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A mate is having a problem and doesnt want himself to be known

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Arteriamus Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.10.19 17:40:00 - [1] Edited by: Arteriamus on 19/10/2008 17:43:24 he tells me that he is having problem with a senior GM and doesnt know where to go. Does anyone know where? Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky The reason you trained Caldari for missions was so you don't have to think. . .don't start now.
Monkey Saturday Unknown Soldiers Soldiers Of New Eve	Posted - 2008.10.19 18:01:00 - [2] What kind of problem is he having? If he won't give him his ship back because of a client-side error (disconnect, lag, etc...) then the gm is just doing his/her job. If there is an honest abuse of GM power you should report it to [email protected] Word of caution though, if its just a denied reimbursement request or something, you really don't want to go saying a GM is harassing you...er...your friend Thanks for the Maulus BPO nerf! :D
Arteriamus Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.10.19 18:36:00 - [3] heh no worries, it isnt me, and it isnt a server side issue Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky The reason you trained Caldari for missions was so you don't have to think. . .don't start now.
Estel Arador Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.19 19:21:00 - [4] Just a word of warning: Most posts on these forums about a "friend" being mistreated actually turn out to be a "friend" being a liar.
Asestorian Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.10.19 19:50:00 - [5] If it turns out to be about ISK, it's probably him lying. But if there is an actual problem, definitely get in contact with internal affairs and have them investigate it to make sure nothing fishy is going on. --- Originally by: CCP Atropos Destiny Balls
GPszith Gallente Gypsy Productions	Posted - 2008.10.20 05:29:00 - [6] Originally by: Estel Arador Just a word of warning: Most posts on these forums about a "friend" being mistreated actually turn out to be a "friend" being a liar. QFT That's pretty common in more than just this game. Somewhat like the check's in the mail.:P -------------------------------------------------- -GPszith wtb a sig
NereSky Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.20 06:11:00 - [7] Be very careful 1)Reporting a GM to internal affairs for the wrong reason could have a negative reaction to your friend 2)Tbh your friend will need possibley to petition or file a complaint through a petition although your friend will never know whats gonna happen of if its even read 3)Best not come to the forums with this the flame thrwers will note it 4)I got told once by a GM 'we can do what we like its our game' so basically what ever your friend does will have no meaning Tell ur friend to suck it up, forgot whats happened else he may end up on 'the list'.
Leana Darkrider Daedalus industries Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.10.20 06:58:00 - [8] Originally by: NereSky Tell ur friend to suck it up, forgot whats happened else he may end up on 'the list'. the list, that sounds scary :) Is there such a blacklist of horrible eve players? Not to mention the isk farmers
Ralara Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.20 08:11:00 - [9] A senior GM's word is normally final. If you suspect an abuse of power (and this has to be something serious; like spawning his friends BPOs or something like that... or they're refusing to help your friends "because he's in an alliance I'm at war with" etc) then you can e-mail internal affairs. If it's just that your friend doesn't like the ruling; tough luck to your friend. As others have said, do not e-mail internal affairs if it's something like reimbursement as: 1) Internal affairs do not cover this; your e-mail will likely just get deleted 2) It's a waste of time for everyone involved 3) I am not sure but there may be penalties for raising "false" accusations or situations through internal affairs. --
Baka Lakadaka Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.10.20 08:35:00 - [10] Frankly, some of the advice given so far just isn't credible to me. Anyone can and should, as a paying customer, be able to raise issues with customer service. If you don't get the answer you were looking for, again as a paying customer, you have a right to appeal to a higher authority. If you still suspect something isn't right, you have a right to complain about that to the internal affairs department. They will take a look and have the right to act on it or tell you no, your complaint is dismissed. At which point you either suck it up and continue or you quit the game. CCP are in this to make money, it's business, they're not in it to victimise people for making a complaint and would frown on any employee tarnishing their reputation, in the same way as any other business. ______________________ Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University. Now Recruiting.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.10.20 09:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Baka Lakadaka Frankly, some of the advice given so far just isn't credible to me. Anyone can and should, as a paying customer, be able to raise issues with customer service. If you don't get the answer you were looking for, again as a paying customer, you have a right to appeal to a higher authority. If you still suspect something isn't right, you have a right to complain about that to the internal affairs department. They will take a look and have the right to act on it or tell you no, your complaint is dismissed. At which point you either suck it up and continue or you quit the game. CCP are in this to make money, it's business, they're not in it to victimise people for making a complaint and would frown on any employee tarnishing their reputation, in the same way as any other business. Tue, but lets be honest. "A friend" 9 times out of 10 doesn't exist, and in 99.9% of the cases it ends up the customer not grasping/being happy about reimbursement or something to do with RMT. It mostly turns out the person didn't quite tell the whole truth or he was outright lying. If you're not happy with the outcome of a petition you can have it escalated, it must be something bloody serious to have that escalated again (and I don't mean customer ignorance). However, wanting to raise an issue over a CCP emplyee conduct you better have a good story and some proper evidence.
Estel Arador Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.20 09:34:00 - [12] Originally by: Baka Lakadaka Frankly, some of the advice given so far just isn't credible to me. Anyone can and should, as a paying customer, be able to raise issues with customer service. If you don't get the answer you were looking for, again as a paying customer, you have a right to appeal to a higher authority. If you still suspect something isn't right, you have a right to complain about that to the internal affairs department. They will take a look and have the right to act on it or tell you no, your complaint is dismissed. At which point you either suck it up and continue or you quit the game. This is incorrect. If you disagree with a petition response (with reason) you can escalate the petition to a senior GM. The response of the senior GM is final. Only if a (senior) GM abused his position should internal affairs be contacted - internal affairs is not a second appeal possibility (as could be interpreted from your post). Knowledgebase article
Azeryn	Posted - 2008.10.20 10:32:00 - [13] Originally by: Baka Lakadaka CCP are in this to make money, it's business, they're not in it to victimise people for making a complaint and would frown on any employee tarnishing their reputation, in the same way as any other business. While everything you said in your post is how it should be, everybody who has been involved in MMORPG for a few years knows that in this businness things are a lot different. You are basically loaned everything you use inside a virtual world (characters, game money, game assets, etc...) and you accept an EULA that basically states that the game manufacturer can decide at any time you are doing something wrong and ban you "just because". They can even refuse to tell you why they are banning you, stating that doing so they would help exploiters know how they can catch them. Frankly I do not think there are many more businesses where the "paying customer" is more defenseless. You either "suck it up" or you just pass the time filing petition after petition. Even if your account is finally reinstated, it is going to take months, wich means your friends will either have forgotten about you, or their progress into the game will have opened a chasm between you and them, meaning you will not just "hop in" like nothing happened anyway. Sure, a concerted campaign promoted by many dissatisfied customers could tarnish any game producer's reputation enough to cause a collapse of subscriptions, but in practice this has never happened, since most MMO gamers are too emo anyway, so nobody really listens to the many sad stories. Most of the sad stories are manufactured anyway, as a cover up for actual cheating that deserved a ban in the first place. So no, I do not think a MMO player has the same chances of a customer of almost any other service out there. However, I also think that only a very small number of compliants are legitimate. If the OP thinks his friend has a solid case they should surely petition CCP through that email address: just do not get your hopes up, since even if you are right, they can still tell you "you are wrong" and in the end you will not be able to do anything about it.
Flash Bombardo Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.20 10:41:00 - [14] Stay out of it. Make him deal with it, sh1t sticks, don't get in the firing line.
Tiger313 313th Squadron	Posted - 2008.10.20 11:10:00 - [15] Making a false accusation of a (senior) GM abusing his/her powers is a bannable offence. So better be veeeery certain of your case before contacting internal affairs I'd say... and yeah, if "your friend" has issues, best not get in the line of fire cause you so don't want to get caught in the middle and get shafted.
Ralara Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.20 12:03:00 - [16] Well yeah the question's been answered now anyway: If it's a normal petition and you're not happy with the senior GM's response, unfortunately you're out of luck; the Senior GM's have the final word in these matters. If you believe the GM or SGM is abusing their position for some reason, then by all means report it to the Internal Affairs department; however this is not to be used to escallate a petition you're not happy with when a SGM has already given you the answer.
Baka Lakadaka Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.10.20 12:36:00 - [17] Originally by: Estel Arador Originally by: Baka Lakadaka Frankly, some of the advice given so far just isn't credible to me. Anyone can and should, as a paying customer, be able to raise issues with customer service. If you don't get the answer you were looking for, again as a paying customer, you have a right to appeal to a higher authority. If you still suspect something isn't right, you have a right to complain about that to the internal affairs department. They will take a look and have the right to act on it or tell you no, your complaint is dismissed. At which point you either suck it up and continue or you quit the game. This is incorrect. If you disagree with a petition response (with reason) you can escalate the petition to a senior GM. The response of the senior GM is final. Only if a (senior) GM abused his position should internal affairs be contacted - internal affairs is not a second appeal possibility (as could be interpreted from your post). Knowledgebase article You can always file a complaint, it's only if you make a false complaint...i.e. you lie, you fabricate evidence, etc. that you can be banned. You have the same rights as a consumer as with any other business. I could have perhaps been clearer by "not right" I meant impropriety. I can now see that this might have been interpreted as a further escalation......the senior GMs do have final say, but that doesn't stop anyone from making a further complaint. As with any complaint, you need to have a case for it to be successful. ______________________ Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University. Now Recruiting.
Ralara Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.20 12:38:00 - [18] Originally by: Baka Lakadaka Originally by: Estel Arador Originally by: Baka Lakadaka Frankly, some of the advice given so far just isn't credible to me. Anyone can and should, as a paying customer, be able to raise issues with customer service. If you don't get the answer you were looking for, again as a paying customer, you have a right to appeal to a higher authority. If you still suspect something isn't right, you have a right to complain about that to the internal affairs department. They will take a look and have the right to act on it or tell you no, your complaint is dismissed. At which point you either suck it up and continue or you quit the game. This is incorrect. If you disagree with a petition response (with reason) you can escalate the petition to a senior GM. The response of the senior GM is final. Only if a (senior) GM abused his position should internal affairs be contacted - internal affairs is not a second appeal possibility (as could be interpreted from your post). Knowledgebase article You can always file a complaint, it's only if you make a false complaint...i.e. you lie, you fabricate evidence, etc. that you can be banned. You have the same rights as a consumer as with any other business. I could have perhaps been clearer by "not right" I meant impropriety. I can now see that this might have been interpreted as a further escalation......the senior GMs do have final say, but that doesn't stop anyone from making a further complaint. As with any complaint, you need to have a case for it to be successful. You can file a complaint, but I think that'd be better sending it to [email protected] and asking for a senior employee to look at it rather than internal affairs. At least, that's what I'd do if it got to that point. I'll report this thread and get a mod to look and answer as there seems to be some confusion regarding this matter. --
Baka Lakadaka Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.10.20 12:51:00 - [19] Originally by: Ralara I'll report this thread and get a mod to look and answer as there seems to be some confusion regarding this matter. Good Plan. I'd like to see the response. ______________________ Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University. Now Recruiting.
Jethro Jechonias Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.10.20 14:26:00 - [20] Originally by: Ralara If you believe the GM or SGM is abusing their position for some reason, then by all means report it to the Internal Affairs department; however this is not to be used to escallate a petition you're not happy with when a SGM has already given you the answer. AFAIK, this is correct. Internal affairs is for dealing with employees, be they GM's, Dev, or others abusing their position as employees. If you need to escallate a petition above a Senior GM, then you will need to do so the same way that you escallated from a regular GM to a Senior GM: ask for and justify the escallation within the petition. If you have a valid reason for escallation, then the Senior GM will consult with a Lead GM. Between the two of them they will decide if your petition should be escallated, if the Senior GM is able to handle it with direction from the Lead GM, or if your request is unreasonable. From what I know, that is the end of the line: if CCP can fix it, the Lead GM will make it happen. I have had only one petition escallated to that point. It was a case where my characters were missing a skill at creation. During the escallation process, there was some confusion over which skill was missing. The developer documentation said it was the wrong skill and that it had always been that skill. When I pointed out that there documentation was inaccurate, by referencing the historical data dumps, my petition was escallated to a Lead GM. Because I kept my requests reasonable, the Lead GM did everything that I asked to repair both the missing skill and the "damage" cause by the excessive delay in handling the petition because of the mistake on their end. Through out the process they remained professional. Although CCP's customer service may not always be prompt, I have not found it lacking in any other reasonable expectation.

GM Zhainius Amarr Game Masters	Posted - 2008.10.21 01:46:00 - [21] Just to clarify, please don't send a message to Internal Affairs if you disagree with a senior GM. Internal affairs is whom you should contact if you have evidence a CCP employee has abused their position, they do not deal with petitions. If you disagree with a senior GM's decision, the best thing to do is to ask for a different senior to look in to the case. --- GM Zhainius EVE Online Customer Support CCP Games


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