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Marlona Sky
Caldari
Astroglide X
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Posted - 2008.10.16 06:01:00 -
[1]
When ECM ships got a boost, they forgot to boost ECCM modules to match the change. Now everywhere you go (especially in low sec) there is Falcons everywhere.
It is simply not possible to roam in low sec in a small gang without brining your own Falcon to jam their falcon. This is just silly.
ECCM modules should get a much needed boost.
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Marlona Sky
Astroglide X
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Posted - 2008.10.16 06:02:00 -
[2]
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Raquel Trotter
Trotters Independent Trading
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Posted - 2008.10.16 10:25:00 -
[3]
But falcons are caldari... nerfing caldari is not allowed ok?
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:54:00 -
[4]
When did ECM ships get a boost? Was that about the same time as ECM got it's strength reduced 50%?
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Tusko Hopkins
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Posted - 2008.12.04 14:31:00 -
[5]
I support this...
ECCM modules are kind of costly on any ship (take a med or low slot), but to make things worst, a single ECCM module wont help you much against a falcon (except if you are flying a carrier). You need 2. Or 3.
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Star Nove
Blueprint Haus
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.12.04 14:49:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Tusko Hopkins
I support this...
ECCM modules are kind of costly on any ship (take a med or low slot), but to make things worst, a single ECCM module wont help you much against a falcon (except if you are flying a carrier). You need 2. Or 3.
a falcon should not be able to perma jam a domi with a best named ECCM AND a backup fitted.
/supported, boost ECCM! |
FlameGlow
Legio Octae
Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.04 15:06:00 -
[7]
You want to fit one ECCM and be immune to jamming? It already halves chances of successfull jam.
If your BS gets jammed all the time it means falcon pilot is using more then one jammer there, you can't counteract multiple tracking disruptors/dampeners with one module, why should you be able to do it in ECM case?
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I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button. |
Tusko Hopkins
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Posted - 2008.12.04 15:08:00 -
[8]
No, I do not want someone fitting one ECCM to be immune to jamming.
CSM representative
CSM candidate for 2nd cycle
Campaign website
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameb |
FunzzeR
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.12.04 18:59:00 -
[9]
Supported
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.12.04 19:01:00 -
[10]
I'd be more inclined to increase the statistical chances of immunity via skills and not buffing the module.
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I SoStoned
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Posted - 2008.12.04 19:50:00 -
[11]
ECM is not broken, nor is ECCM, it's the signal strength over range.
If you'll notice (bug hunters might want to check this out) an ECM ship up close and personal has a very very low chance of jamming its target, even if it's a Falcon. That same ship at max range has a far better chance.
I believe this mechanic has to do with the sensor strength falloff over range (if that even exists) which explorers have had to deal with for nearly two years.
ECCM doubling your base sensor str halves the Falcon's chance to jam you with one jammer (remote ECCM II = +120% @ 50+ KM!). So he uses two, or three, or even more. ECM does not stack, so he has the exact same chance to block with any of them, and your ECCM has the same chance to block each time. It's only a matter of chance before one of the ECM modules does its job.
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Poast Warrior
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.12.05 00:01:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Poast Warrior on 05/12/2008 00:01:14
Supported, ECCM are too ineffective. If I'm giving up one VERY expensive slot to counter ONE single form of ewar, that has absolutely no other benefit, it needs to be effective. ECCM as it stands is most certainly not effective.
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Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.12.05 10:47:00 -
[13]
Supported. Afaik ECCM is not affected by skills unlike ECM, and the bonusses on ECM ships, so at the very least ECM and ECCM should be on the same baseline. That or implement ECCM skills.
Diary of a pod pilot |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
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Posted - 2008.12.05 12:11:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde on 05/12/2008 12:10:56
Falcons are definatly getting out of hand, boosting ECCM is a good way to band aid that problem.
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Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |
Seiji Hannah
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.12.05 12:31:00 -
[15]
Supported - EWAR is currently broken, one of the ways to fix it is to provide working countermeasures.
Revamp of System Jump / Warp mechanics |
Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.12.05 14:29:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Zhula Guixgrixks on 05/12/2008 14:34:48
Originally by: Star Nove
a falcon should not be able to perma jam a domi with a best named ECCM AND a backup fitted.
Thats just wrong. A Falcon can perma-jam ships between 10-14 sensor strength (depends on range, skills, rigs etc.) A ECCM Dominix has a strength about 44 points. 44 points without overloading and additional backup/eccm modules. Just let's do some math (again).
preconditions:
- 5 x racial jammer , two gallente and 3 "wrong" jammers.
- jam strength of "right" jammer ~ 12.5
- jam strenght of "wrong" jammer ~ 4
probability of miss a jam cycle with a "right" jammer : p1 = 1-12/44
probability of miss a jam cycle with a "wrong" jammer : p2 = 1-4/44
probability of jam a ECCM Dominix : 1-(P1^2*P2^3) = 61%
You can of course do some variations like adding 1-2 jammer, or using only gallente jammers but such synthetic tests are not representing real combat fittings for a falcon. Even having two of "right" jammers
isn't very likely.
Let's say it again: a good skilled Falcon/Rook has a chance to to jam a ECCM-Dominix of over 60% when using all its jammers on 1 ship. Thats far from perma-jam capability.
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Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.05 15:13:00 -
[17]
well falcon have 100% chance to jam hac with right jammer, how it is chance based i ask you
Quote:
It's not a good idea to place a Exotic Dancers in a Giant Secure Container. The Exotic Dancers will not survive intact, if transported in such a container.
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Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.12.05 15:43:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Zhula Guixgrixks on 05/12/2008 15:51:14
Yes it has a 100% probability of jamming a non-ECCM HACs with full rack of sig amps/rigs.
ECCM modules are not that popular in HAC fittings. Why is this so ? I think most HAC pilots consider real DMG more dangerous than ECM. I call it free choice.
If anybody fits his ship to tank real damage, he usually uses 3-5 slots to create a viable tank. 3-5 slots, thats a lot. Even ships with natural resistances do fit some kind of tank or buffer. Skipping even most rudimentary tank leads to a disaster under enemy fire.
Same kind of disaster happens when a ECM-untanked HAC meets a Falcon.
Some people think, fitting 1 ECCM module should be enough to counter ECM. Why not fit 3-4 or more modules ?
Thats simple, because pilots decide to fit armor or shield tanks and no real ECM-tanks.
Don't tell me "I'm missing additional med slots for ECCM". Use low slots if you desperate need ECCM. "My low slots already filled with hardeners". It's your choice.
Look at ships with natural ECM resistances, recon ships. They rock against Falcons but totally suck in tanking real dmg.
Now look again at recons. You can "tank" them, but they'll never shine as tank monsters. Same for ships with no ECM resistances. You can ECM-harden a dmg dealing ship, but it will never shine in this role. Maybe with exception of battleships, you can pretty well ECM-harden battleships.
"I fitted a reactive plating on my Maller and this Rupture still doing huge dmg to my ship. CCP boost platings!!"
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Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.05 17:08:00 -
[19]
falcon got around 60% to jam recon ;], cut range of falcon to range of al lrecons atound 60 km it will fix , glass overpowered ewar that can be taken off.
Quote:
It's not a good idea to place a Exotic Dancers in a Giant Secure Container. The Exotic Dancers will not survive intact, if transported in such a container.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.12.05 21:39:00 -
[20]
There have been other threads on this topic, and the math hasn't convinced me. ECCM seems fine as-is.
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Thanks to all those who voted for me. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.06 01:29:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kalintos Tyl
cut range of falcon to range of al lrecons atound 60 km it will fix
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2008.12.07 08:11:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Poast Warrior
Edited by: Poast Warrior on 05/12/2008 00:01:14
Supported, ECCM are too ineffective. If I'm giving up one VERY expensive slot to counter ONE single form of ewar, that has absolutely no other benefit, it needs to be effective. ECCM as it stands is most certainly not effective.
Fail.
Tracking comps do not fully counter tracking disruptors.
Targeting comps do not fully counter sensor damps.
Both only partially mitigate the effects of one, but (as with ECM) you will seldom see a ship fitting just one... or fleets with only 1 pilot using them (unless they're recon ships or ewar frigs).
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.12.07 08:32:00 -
[23]
Instead of boost eccm , why not nerf sensor boosters especially scan resolution scripts . Nowadays too many ppl fly their ships with 2-3 scan resoltuion scripted sensor boosters,which only has one stupid benefit that my ship which is normally fitted can't lock lone enemies in time before they go ****. So if we nerf scan resolution scrips then these ppl will get some free mid slots and can fit eccm-s there, and with those huge eccm increase in fittings falcons will be nerfed indirectly.
This is a perfect plan.No need for eccm boost ,and ccp is happy as they can nerf again.
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Baron Holbach
Gallente
Pernicious Creed
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Posted - 2008.12.07 16:55:00 -
[24]
its not the ecm or eccm strength thats the problem.
the problem is the range bonus on ecm ships making them able to jam at 200km range
Baron B.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.07 18:43:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Baron Holbach
its not the ecm or eccm strength thats the problem.
the problem is the range bonus on ecm ships making them able to jam at 200km range
God forbid that the long range sniping race should have a long range sniping e-war capability.
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Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.07 18:54:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Kalintos Tyl on 07/12/2008 18:56:35
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Originally by: Kalintos Tyl
cut range of falcon to range of al lrecons atound 60 km it will fix
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
wharts so funny?
rapier 40km cant be rigged
arazu 48km cant be rigged
curse 37,8km cant be rigged
falcon 162km + 41km and can be ranged rigged and strenght rigged
dont see range diffrence ?
5 vs 5
small gangs, arazu/rapier/curse decloacks to join ok we fight becouse we can win. falcon decloacks sorry we run becsoue 1 faclon can disable whole gang dont tell me that isnt imba
Quote:
It's not a good idea to place a Exotic Dancers in a Giant Secure Container. The Exotic Dancers will not survive intact, if transported in such a container.
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Idaeus
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.07 19:06:00 -
[27]
God don't ever fly an Arazu, that ship is terrible.
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FlameGlow
Legio Octae
Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.08 07:33:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kalintos Tyl
Edited by: Kalintos Tyl on 07/12/2008 18:56:35
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Originally by: Kalintos Tyl
cut range of falcon to range of al lrecons atound 60 km it will fix
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
wharts so funny?
rapier 40km cant be rigged
arazu 48km cant be rigged
curse 37,8km cant be rigged
falcon 162km + 41km and can be ranged rigged and strenght rigged
dont see range diffrence ?
5 vs 5
small gangs, arazu/rapier/curse decloacks to join ok we fight becouse we can win. falcon decloacks sorry we run becsoue 1 faclon can disable whole gang dont tell me that isnt imba
All those other recons have about 5 times more dps then falcon and twice its EHP, sure falcon is imba.
And wtf with "can't be rigged"? Particle dispersion projectors work not only for ecm but for painters, tracking disruptors and dampeners; learn to play instead of whining. There is egress port maximizer rig for pilgrim/curse as well.
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I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button. |
Rorin Cutter
Caldari
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.08 08:02:00 -
[29]
a falcon should not be able to perma jam a domi with a best named ECCM AND a backup fitted.
/supported, boost ECCM!
Yes it should, thats what falcons are for. ECM and Falcons are not broke. |
Jack Dant
Minmatar
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
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Posted - 2008.12.08 11:39:00 -
[30]
Originally by: FlameGlow
All those other recons have about 5 times more dps then falcon and twice its EHP, sure falcon is imba.
And wtf with "can't be rigged"? Particle dispersion projectors work not only for ecm but for painters, tracking disruptors and dampeners; learn to play instead of whining. There is egress port maximizer rig for pilgrim/curse as well.
Falcon dps really is a bit anemic, but its base EHP is actually slightly higher than that of a rapier or an arazu. If Falcon pilots decide not to fit any kind of tank or buffer in exchange for more jammers it's their decision, not part of the ship's limitations.
Drop jamming range closer to the other recons and you would probably see more tank and mwd on falcons. |
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