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Ship Design and Appearance Changes

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Kabantik Caldari Demon Theory UNLeashed Legion	Posted - 2008.10.18 07:18:00 - [1] CCP developers this is a simple design change that would have an unbelievably profitable outcome and would earn the eternal appreciation on the EVE player base for many years. Suggestion #1 Please make all ships in EVE symmetrical especially Gallante and Caldari ships (like the raven) Suggestion #2 Please make all the titans fly in the correct direction, simply put all the engines on the other side of the ship and run them the other way around Suggestion #3 Remove "thrusters" and replace them with some sort of sci fi physics manipulator modules because thrusters in space are inefficient and when you have 20 of them on say a ferrox it is very unappealing. Thank you for your time
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2008.10.18 11:43:00 - [2] 1. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 2. There are much bigger issues with Titans than which side is front. 3. Turn of thruster effects, forgot the shortcut. Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
ShadowDraqon Awesome Industries Group	Posted - 2008.10.18 12:16:00 - [3] 1. don't be mean to the artists and graphics designers, and symmetry is way overrated. 2. don't be mean to the artists and graphics designers, and they're already flying i the right direction (have you ever even seen a titan?) 3.a) thrusters are cool. 3.b) with sci-fi device you'd get bunches of people complaining that the ships moving without any cause looks unrealistic. Originally by: Kabantik an unbelievably profitable outcome and would earn the eternal appreciation on the EVE player base for many years. i don't think it would. i do in fact think you'd get whinage threads by the dozen. ____________________ I had a sig here, but I NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM nommed it...
Kabantik Caldari Demon Theory UNLeashed Legion	Posted - 2008.10.24 05:52:00 - [4] Redone, less aggressive, more suggestive, more about caldari ships which have the most severe issues. I'll probably change it even more later
Mithfindel Gallente Gariushi Foundation	Posted - 2008.10.24 06:43:00 - [5] According to EVE Art book, the design of the ships is purposefully steered away from traditional "aerodynamic" and symmetric "starfighter" shapes.
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2008.10.24 09:08:00 - [6] Caldari ship designs are specifically tailored to that appearance, as are all the other races. They're designed apparently to look the park (sorta). Designed to be functional, everything else is a waste of recources. (for a capitalistic nation like the Caldari State, they'd be more interested in what the ship could do, than what it looks like). Although I do agree with the Erebus flying the other way, it was one thing I used to bang on about when I was in DEVTH. Fake Edit: Although I just spotted the term 'natural beauty of larger ships like battleships. (like the raven)' and i'm not too sure whether you're trolling or not now.
Kabantik Caldari Demon Theory UNLeashed Legion	Posted - 2008.10.25 21:21:00 - [7] Originally by: Irida Mershkov Caldari ship designs are specifically tailored to that appearance, as are all the other races. They're designed apparently to look the park (sorta). Designed to be functional, everything else is a waste of recources. (for a capitalistic nation like the Caldari State, they'd be more interested in what the ship could do, than what it looks like). Although I do agree with the Erebus flying the other way, it was one thing I used to bang on about when I was in DEVTH. Fake Edit: Although I just spotted the term 'natural beauty of larger ships like battleships. (like the raven)' and i'm not too sure whether you're trolling or not now. Many of the ships have very fine detailing and a lot of effort has been placed into the design of ships, the position of windows and modules and the over all feel of battleships is good but when you pair it with the severe asymmetry it really takes away from that majestic, epic feel... BTW i'm in Demon Theory atm lol
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.12.26 22:48:00 - [8] Gallente Space is symmetrical. It scares me. I like my flying brick piles. From the Dragon-box (Moa) to the Scorp. They're fine.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities	Posted - 2008.12.27 00:40:00 - [9] Symmetry is overrated. ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well "Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"
Felonious Pirate The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.27 07:57:00 - [10] Edited by: Felonious Pirate on 27/12/2008 07:57:04 I agree with the OP, the current Caldari and Gallente and ESPECIALLY THE AMARR MS are fugly because of the asymmetrical designs, CCP please fix it thanks Recruitment Open

Jin Labarre	Posted - 2008.12.27 08:58:00 - [11] I would have preferred Caldari ships to be more symmetrical, but they are not and that's the way it is. The newer Caldari ships ARE mostly symmetrical, so I guess there has been a shift in paradigm with Caldari engineers.
Iron Soldiers	Posted - 2008.12.27 11:54:00 - [12] Edited by: Iron Soldiers on 27/12/2008 11:56:05 i think all races nee a little revamping because so many ships have extreemly off canter, would like to see more symmetrical ships many ships have bulged outparts of the ship what severly would reduce the fire ark if you could not fire through own ship. my biggest issue is that on many ships if you look at each design you can find some very weak points that if you had a well placed volly of fire power you could literly seperate the ship with ease and often at critical points. example the black bird there is only 1 point in front of ship where left side of ship connects to right side of ship. i would guess only 2% of the ships hull connect these 2 halfs together. i would tell you this much if that ship entered an atmasphere that ship would rip apart because that tiny bit of structure could not hold 2 large piecies like that together. last i notice on many ships the engins or thrusters often poorly placed on ships where if you think about it that thruster way out on that wing with no counter balance truster would send the ship into a siral. to fix this you may wanna either counter the truster turn only wing thruster off if warping show larger engines center mass and tiny engines outward from main hull rokh is by far the most struturly perfect ship because you dont have any parts of the ship that can be blasted off very easy some more ships off the top of my head that look structuly sound vexor thorax rupture hurricain drake ferox most all amarr ships list of ships that just looks like it would break in half on its own poor construction scorpian black bird most caldari ships tempest Bellicose Exequror Celestis
Kaldoreign	Posted - 2008.12.27 12:23:00 - [13] I never liked Caldari design when I started playing EVE. Now I prefer them above all other ships, its not everything about symmetry. Since all races in Eve are 'aliens', their ships shouldn't look like 21th century airplanes.. I like them because they look strange, uncommon, special. And since there is no air in space, no worry about aerodinamycs ;) #2 It serves as tactical advantage, nerf it!
Chillshock	Posted - 2008.12.27 15:20:00 - [14] Actually it has been proven, that symmetry is a key behind the perceived beauty of things. It's not only found in humans but throughout all of nature where any "choices" are made. Symmetry=Beauty (Wikipedia) So yes, some ships may be asymmetric for their military purpose, because beauty was no part of the job description. But overall even warships and just about anything is made symmetrical. Not just for beauty but because it's more practical, too: - Finding the center of a spaceship to get proper handling (turning, acceleration,...) - If planetary interaction ever comes into play: a Crow would just do a pwetty little flat-spin to death.... - Protection: Good shapes are more sturdy. the tempest ist NOT A WARSHIP! (the phoon may be, maelstrom = win) I am impressed by the designers of eve to have created such destinct racial designs. bows I am a little sad about not respecting the rules that nature placed upon us humans: "If you want something to look good, make it symmetrical or better have a damn good reason for it not to be!"
Manos Soban	Posted - 2008.12.27 18:04:00 - [15] Edited by: Manos Soban on 27/12/2008 18:04:48 Originally by: Tarron Sarek Symmetry is overrated. This! I like our ships the way they are. WTF? We are in space. Come on people, find a new ways of art and variety in your life. Besides, Ships in EvE are not conventional and... i like that perspective. Give us more, dear designers. Implement your most crazy ideas of art trends.
Nicoli Voldkif Caelli-Merced INC. Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.12.27 18:11:00 - [16] Originally by: Iron Soldiers Edited by: Iron Soldiers on 27/12/2008 11:56:05 my biggest issue is that on many ships if you look at each design you can find some very weak points that if you had a well placed volly of fire power you could literly seperate the ship with ease and often at critical points. example the black bird there is only 1 point in front of ship where left side of ship connects to right side of ship. i would guess only 2% of the ships hull connect these 2 halves together. You would be surprised at just how strong those connections could be. Generally speaking it will be more and more common for most military vehicles/ships to be designed with a skeleton type construction system where the ship has a reinforced metal structure that supports a external hull with minimum structural integrity requirements. The other problem with saying thrusters are not counter balanced is a common mistake because well we just don't know where the center of gravity/mass is for a specific ship. One of my projects in my one material sciences class was to create a optical impossibility physics display basically something that looks like it shouldn't be that way. I built a foot long metal bar with 2 2"x2"x2" solid steel boxes on each end and perfectly balanced it 3" from one of the boxes. What you couldn't see was that the steel was just a casing for a different internal metal, well one side had liquid mercury in it. We don't know the internal ship layout and as such we don't know why the ships are designed like that and where the mass of the ships are placed.
Ineeda Bejay	Posted - 2008.12.28 20:45:00 - [17] i used to work for nassco in san diego a ship building company and as an auto cad draftsman for R&D i have to say not many of eves ships are that attractive nor will they work in a stresfull enviroment. in space your ship is only a matter of a few grams in weight but to propell a ship from a stand still to warp speed??? not possible by design because even tho the ship is nearly weightless in space providing each gravotational pull the ship passes by can cause the ship stresfull flexing. warp speed is not possible and some say it may be possible some say never but i tell you this moving something so drasticly will casuse a diference in mass and mass is what creates gravitation. the faster something goes the more pull it has. if you seen the matrix movie where neo has cars flying through air after him its not because of air displacement it is because he is gaining mass and drawing those items to him. our sea ferring ships are not limited on speed because the water slowes it down to much the ships are speed rated by design smaler ships are faster and dynamic to reduce flexing and larger ships are weaker making them flex more meaning at higher speds could rip the ship to pieaces. because this is a game and there are few but still many defiant laws being broken i can understand but if you want to have plannet combat and or what ever is in store you need ships that can adversly stand up to the stress of mass vs gravitaional pull a ships shilds or armor will not protect its vulnerable weak points from the laws of physics if and when this happend i believe the artist will need to paint the bottom of every ship to glow as an anti grav system should be apearant or ships will require to fly nose up and thrusters down lol for the do not have any sort of lift design. all eve ships will never fly in an atmosphere without anti grav or we will have to give more ships air plain designs do achieve lift
big miker Minmatar Order of Anarchy	Posted - 2008.12.28 23:39:00 - [18] This is how eve is, for many years... If you dislike the models, fine, but don't change them becuase you don't like them. Imo the ships are fine. If you want symmetrical ships play other games, but don't touch these very original models. This is how eve is, live with it. big miker
TheFamished	Posted - 2008.12.29 05:49:00 - [19] I do to some point agree with Kabantik on this one, some of the ships in the game are absolutely ****ed, the MOA, the Raven, The AEON.... Gawd don't get me started, and the scorpion too, Mini ships are different I can deal with them because their race is BASED on IMPROVISATION, the others are about GLORY, and IMAGE. Think about a US Navy Nimitz class Air Craft Carrier, it's not perfectly symmetrical because you have the bridge and the flight deck separated however it maintains a very distinct hull shape that is relatively balanced, the raven looks like ** with it's gimped "wing" and the scorpion?...... on the titan's idea I couldn't agree more in fact a lot of ships would look better with their "bulk" at the back it would abide by physical laws better too as having weight on the end of a lever opposing the Fi would increase the stress on the lever and the fulcrum point significantly.
AccesiViale Gallente Vox de Lucis	Posted - 2008.12.29 08:07:00 - [20] granted i think the rokh is the best looking caldari ship and i enjoy myself some symmetry...my problem with caldari design is the size... Caldari ships are so small compared to others yet move the slowest and have the largest sigs. What gives... if they are going to move that slow, wouldnt you think it would be because they are large clunkly... not tiny... just my two cents... i guess my thoughts are mostly applied to caldari battleships since thats what i spend most my time looking at...just think they should be bigger. The sky was blue but there was no god.

Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2008.12.29 09:05:00 - [21] They just spent an ungodly amount of time redoing all the ship models for the premium graphics. I seriously doubt they are gonna spend any more time or money on it in the near future.
Nephilius Caldari General Taktiks and Holdings	Posted - 2008.12.29 19:16:00 - [22] Each race has a reason for making ships the way they do, some go for a more organic design, the Caldari prefer an assymetrical look to them. I admit, when I first started playing, I hated the look of them. But I broadened my horizons concerning the aesthetics of design. I suppose I could make more beefs if I wanted about the other races ships I have flown...the Slasher looks like a bug, the Incursus looks like a hastily designed knight jousting on a horse, a smoothed version of Atari-esque proportions. Even the Amarr shuttles look like the A-Wing fighters from Star Wars. As far as symmetry = beauty, I think that really only applies to people. Nobody told abstract artists that, at any rate. There is only a balance, but symmetry is sorely lacking in many, if not all, abstract arts. Yet they are highly sought after, and considered masterpieces by many. That is just one example that really puts to the test the idea that all things that are beautiful must be symmetrical. Of all the Caldari ships I have flown, the Bantam is probably the ugliest to me. It is rather symmetrical as well. Personally, I love the look of the Raven myself. Maybe I am the only one, but of all the things for CCP to worry about in this game, craft symmetry is pretty low on the list. I ate a Carebear once...couldn't quit farting rainbows for a month.
Nephilius Caldari General Taktiks and Holdings	Posted - 2008.12.29 19:28:00 - [23] Originally by: Ineeda Bejay in space your ship is only a matter of a few grams in weight but to propell a ship from a stand still to warp speed??? not possible by design because even tho the ship is nearly weightless in space providing each gravotational pull the ship passes by can cause the ship stresfull flexing. warp speed is not possible and some say it may be possible some say never but i tell you this moving something so drasticly will casuse a diference in mass and mass is what creates gravitation. the faster something goes the more pull it has. if you seen the matrix movie where neo has cars flying through air after him its not because of air displacement it is because he is gaining mass and drawing those items to him. a ships shilds or armor will not protect its vulnerable weak points from the laws of physics I have to take exception to what you are saying to just a couple of points that you make. Firstly, not trying to be a jackass, but your spelling is atrocious. Perhaps you could work where you said you did/do, but I don't know. Secondly, Neo pulling in all manner of cars and debris behind him was more likely caused by the effect of him tearing through the air at great speeds, creating both a wake and a vacuum behind him great enough to create a tornadic-like vortex behind him. An F1 tornado is capable of tossing cars around, so this is not out of the question. Of course, pure air friction should probably cause our hero to burst into flames as well, but its a movie. As for gravity and warp speed, many of the theories I have seen have discussed creating gravity wells in front of the ship. This is intended to both make warp capable and to negate the inertial problem of turning everyone inside the ship into walljam. No, we don't have a way to make ships travel at such high speeds, but mainly because the whole matter/energy problem hasn't been solved yet. Travelling at light speed takes way more fuel than any ship is capable of carrying right now, so while it isn't possible now, that doesn't mean it will never be in the far distant future. As for planetary combat, taking a really big ship into the atmosphere of a planet like earth would be foolish in the first place, symmetrical or not. Anything above BC size would be risking its existence period, and as you said, should not be viable. So we agree there at least. Lastly, its a game. Suspend disbelief or you will be miserable. I ate a Carebear once...couldn't quit farting rainbows for a month.
Wrangler Al	Posted - 2008.12.29 21:47:00 - [24] The best looking caldari ships are the Rokh and the CN Hookbill. The worst is the Moa (it really needs a few tweeks to make it look less of a brick) It made me think of a cross between Serenity from firefly and a Dino-Transformer from the 80's. Many hate the Raven but it has grown on me... I think if it was made symetrical it would be a ST Klingon Warbird...(and I think thats trademarked) But it still could use bigger engines for a ship that size and maby some launcher pods/tubes on it like they added to the stealth bomber :) Signature pic exceeds the size limit. ~WeatherMan
el caido	Posted - 2008.12.29 22:06:00 - [25] Complaints about ship symmetry? Seriously? If anything, we should get the 'new models' for HICtors and such that we were promised instead of simple reskins of existing models. Or fix the texture jobs that have been borked for some time (wtfdominix). But making everything symmetrical is just a freaking waste of time.
KhaelaMensha Khaine Minmatar Bladerunners KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.31 05:26:00 - [26] Edited by: KhaelaMensha Khaine on 31/12/2008 05:27:10 Originally by: el caido Complaints about ship symmetry? Seriously? If anything, we should get the 'new models' for HICtors and such that we were promised instead of simple reskins of existing models. Or fix the texture jobs that have been borked for some time (wtfdominix). But making everything symmetrical is just a freaking waste of time. This. I share a lot of people's feelings about the ugliness of many of EvE's ships but with T3 finally on the horizon and a plethora of well know models already in-game, we don't need to change what isn't broken. As a compromise, perhaps new models for the newer classes should be introduced which could be more symmetrical all round. I really felt cheated when the tier 2 BC, the EAS and the HICs were all introduced with the same old tired skins we have already. This was repeated with the Maruaders and Black Ops. New ships deserve new models. CCP failed in a big way by not providing them.
m3talc0re X Caldari Heavens Gate Consortium	Posted - 2008.12.31 05:54:00 - [27] You know, I used to hate the way our ships looked as well, but after a while, I think they've actually kinda grown on me a bit. Go figure. Though, to be honest, my favorite ship model is the Rokh... Along the terms of this thread though, I would like to see the size of our ships fixed.. That and "what they can do" needs to be fixed and un-nerfed from hell.. -------------------------- Wait, what now? Yes, I was Anubis Assassin, this will be my new main XD
Xinala Breez	Posted - 2008.12.31 11:45:00 - [28] i have hear and watch youtube video of ccp descuss thier pride for being the more realistic mmorpg and that ther working on many things to bring even more realism to the game if you do not want to fly in a real world online game but rather play a fantacy shoot em up game your going to be disapointed soon enough. this game is perdy darn on point in realism. a few things like fire through solid objects and the sort is yet to be work on to make it as real as the air you breath. i cant wait right now its the most real game i know but still to fantacy for me as realism is the goal here. i say do not cast out the hard work required to redesign ships for eve said if we want it they will make it ours... lot of us want new ship designs with symmetry and if they see it they will provide.
Felonious Pirate Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.01 19:59:00 - [29] I see that the middle ground in the argument is this, people want symmerty but they don't want to change the current ships, it seems as though T3 ships will be the perfect deployment of symmetrical ships, perhaps that is why they will be more powerful hehe


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