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Headerman
Quovis
CORE Alliance
872
   |
Posted - 2012.04.02 00:30:00 -
[31] - Quote
2/10
The Apostle : I want a kangeroo
Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians
Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US?
Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why? |
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
587
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 11:37:00 -
[32] - Quote
We've been over this before.
Yes, your EFT DPS is lower, but with HMLs, you're hitting out past 90km+, not having to worry about optimal/falloff, you don't have to worry about ships getting under your guns, or screwing up your tracking while MWDing around targets. Meanwhile, when fitting your long range weapons, you still have plenty of PG left for your tank + prop.
So yes, your paper DPS isn't that great, but you can apply it with ease further than any of the other battlecruisers, you can do it from range, and sport one of the beefiest sized tanks in your class.
If anything, CCP should nerf HML and buff HAMs. If people want to fire missiles from long range, then make them more fragile since they already have range helping their tank. And if they want to commit to a fight and brawl with HAMs, make it a bit easier for them to fit a tank so they don't DIAF.
Also, Ferox #1. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
688
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 11:55:00 -
[33] - Quote
Nerf drake  |
Karim alRashid
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
171
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 12:02:00 -
[34] - Quote
Well, I played a little game against me.
Put one alt in a pretty run of the mill HM Drake. Lock, press f1, go AFK.
On another alt I try to kill the drake with various other ships - AFs, HACs and BCs, except another drake.
Conclusion?
Drake is a bit too good. |
Keen Fallsword
The Scope
Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 12:11:00 -
[35] - Quote
Same thing with Shield tank VS Armor Tank - Shield got too many adventages when armor got only one sig radius with is as we can see with PERMA MWD drakes army not important at all. So yeah its very broken thats why CCP need to remap all ships and yeah it will be pain for some noobs. IMO |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
3216
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 12:31:00 -
[36] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:
If you nerf the drake in the way you propose it will lose its ability to do level 4 missions. It will be unable to solo pvp effectively, and HAM drake gangs will be a joke. But if you want to make only 3 races worth flying, go ahead.
Wrong, very wrong, and wrongest of all.
Any level 4 mission will be easily doable in the proposed drake, the only change will be that you'll have to fly the ship, rather than just warp in and sit there like a quadraplegic tortoise. In fact you'll be able to do missions significantly more efficiently, especially against Sansha, Blood Raider and Rogue Drone rats.
It'll be at least as effective at solo PvP as a Hurricane
A HAM NewDrakeGäó will be terrifyingly powerful.
Of course you know all this since you're a consisten troll, but in the interests of averting at least a few bites, I post the above.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
3216
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 12:32:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Changing the defense bonus for an offensive bonus is not a nerf. The Drake will still be bloody good at PVE, just not capable of soloing lvl 4 missions
Which L4 missions do you think you'd not be able to solo with the new drake?
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
ElQuirko
Gravit Negotii
Rogue Elements.
491
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 12:32:00 -
[38] - Quote
You're silly if you think that the drake isn't OP. Ever seen a drake gang or a drake blob?
If we distribute pictures of people, does that mean God can file copyright claims under SOPA? |
Dr Prometheus
Gears of Construction
Gears Confederation
57
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 12:33:00 -
[39] - Quote
I just wonder how a drake will look like without build in launchers. (I think it will look like a dog having his balls castrated.)
Dude, where is my Charon? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
3216
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 12:39:00 -
[40] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:You're silly if you think that the drake isn't OP. Ever seen a drake gang or a drake blob?
A ship being flown in "blobs" doesn't prove it's OP, it proves that it's useful as a fleet ship.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Daniel L'Siata
Echelon Conflict Resolution.
Psychotic Tendencies.
92
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 12:41:00 -
[41] - Quote
What do you mean nerf? The proposed changes make it hilariously awesome |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow
NightSong Directorate
87
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 14:46:00 -
[42] - Quote
Daniel L'Siata wrote:What do you mean nerf? The proposed changes make it hilariously awesome
A hilarious lossmail for sure.
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Jonah Gravenstein
94
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 15:34:00 -
[43] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Changing the defense bonus for an offensive bonus is not a nerf. The Drake will still be bloody good at PVE, just not capable of soloing lvl 4 missions Which L4 missions do you think you'd not be able to solo with the new drake?
I was going by it's current performance, it tanks fine in it's current state but the DPS is lacklustre in performance, looking at in other ways the increase in DPS should more than compensate for the slight drop in tank. I should really engage brain before engaging fingers 
War hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Enkryption
Intergalactic Pool Boys
5
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 16:17:00 -
[44] - Quote
Don't forget how slow the drake is and how big its sig is. It may have one of the biggest passive tanks but its also taking the most damage and doing the lowest. |
XIRUSPHERE
In Bacon We Trust
201
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 16:39:00 -
[45] - Quote
A nerf for the lazy and unimaginative perhaps, a buff for any tactical player and thinker most certainly. Trim the fat off this brick and put some teeth on it? Thank you can I have another.
The advantage of a bad memory is that one can enjoy the same good things for the first time several times.
One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear. |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae
ROMANIAN-LEGION
90
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 16:40:00 -
[46] - Quote
Sunviking wrote:At the end of the day, the Drake's shield resistance bonus results in it being over-tanked for it's ship class and in combat.
Caldari ships in general lack offensive capability in PvP, so it makes sense to swap the Shield Resistance bonus for a Missile Velocity bonus to boost offense.
The drake tank has nothing to do with it's bonus or anything else about the ship itself. The flaw is that recharge is all about time vs max hp. Because of this, the two LSE it can fit not only gives it the good EHP, but then it has a great passive recharge as well. So that is the issue:
Passive recharge mechanic.
Passive recharge needs to become peak hp per second. This means if you fit two LSE like is so common on a drake, you get no extra passive recharge, just more buffer. Like passive armor. Sig penalty instead of speed and maneuverability. Back in my day of L3 missions and the like, I flew proper damage drake, not slow dps afk drake. Good launcher set, lows with PDS an overdrive and ballistic controls. Mids I had usual T1 shield resist gear, prop mod and target painter. Damage was pretty good considering the range. I never trained HAMs so I can only assume it would be even better.
Again, change passive recharge mechanics, all fixed. |
Muestereate
Two Geezers in Space
41
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:42:00 -
[47] - Quote
Nerf Gallente, they are so ugly they NEED kicked to the curb |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
195
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:45:00 -
[48] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote:Sunviking wrote:At the end of the day, the Drake's shield resistance bonus results in it being over-tanked for it's ship class and in combat.
Caldari ships in general lack offensive capability in PvP, so it makes sense to swap the Shield Resistance bonus for a Missile Velocity bonus to boost offense. The drake tank has nothing to do with it's bonus or anything else about the ship itself. The flaw is that recharge is all about time vs max hp. Because of this, the two LSE it can fit not only gives it the good EHP, but then it has a great passive recharge as well. So that is the issue: Passive recharge mechanic. Passive recharge needs to become peak hp per second. This means if you fit two LSE like is so common on a drake, you get no extra passive recharge, just more buffer. Like passive armor. Sig penalty instead of speed and maneuverability. Back in my day of L3 missions and the like, I flew proper damage drake, not slow dps afk drake. Good launcher set, lows with PDS an overdrive and ballistic controls. Mids I had usual T1 shield resist gear, prop mod and target painter. Damage was pretty good considering the range. I never trained HAMs so I can only assume it would be even better. Again, change passive recharge mechanics, all fixed.
This is a genius post and I want to confirm that resistance has ZERO effect on ability to tank an alpha from an enemy fleet.
OMG not everybody uses Drakes to coast through level 3's?!?
Did I mention, GENIUS?
He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller.
-Darth Gustav's Axiom |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow
NightSong Directorate
88
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:46:00 -
[49] - Quote
Except that in the kind of pvp drakes are good for they rely on their buffer not their regen. This is because they can have 60k ehp buffers.
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5894
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:48:00 -
[50] - Quote
Confirming that the proposed Drake buff is indeed a buff.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Xercodo
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam
Dark Matter Coalition
990
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:48:00 -
[51] - Quote
sig
|
V
The Drake is a Lie |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae
ROMANIAN-LEGION
93
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:54:00 -
[52] - Quote
The pvp thing, I am still up in the air about that one. Sure they have the ehp, but it isn't that far off of other pvp battlecruisers. I have seen the drake fleets melt to any form of hellcat fleet. The drake fleet main advantage in my view was that it was lazy, just keep following one person and firing missiles so you don't have to care about range. Take the exact thing as a drake and give it guns, I doubt it would be as powerful, especially considering the sig size. They also are the most produced, making them cheap. Despite all the whining about missile nerfs, that is still a big reason they are used. At least to my view. It is the only serious advantage I see over other battlecruisers. |
Rimase
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:56:00 -
[53] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:It's not a nerf. It's not a buff. It's balance.
I like you. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
195
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 18:00:00 -
[54] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote:The pvp thing, I am still up in the air about that one. Sure they have the ehp, but it isn't that far off of other pvp battlecruisers. I have seen the drake fleets melt to any form of hellcat fleet. The drake fleet main advantage in my view was that it was lazy, just keep following one person and firing missiles so you don't have to care about range. Take the exact thing as a drake and give it guns, I doubt it would be as powerful, especially considering the sig size. They also are the most produced, making them cheap. Despite all the whining about missile nerfs, that is still a big reason they are used. At least to my view. It is the only serious advantage I see over other battlecruisers.
Let's see if you can point to another "PVP" battlecruiser that gets resistance bonuses, has 60k EHP, fires missiles, and doesn't need balancing.
That is all.
He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller.
-Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Zimmy Zeta
Battle Force Industries
Tactical Invader Syndicate
946
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 18:01:00 -
[55] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote:The pvp thing, I am still up in the air about that one. Sure they have the ehp, but it isn't that far off of other pvp battlecruisers. I have seen the drake fleets melt to any form of hellcat fleet.
But you do realize that the Hellcat is a tier 3 Battleship worth about 250 M ...and the drake just a 40 M Battelcruiser?
Of course drakes lose to a hellcat-fleet - everything else would be an outrage. But the fact alone that you need a specialized battleship setup to counter a specific BC shows that there is something terribly wrong with the drake....
-.- |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow
NightSong Directorate
88
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 18:02:00 -
[56] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:Markus Reese wrote:The pvp thing, I am still up in the air about that one. Sure they have the ehp, but it isn't that far off of other pvp battlecruisers. I have seen the drake fleets melt to any form of hellcat fleet. But you do realize that the Hellcat is a tier 3 Battleship worth about 250 M ...and the drake just a 40 M Battelcruiser? Of course drakes lose to a hellcat-fleet - everything else would be an outrage. But the fact alone that you need a specialized battleship setup to counter a specific BC shows that there is something terribly wrong with the drake....
Confirming ship size/price = victory and that bigger ships should always beat smaller ones
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1381
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 18:05:00 -
[57] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:masternerdguy wrote:
If you nerf the drake in the way you propose it will lose its ability to do level 4 missions. It will be unable to solo pvp effectively, and HAM drake gangs will be a joke. But if you want to make only 3 races worth flying, go ahead.
Wrong, very wrong, and wrongest of all. Any level 4 mission will be easily doable in the proposed drake, the only change will be that you'll have to fly the ship, rather than just warp in and sit there like a quadraplegic tortoise. In fact you'll be able to do missions significantly more efficiently, especially against Sansha, Blood Raider and Rogue Drone rats. It'll be at least as effective at solo PvP as a Hurricane A HAM NewDrakeGäó will be terrifyingly powerful. Of course you know all this since you're a consisten troll, but in the interests of averting at least a few bites, I post the above.
You see that post up there? That's truth. ^ look ^ See? |
Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
175
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 18:13:00 -
[58] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:Markus Reese wrote:The pvp thing, I am still up in the air about that one. Sure they have the ehp, but it isn't that far off of other pvp battlecruisers. I have seen the drake fleets melt to any form of hellcat fleet. But you do realize that the Hellcat is a tier 3 Battleship worth about 250 M ...and the drake just a 40 M Battelcruiser? Of course drakes lose to a hellcat-fleet - everything else would be an outrage. But the fact alone that you need a specialized battleship setup to counter a specific BC shows that there is something terribly wrong with the drake....
All you need is to break 600 dps to wear out the recharge rate and most BC's can do that easy. |
Zimmy Zeta
Battle Force Industries
Tactical Invader Syndicate
946
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 18:16:00 -
[59] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Zimmy Zeta wrote:Markus Reese wrote:The pvp thing, I am still up in the air about that one. Sure they have the ehp, but it isn't that far off of other pvp battlecruisers. I have seen the drake fleets melt to any form of hellcat fleet. But you do realize that the Hellcat is a tier 3 Battleship worth about 250 M ...and the drake just a 40 M Battelcruiser? Of course drakes lose to a hellcat-fleet - everything else would be an outrage. But the fact alone that you need a specialized battleship setup to counter a specific BC shows that there is something terribly wrong with the drake.... Confirming ship size/price = victory and that bigger ships should always beat smaller ones
Yes, indeed. If two fleets just stand still and duke it out (as the normal drake pilot does) the bigger ships should always win.
-.- |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow
NightSong Directorate
88
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 18:17:00 -
[60] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Yes, indeed. If two fleets just stand still and duke it out (as the normal drake pilot does) the bigger ships should always win.
Oh my. Has the community gotten this bad?
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
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