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How many chemists have we got?

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Dantes Revenge Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.20 16:34:00 - [1] Does anyone know chemistry well enough to resolve an arguement? A few of us were talking about chemistry and someone said that there are common drugs that can basically destroy the higher brain functions, leaving the basic functions alone. A kind of mind eraser that wipes everything we have learned so anyone taking it is left as little more than a newborn baby. Most of us said it was not possible without detroying the whole brain which would cause immediate death. We said you could never have a drug that can target only certain synapses and render them inert because all synapses, for higher or lower brain functions are the same. Is there actually common drugs that can leave you as little more than a drooling idiot without actually killing you? I doubt it but I thought I'd ask if someone here with more knowledge of chemistry can give an answer. -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken.
Last Wolf Umbra Wing	Posted - 2008.10.20 16:37:00 - [2] You could always feed them a car crash and hope for the best(worst). As far as an actual drug... I got a 61.7 in Chemistry my Freshman year of collage, so I'm the last one to ask __________________________________________________________ Originally by: Liang Nuren wrong forum isroy i am vjery drunm
Unity Love Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.20 16:41:00 - [3] I'm sure you could bio-manufacture an enzyme which would destroy the areas of the brain from which the higher functions come from. Whether you could do this and leave the patient alive is another question.
Nol Agnot Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.10.20 16:44:00 - [4] Trying to settle an argument with the husband? Killing the mind should legally constitute murder in my mind, I'm guessing this is what you're going for, killing someone but escaping the actual murder charge. Delenda est achura.
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.10.20 16:49:00 - [5] It might be possible, but I don't know of the top of my head if the higher brain areas have a distinctly different chemical makeup than the lower areas, if they do, it would be quite possible to make something to target that specifically, genetically it's probably possible too, but again you'd need a marker to focus your attack on. Alzheimers disease pretty much does the job for you though, but inducing it is a very different matter, it relies on defect proteins to get the job done afteral.
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2008.10.20 16:50:00 - [6] if you mean destroying those functions permanently, no there is no known substance that does that. but temporarily until the drug wears off? plenty
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.10.20 17:00:00 - [7] You might find this interesting. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
The TX Gallente Pulsar Combat Supplies Alternative Realities	Posted - 2008.10.20 17:03:00 - [8] I'm already a drooling idiot, so count me out of the guinea-pig list for this experiment. -------------------- [Signature] [/Signature]
Great Artista Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.10.20 17:09:00 - [9] Well there is at least Mercury, Scopolamine and MPTP. If all fails and you're still alive, try LSD. (don't.) _______ ◕◡◕
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2008.10.20 17:11:00 - [10] Originally by: Great Artista Well there is at least Mercury, Scopolamine and MPTP. If all fails and you're still alive, try LSD. (don't.) they don't achieve those effects, especially not LSD which is pretty much non-toxic.
Great Artista Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.10.20 17:20:00 - [11] Mercury does inflict memory damage, though the point is moot as its toxic. Sco only affects short term memory and I can't even remember how, its been years since I read about this. LSD is/was used in some experiments to ease painfull experiences of the youth. MPTP causes parkinsons. So yeah, you'll be left as a veggie, if you don't die. _______ ◕◡◕
Fallen Elite Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2008.10.20 17:27:00 - [12] Originally by: Dantes Revenge Does anyone know chemistry well enough to resolve an arguement? A few of us were talking about chemistry and someone said that there are common drugs that can basically destroy the higher brain functions, leaving the basic functions alone. A kind of mind eraser that wipes everything we have learned so anyone taking it is left as little more than a newborn baby. Most of us said it was not possible without detroying the whole brain which would cause immediate death. We said you could never have a drug that can target only certain synapses and render them inert because all synapses, for higher or lower brain functions are the same. Is there actually common drugs that can leave you as little more than a drooling idiot without actually killing you? I doubt it but I thought I'd ask if someone here with more knowledge of chemistry can give an answer. Dementia is evidence enough that you can lose Higher brain function and leave the lower processes alone, manufacturing a drug to mimick it is only a matter of time and money. ------
Revonanist	Posted - 2008.10.20 17:38:00 - [13] liquid cosh? it basically turned people into drooling idiots, administered in mental institutions and prisons until it was banned in the 80's
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.10.20 17:52:00 - [14] Yeah it's called Meth. I've got a friend who no longer functions like an average person having ****ed his brains up and put a few holes in it after his meth episode (among only god knows whatever else he put in his system). For 'legal' drugs there's rumors of Thorazine in bad/high doses pulling it off as well.
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.20 19:18:00 - [15] Edited by: Intense Thinker on 20/10/2008 19:18:18 If medicines fail... there's always lobotomy --------------------- It's me! Your lovable forum warrior!!!
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Shadow Company Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.20 19:48:00 - [16] Neither Alzheimers or Meth targets higher brain functions specifically. You might have noticed that both Alzheimers patients and long term meth addicts can suffer from partial paralysis (If alzheimers disease runs its full course the terminal condition is that the patient loses the ability to breathe) and muscle control degradation in addition to effects related to higher brain-functions. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn.
Great Artista Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.10.21 00:47:00 - [17] Yeah, about the things I listed here, only thing really capable of achievieving that total memoryloss is MPTP. Years ago, some student somewhere, messed up MPPP (her0in -style drug) synth, got inflicted by this stuff and ended up with parkinson-alike symptoms; motoric and memory synapses locking up ect., he recovered though. This is the closest thing I can come up without any specific research on the subject (do your own homework :P) and its still WAY off from whats wanted. The other things also affect memory areas with various effects. Its at least a starting point if you want to look more into it. But I think its safe to say that tinkering with brainchemistry is very stupid idea. _______ ◕◡◕
DoctorColossal Pervius	Posted - 2008.10.21 01:04:00 - [18] I don't think there are any common drugs that specifically bring about this affect. I am sure it is possible though. It would have to avoid messing with the primitive hind brain / brain stem. That bit at the back above the neck which is the off switch - lights out completely if you mess with that.
Salva Cora Railgun Voodoo II	Posted - 2008.10.21 07:12:00 - [19] Alcohol
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.21 09:01:00 - [20] Something involving the suppression of certain neurotransmitters might work in some cases, but it's likely to be unreliable. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rhatar Khurin Minmatar Pilots Of Honour Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.21 10:47:00 - [21] I don't know about drugs. but if hypnotism actually works and can be made permanent that might work.
Nol Agnot Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.10.21 14:56:00 - [22] Originally by: Rhatar Khurin I don't know about drugs. but if hypnotism actually works and can be made permanent that might work. Hypnotism against your will is no longer hypnotism, it's a long and drawn out process called brainwashing. Delenda est achura.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.10.21 16:30:00 - [23] I bet no-one read my linky. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Shadow Company Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.21 16:44:00 - [24] Originally by: Avon I bet no-one read my linky. I did. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn.
Dantes Revenge Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.21 16:54:00 - [25] Thanks for the replies. I can pretty much deduce that, apart from short term effects of things like alcohol etc, there is nothing that will specifically target those areas permanently so he was just spouting BS really. He said it was a common drug. Although a lot of drugs used by addicts can do serious harm to the brain, it isn't specific. Ususally, the most noticeable effect on addicts of any drug is the childish behaviour, the need to go one better so if you say you have a degree, they insist they have two or more etc. This wears off eventually if the addict comes off drugs though. I notice a lot of drug users still have memory problems long after they've given up drugs and this applies even to the "soft" drugs like cannabis and even alcohol etc for someone who has been a heavy user. Diseases like Alzheimers etc only initially affect memory but the most lethal aspect of this disease is the fact that someone can actually "forget" to breathe in the most advanced stages. My grandmother died of this. In the end, she kept appearing to hold her breath for a while and then suddenly take a deep breath and then continue to breathe normally, I believe they call it Apnea. She went to bed one night and just stopped breathing altogether. Toward the end, she had problems walking and would constantly overbalance and fall for no reason. The doc said you have to learn how to walk and it is part of your memory so if you forget how to maintain your balance, you simply fall over. It was all part of this insidious disease. I learned a lot about the disease while my grandmother had it. The most frightening part to me is that it's a genetic trait so it could hit me as well. -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken.
Taedrin Gallente Celestial Ascension Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.10.21 18:41:00 - [26] A nerve is a nerve. If a drug were to be manufactured that only targeted certain sections of the brain, it would have to rely on using nerve receptors to identify which nerves to attack. There are already drugs which target certain types of neurons. For example, delta-9-tetrahydrocabbinol (THC) targets Anandamide receptors, and binds to these receptors stronger than normal. However, this is only part of the problem, as you have to figure out: a) Which receptors are found only on neurons related to higher brain functions (which may not exist. You will most likely get collateral damage from at least some lower brain functions) b) Find a chemical which targets these receptors c) Alter said chemical such that it continues to target those receptors, but also does irreversible damage to the neuron. If you wanted to do this, you would need to be well versed in chemistry, medicine and biology.

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