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Leto Corleone
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:46:00 -
[1]
Today everything is damn cheap. For example 2 years ago Navy ravens sold for over 1 billion, today they are 300mil. +5 implants were 400-500mil back then, some t2 modules several time the price of today, that were times where you paid 20mil for invul II and 8 mil for bcs II. A mothership was 30mil, today it costs half.
Everything was expensive, people were in need of isk to pvp, pve or having better skill training times. Not so today, when everything is cheap like dirt, there is no point buying isk. The isk isn't that desired anymore. People are therefore less willing to spend their rl cash for isk. Everyone seems to have enough isk for whatever he wants to do. More people having spare isk, less people are in need of isk, that's why GTCs are closing to 1bil for 60 day.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.10.17 12:37:00 -
[2]
That and people are already trading RL cash for Isk, it's called mining/mission alts.
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Market Garden
Operation Market Garden
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Posted - 2008.10.17 14:30:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Leto Corleone Today everything is damn cheap. For example 2 years ago Navy ravens sold for over 1 billion, today they are 300mil. +5 implants were 400-500mil back then, some t2 modules several time the price of today, that were times where you paid 20mil for invul II and 8 mil for bcs II. A mothership was 30mil, today it costs half.
Everything was expensive, people were in need of isk to pvp, pve or having better skill training times. Not so today, when everything is cheap like dirt, there is no point buying isk. The isk isn't that desired anymore. People are therefore less willing to spend their rl cash for isk. Everyone seems to have enough isk for whatever he wants to do. More people having spare isk, less people are in need of isk, that's why GTCs are closing to 1bil for 60 day.
WRONG
Even a child can see by looking at the timecode bazaar section of the forum there are far far more buyers than there are people selling timecodes. High demand = High prices. If there were more people selling codes then buying we would see falling prices.
Also timecodes are NOT approaching 1bill. They fluctuate around 500mill at the moment.
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Leto Corleone
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Posted - 2008.10.17 14:54:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Market Garden
Originally by: Leto Corleone Today everything is damn cheap. For example 2 years ago Navy ravens sold for over 1 billion, today they are 300mil. +5 implants were 400-500mil back then, some t2 modules several time the price of today, that were times where you paid 20mil for invul II and 8 mil for bcs II. A mothership was 30mil, today it costs half.
Everything was expensive, people were in need of isk to pvp, pve or having better skill training times. Not so today, when everything is cheap like dirt, there is no point buying isk. The isk isn't that desired anymore. People are therefore less willing to spend their rl cash for isk. Everyone seems to have enough isk for whatever he wants to do. More people having spare isk, less people are in need of isk, that's why GTCs are closing to 1bil for 60 day.
WRONG
Even a child can see by looking at the timecode bazaar section of the forum there are far far more buyers than there are people selling timecodes. High demand = High prices. If there were more people selling codes then buying we would see falling prices.
Also timecodes are NOT approaching 1bill. They fluctuate around 500mill at the moment.
Lol what an irrational comment, why is my statement wrong ? Of course there are less sellers now, that's what i said aswell. And there are less sellers BECAUSE of what i've written, how can you say my statement is wrong and give an explanation that is based exactly on what i've written Read again the op: because of low prices we have less sellers AND more buyers = higher prices, i just offered an explanation or at least one of the reason on the "why".
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.10.17 15:17:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Market Garden
Originally by: Leto Corleone Today everything is damn cheap. For example 2 years ago Navy ravens sold for over 1 billion, today they are 300mil. +5 implants were 400-500mil back then, some t2 modules several time the price of today, that were times where you paid 20mil for invul II and 8 mil for bcs II. A mothership was 30mil, today it costs half.
Everything was expensive, people were in need of isk to pvp, pve or having better skill training times. Not so today, when everything is cheap like dirt, there is no point buying isk. The isk isn't that desired anymore. People are therefore less willing to spend their rl cash for isk. Everyone seems to have enough isk for whatever he wants to do. More people having spare isk, less people are in need of isk, that's why GTCs are closing to 1bil for 60 day.
WRONG
Even a child can see by looking at the timecode bazaar section of the forum there are far far more buyers than there are people selling timecodes. High demand = High prices. If there were more people selling codes then buying we would see falling prices.
Also timecodes are NOT approaching 1bill. They fluctuate around 500mill at the moment.
You do realize your post basically explained the economics behind the OP, so instead of contradicting him you are in fact supporting his argument. Actually, you don't realize that or you wouldn't have included "WRONG" as the start of your comment.
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Market Garden
Operation Market Garden
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Posted - 2008.10.17 23:33:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: Leto Corleone Today everything is damn cheap. For example 2 years ago Navy ravens sold for over 1 billion, today they are 300mil. +5 implants were 400-500mil back then, some t2 modules several time the price of today, that were times where you paid 20mil for invul II and 8 mil for bcs II. A mothership was 30mil, today it costs half.
Everything was expensive, people were in need of isk to pvp, pve or having better skill training times. Not so today, when everything is cheap like dirt, there is no point buying isk. The isk isn't that desired anymore. People are therefore less willing to spend their rl cash for isk. Everyone seems to have enough isk for whatever he wants to do. More people having spare isk, less people are in need of isk, that's why GTCs are closing to 1bil for 60 day.
You do realize your post basically explained the economics behind the OP, so instead of contradicting him you are in fact supporting his argument. Actually, you don't realize that or you wouldn't have included "WRONG" as the start of your comment.
My apologies I missed a vital part.
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SencneS
Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2008.10.17 23:52:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Leto Corleone Today everything is damn cheap. For example 2 years ago Navy ravens sold for over 1 billion, today they are 300mil. +5 implants were 400-500mil back then, some t2 modules several time the price of today, that were times where you paid 20mil for invul II and 8 mil for bcs II. A mothership was 30mil, today it costs half.
Everything was expensive, people were in need of isk to pvp, pve or having better skill training times. Not so today, when everything is cheap like dirt, there is no point buying isk. The isk isn't that desired anymore. People are therefore less willing to spend their rl cash for isk. Everyone seems to have enough isk for whatever he wants to do. More people having spare isk, less people are in need of isk, that's why GTCs are closing to 1bil for 60 day.
There is a fundamental flaw in your thought process... If everyone has more ISK.... why are they selling GTC's to get even.. MORE ISK?
You suggest that because people have loads of ISK because everything is cheaper, and the "need" to have ISK is less of a desire because they have enough to do what they need to do... But you're commenting on how GTC's have risen in price, so the sells are getting more ISK then they every have before for the same Real Life money they spent on the GTC.
Go back to the drawing board my friend, your theory doesn't match the outcome.
P.S. I'll bye any Mothership you have for sale at the price you quoted above :)
Amarr for Life |
Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.18 00:53:00 -
[8]
Plus, the items you enumerate are now 'basics.' Faction, deadspace and officer gear is NOT getting cheaper. In fact, quite the opposite.
And yeah, motherships are the new battleships. Dreads are the new cruisers. And I can't wait to see a 50 man titan blob.
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SencneS
Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2008.10.18 03:42:00 -
[9]
This thread sold a heap for 390mil each... No where near 1bil in fact I would have purchased 2 at that price.
So I don't think 500mil is the standard to be honest, I think enough people out there sell for what they know they'll get. At 390mil he had more posts buyers then even a 450mil thread had.
It's clear 400mil is the magic price people will buy em up for in a heartbeat. 400-450 is a maybe, or only if they need it. 500mil is they are desperate and have no other choice. I doubt we'll see 550mil and if it gets to 1bil I'll be selling a few myself.
Amarr for Life |
Leto Corleone
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Posted - 2008.10.18 07:15:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Leto Corleone on 18/10/2008 07:22:49
Originally by: SencneS
There is a fundamental flaw in your thought process... If everyone has more ISK.... why are they selling GTC's to get even.. MORE ISK?
Less people are doing this than before, that's why we have less sellers (and more buyers), thats why the GTC prices are rising. Where exactly is the flaw in this thought ?
Originally by: SencneS
You suggest that because people have loads of ISK because everything is cheaper, and the "need" to have ISK is less of a desire because they have enough to do what they need to do... But you're commenting on how GTC's have risen in price, so the sells are getting more ISK then they every have before for the same Real Life money they spent on the GTC.
Go back to the drawing board my friend, your theory doesn't match the outcome.
People are getting more ISK for their RL cash, thats why there are more sellers now, is that your point ? In a rl cash economy that would be a valid point. But in Eve we see the sellers getting less dispite of that fact. Why this is ? Because Eve is not like rl economy where you can spend cash without limits. No matter how much you have you still can spend it for nice desireable things. Not so in Eve. According to all QENs the majority of people live in Empire, and there are not much things people can use isk on. Implants are cheap, if you want to pimp out your ship, 1-2 bil are enough (if you fit more, you'll put yourself at risk of suicideganking). 1-2 bil are easy to make with pve, no need to buy GTC.
In 0.0 things got cheaper aswell, cheap t2 modules etc. It costs me to around 50 million to lose a complete t2 equipped insured battleship, and i didn't lose one for weeks. But it takes only 1-2 hours to make 50mil, you see where this is going ? I simply can't spend my isk in a rational way, so even if i could get even more of it for rl cash, i don't need it cause there's nothing to buy with it.
Originally by: SencneS
P.S. I'll bye any Mothership you have for sale at the price you quoted above :)
That was a typo obviously, it's not million but 30-35 billion that they were worth before introduction of hic, now they cost half.
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.10.18 07:48:00 -
[11]
Another one of these threads...do we have a weekly quota or something?
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:45:00 -
[12]
God, I wish one of the regular MD guys would become a mod and start locking up stupid threads.
Drones | Ships | Weapons BPO and BPC |
Leto Corleone
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:52:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Brock Nelson God, I wish one of the regular MD guys would become a mod and start locking up stupid threads.
Or trolls like you. If you don't have anything to add to the topic then STFU.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.10.18 18:04:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Leto Corleone Or trolls like you. If you don't have anything to add to the topic then STFU.
You sir, fail.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.18 18:57:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Leto Corleone
People are getting more ISK for their RL cash, thats why there are more sellers now, is that your point ? In a rl cash economy that would be a valid point. But in Eve we see the sellers getting less dispite of that fact. Why this is ? Because Eve is not like rl economy where you can spend cash without limits. No matter how much you have you still can spend it for nice desireable things. Not so in Eve. According to all QENs the majority of people live in Empire, and there are not much things people can use isk on. Implants are cheap, if you want to pimp out your ship, 1-2 bil are enough (if you fit more, you'll put yourself at risk of suicideganking). 1-2 bil are easy to make with pve, no need to buy GTC.
You are wrong. The logic that everything is cheap, hence, isk is less valuable just doesn't fly. Here's why. You can buy more with your isk now. Hence, your isk is more valuable. Contrary to your assertion, 1-2 bil is not "easy to make". I'd say for the average player, it requires 50-200 hours of labor (assuming they can make 10-20 mil per hour). As I see it, a GTC currently buys 25-50 hours of Eve grind. A lot of people will take that bargain.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.18 21:08:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Leto Corleone Or trolls like you. If you don't have anything to add to the topic then STFU.
You sir, fail.
I nominate you to become our valued MD mod
Drones | Ships | Weapons BPO and BPC |
Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.10.19 01:19:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tasko Pal Contrary to your assertion, 1-2 bil is not "easy to make". I'd say for the average player, it requires 50-200 hours of labor (assuming they can make 10-20 mil per hour). As I see it, a GTC currently buys 25-50 hours of Eve grind. A lot of people will take that bargain.
You need to post these remarks in more of the GTC isk threads. I agree with your comments completely.
PS I see the GTC as a capital ship fund/IPO fund myself, but I'm employed.
Originally by: Shadarle I notice a lot of people who are very bad at playing the market tend to want CCP to step in and remove the competition from the market so they don't continue coming in last place.[/qu |
SencneS
Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2008.10.19 02:46:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Leto Corleone That was a typo obviously, it's not million but 30-35 billion that they were worth before introduction of hic, now they cost half.
I think it's clear you just don't understand the root of economics. You're looking for cause and effect, but all your seeing the effect and trying to match a reason why..
The above is a good example. Motherships didn't drop in price because of the Hic. I can see what you're thinking. People don't want Moms because the Hic can stop them from jumping, since a mom can't dock or warp away if in a hic bubble it makes it a sitting duck. So the demand for moms dropped, manufactures can't sell em so they have to sell the cheaper in order to recover some ISK.
I'm going to take a stab in the dark that you applied the same thoughts about GTC's, people have more money, because things are cheaper, therefor they are willing to spend 500+mil on GTC's because they can..
However it's still a fundamental flaw. You can't just stop at the first theory that matches.
Here is one that also matches.
Suicide Ganking and More secure Highsec is the reason GTC's went up in price.
High school students with summer time jobs buy subscriptions to EVE because they can afford it. After just 1 day of work they can afford to buy another GTC (Even at minimal wage). It's a well known fact that that younger players feel they can increase their epeen by griefing and gloating about it.
Here we go... The kids that suicide gank pay for their exploits by selling GTC. Since there are thousands more in summertime, GTC's are regularly available. With the introduction of more secure highsec and suicide ganking way down. Those losses of light battleship and normal T1 mods also went down. The demand of cheap equipment dropped and producers become effected. They are lowering their prices which is why things are cheaper now then there was before. Less EVE population, less ganking/losses in highsec. Since the kids that gank are not as effective as it was before it becomes too much of a hassle with little reward.
If you're going to come on here in MD forum come at us with real in depth theories instead of the first thing that popped into you head. Economics and Occam's razor have never played well together.
Amarr for Life |
Joss Sparq
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.19 09:31:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Leto Corleone A mothership was 30mil, today it costs half.
Hmmm, 15mil for a Mothership? I should pick up a couple of those ...
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Leto Corleone
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Posted - 2008.10.19 09:47:00 -
[20]
Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: Leto Corleone That was a typo obviously, it's not million but 30-35 billion that they were worth before introduction of hic, now they cost half.
I think it's clear you just don't understand the root of economics. You're looking for cause and effect, but all your seeing the effect and trying to match a reason why..
The above is a good example. Motherships didn't drop in price because of the Hic. I can see what you're thinking. People don't want Moms because the Hic can stop them from jumping, since a mom can't dock or warp away if in a hic bubble it makes it a sitting duck. So the demand for moms dropped, manufactures can't sell em so they have to sell the cheaper in order to recover some ISK.
Does this make sense ? You explain the arguements on my theory why MS went down in price, and then you take the statement itself as a proof that i don't understand economics. That's not a rational argumentation. If you doubt that the hic caused moms to drop in price, check the times when this happend. This was in the same month as the hic was introduced. And the causality is obvious aswell. People lost their lowsec-tool of invulnerabilty (not long before they lost the immunity to tacklers in 0.0) and stopped buying a ship that was a solo "lowsec solo p0wn mobile" before and could be tackeled thereafter. One of the reasons the hic was introduced were exactly the complaints about lowsec mom gatecamps and how they were out of balance because the mom pilot had no risk of being caught.
Originally by: SencneS
High school students with summer time jobs buy subscriptions to EVE because they can afford it.
How do you think you can know that ? Did you make a poll or can back this statement with statistics ? Usually students are the ones with more spare time and less money, compared to the working people, even if they do a summer job, which usually doesn't pay as much as the adults among our players get for their regular jobs. So your statements are not backed by facts or logic.
Originally by: SencneS
The kids that suicide gank pay for their exploits by selling GTC.
You base your explanation on this statement, but this statement proves that you have no clue. People were making billions with suicideganking. The point of it was that you could take a couple of few insured and cheap fitted battleships to kill an expensive fitted navy raven or a juicy freighter. With only a little investement and patience they earned more than any regular missionrunner or miner. You better don't talk about things that you know nothing about, if you doubt that suicide ganking was a lucrative job just check various bragging-threads and killmails on the crime and punishment board from that time.
Originally by: SencneS
If you're going to come on here in MD forum come at us with real in depth theories instead of the first thing that popped into you head. Economics and Occam's razor have never played well together.
My theory was clear and simple. Things are cheap in Eve, much cheaper then before. Therefore people are not in need of isk as much as before and are less willing to spend their rl money for that. All you do is attack some of my side statements with irrational arguements, but yes, who cares, people on this forum don't look on the content of a post anyways but on who has written it, before they decide to make a comment.
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Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.10.19 10:21:00 -
[21]
I'm not sure the OP is correct.
GTC prices were very low before the new style of GTCs were brought in and then increased. If as you say it's because isk has lost value against RL money then you would be seeing the prices of the old GTCs increase before the new ones were brought in.
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Righteous Deeds
Diverse Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.10.19 17:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Leto Corleone For example 2 years ago Navy ravens sold for over 1 billion, today they are 300mil.
If you or anyone else would like to sell me a load of these at 300 mil let me know. I'll take 15 to start, please.
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SencneS
Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2008.10.19 19:09:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Leto Corleone Said stuff with a childlike defense mechanisem..
Leto... Did I say that I believe that theory I posted was what I believe?
I pointed out the fact that you are looking at cause and effect and the very first shortest theory that matches was what you claim to be the right..
Originally by: SencneS You can't just stop at the first theory that matches.
Here is one that also matches.
Theories are always based off speculation, if everyone had the facts exactly right it wouldn't be a theory, it would be the reason.
Hardly anyone agrees with your so-called theory so it's obviously not a very good one. It's too simple, cheaper items doesn't mean more expensive GTC's. The lack of sellers means GTC's are more expensive, the demand for more GTC from buyers means more expensive GTC's.. Do cheaper items means less GTC sellers? I don't think so, people sell GTC's because they need capital for something expensive, which is the exact opposite to your cheap items theory.. Not many sell just because they want a fatter wallet, or says... "I could use another 400mil in my wallet, I'll just buy a GTC.."
Amarr for Life |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.20 00:25:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Leto Corleone A mothership was 30mil, today it costs half. .
WTB NYX 30mil.
I pay double. I will also pay whatever chribba wants. ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Octobers Opal
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Posted - 2008.10.20 11:56:00 -
[25]
There are many reasons for the rise in GTC prices, mainly I believe this to be the lack of sellers, based on the REAL world economy. Fewer people are using their own money to buy GTC's to sell.
For myself making ISK, is just the same as it was 3 years ago. This is because I have 1 account. With multipul accounts makning ISK is easier, and since we had power of 2 three times, or two can't remeber, and with the introduction of GTC's for ISK there are more ALTs in the game then ever.
60 day GTCs should be priced around the 280-320mil mark. Given that previous 30day being 120-150 and 90day being 380-420mil at their time. But high demand mean sellers will use this to their advantage, I wish I could afford several GTCs to sell, but sadly I have no RL cash to spare |
Blazing Fire
Interstellar Operations Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.10.21 10:07:00 -
[26]
One thing that adds up to the high price of the GTCs is that people are using less characters now. Due to the removal of the 30 day GTCs some people stopped to support second/third/forth account.
What this mean is that while they don't have the time to grind the ISK for 2 or more accounts, they can spend a bit more ISK for less accounts.
With the nerf of the inactive account training there will be more and more accounts left inactive.
I do expect the prices of the GTCs to rise even more.
My 2 cents.
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Bob Killan
Caldari Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.10.21 10:27:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Blazing Fire One thing that adds up to the high price of the GTCs is that people are using less characters now. Due to the removal of the 30 day GTCs some people stopped to support second/third/forth account.
What this mean is that while they don't have the time to grind the ISK for 2 or more accounts, they can spend a bit more ISK for less accounts.
With the nerf of the inactive account training there will be more and more accounts left inactive.
I do expect the prices of the GTCs to rise even more.
My 2 cents.
This would LOWER demand, and hence leave a Surplus of GTC's on the market.
Now what happens to an item in any market that has a surplus to supply???????
Tip. it is not what you suggest above, and its also not going to keep the same price.
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Blazing Fire
Interstellar Operations Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.10.21 10:58:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Blazing Fire on 21/10/2008 11:00:00
Originally by: Bob Killan
Originally by: Blazing Fire One thing that adds up to the high price of the GTCs is that people are using less characters now. ...
This would LOWER demand, and hence leave a Surplus of GTC's on the market.
Now what happens to an item in any market that has a surplus to supply???????
Tip. it is not what you suggest above, and its also not going to keep the same price.
Yes, basicaly the demand will lower in those conditions, but to some extend, as those who continue to buy GTCs will have to buy them more often at the end of each period, as they can't afk train chars anymore. And the demand will continue to be higher then the supply.
I don't think that what I've suggested will lower the demand much or at least not to the moment that it will be lower then the supply.
I think that there is low supply of GTC, because of the RL drama going on atm. For the same reason there is high demand, as people (don't want to/can't) spend real cash on EVE.
As far as I am concerned the price of GTCs will lower when one of the two, or both of the things happen: 1. CCP rolls back the things as they used to be - 30,60 and 90 day GTCs, and unnerf the afk training 2. RL things start to look brighter and people have enough money to spend on gaming.
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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.22 17:16:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Tasko Pal on 22/10/2008 17:17:39 Just a correction here. A number of people are claiming demand will exceed supply. Given the structure of this market, it is technically possible for supply to exceed demand. That would mean a growing number of unclaimed GTCs. But it isn't possible for demand to exceed supply. If you look at the market and decide not to buy a GTC because they're too expensive, then you aren't demand.
Added: Thinking about it, supply really isn't being exceeded either. Unsold GTCs either aren't on the market or the holder isn't willing to sell at current price. Either way, that means those GTCs aren't part of the supply.
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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.22 20:04:00 -
[30]
Likewise, it's not really possible for supply to exceed demand. At some point a GTC becomes cheap enough that people will buy it to throw on an account whether they need to or not.
A relatively recent change increased the demand for GTCs. That was CCPs intent. In turn higher demand resulted in higher ISK costs of GTCs. Which caused fewer GTCs being bought from CPP to achieve in-game ISK objectives. Which caused CPP to implement another change to increase demand. Round and round we go, where we stop nobody knows.
It's fair to say, however, that any analysis based on previous cycles is of zero value currently. Pricing movement going forward will be determined by fundamentals short term and any new cycles will only become apparent many months from now.
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.10.22 20:21:00 -
[31]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 22/10/2008 20:41:35
Originally by: Tasko Pal Edited by: Tasko Pal on 22/10/2008 17:17:39 Just a correction here. A number of people are claiming demand will exceed supply. Given the structure of this market, it is technically possible for supply to exceed demand. That would mean a growing number of unclaimed GTCs. But it isn't possible for demand to exceed supply. If you look at the market and decide not to buy a GTC because they're too expensive, then you aren't demand.
Added: Thinking about it, supply really isn't being exceeded either. Unsold GTCs either aren't on the market or the holder isn't willing to sell at current price. Either way, that means those GTCs aren't part of the supply.
What you're describing only happens when price stabilizes (i.e. supply meets demand). It is impossible for supply to meet demand constantly. If I'm not demand what's stopping the price from dropping again?
Scams compilation |
Veritech knight
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Posted - 2008.10.22 20:54:00 -
[32]
I bought 5 30days for 150m each the other day. it was a blast from the past!
I just felt like sharing that with someone. and since we're all babbling on in this thread, ...well..
carry on :) vk
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