the ships. This generally costs me between 40,000 to 100,000 isk. Then I buy the T2 materials and make the T2 Frigate. Doing this makes me about 7 million per ship. 3 ships x 7 million = 21 million It is proffitable to make T2 frigates. I have a good friend who makes Hulks and i make MUCH more than he does. And if you think about it T2 frigates are always needed, because they are very easy to lose in PvP. Try a batch and see if you make anything on it. It may cost you more or less depending on who you know.
Ichire Dacar	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:58:00 - [4] That's good to hear someone netting out at the average base chance, as there are a lot of posts here about success rates falling, etc. I'm not an inventor, although I have the skills and equipment to be one. As a long time manufacturer of T1 and T2, when I've run the numbers I struggle to get them to work as well as my main manufacturing business (although admittedly, I'm at the point where to scale up I need to diversify, so I'm looking at invention again quite closely). The problem I have, is that if I understand you correctly, you're making 7 mil per ship, which means if you're covering your 6.6 mil loss over three ships (2.2 mil per ship) plus your manufacturing cost (say a couple more mil per ship - not at home so don't have numbers to hand) then you must be selling at 11 or 12 mil plus per ship. That's great if you can get it, but almost all T2 frig hulls near me sell around 7 or 8 mil. I see quite a few for sale anywhere from 10 - 14, but they're regularly undercut my a margin of millions. So, I can't make my numbers work, or at least not as well as the alternatives. I mostly sell in hubs though, so I guess moving might mean lower volume, but bigger revenues which might improve my profit overall. As I say, I'm not knocking inventing, I'm looking at at how to make it work at the moment, but with so many inventors borking their own market by selling below or at cost based on 'free' datacores, it's hard to see how to enter the market.
Lo Lightshard Insurrection Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.15 03:20:00 - [5] Originally by: Zombiefly It is proffitable to make T2 frigates. I have a good friend who makes Hulks and i make MUCH more than he does. Not sure about how this works. Your hulk building mate should be making much more that you if you're doing a fair comparison. Yes, you can make money making frigs in a very good market but you are using all your lab slots. These could be put to better use inventing something more profitable -- like cruisers. If you are building up capital then fair enough but building T2 frigs is profitable like mining lowsec ore is profitable -- there's a better use of resources. [IMA6E REMOVED]
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Gallente aurorae pacificas	Posted - 2008.10.15 05:40:00 - [6] Originally by: Braaage Don't put ANY ships in an invention job they are all meta level 0 which means they contribute to nothing except ISK wasting. Are you sure? I was under the impression that ships were metalvl 1- therefore giving a slight increase to success.
Lo Lightshard Insurrection Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.15 06:02:00 - [7] Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Originally by: Braaage Don't put ANY ships in an invention job they are all meta level 0 which means they contribute to nothing except ISK wasting. Are you sure? I was under the impression that ships were metalvl 1- therefore giving a slight increase to success. He is sure :) They are meta level 0. [IMA6E REMOVED]
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Gallente aurorae pacificas	Posted - 2008.10.15 06:18:00 - [8] Originally by: Lo Lightshard Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Originally by: Braaage Don't put ANY ships in an invention job they are all meta level 0 which means they contribute to nothing except ISK wasting. Are you sure? I was under the impression that ships were metalvl 1- therefore giving a slight increase to success. He is sure :) They are meta level 0. wow- well there goes a couple 100mil in minerals
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.15 06:39:00 - [9] Originally by: Meg Griffin Hi all, I'm just about ready to start inventing T2 frigates. I have the skills. I have the datacores, the interfaces and the decryptors that I got from months of hacking radar plexes. After looking at things, I noticed that using decryptors to invent T2 frigate BPC's is not cost effective. But not using them gives me a fairly high probability of failure - even with the encryption and datacore skills at level 5. Is that chance of failure just something I have to learn to live with? I simply cannot justify using a 10M ISK decryptor to invent a 5M ISK BPC. Any thoughts? Also, what meta level is a standard T1 version of a ship when used in the invention process. Say I use a regular Rifter to invent a Jaguar BPC. Does the Rifter count as Meta 0, Meta 1, or something else entirely? Thanks for all the help. The decryptors are priced on the return from the better paying invention jobs. So it is not rewarding to use them inventing frigates.

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