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Isk Sink: Ship Crew

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Brynhilda Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies. 91	Posted - 2012.04.01 21:10:00 - [1] - Quote Do you honestly think that you alone are piloting these massive mobile ships with everything at your finger tips? CCP did release a page on ship crews on ships including player ships which do have crews Now, I wonder. Who are these people? Where do they come from? Are they hobos that live in stations until you undock so you can just fill out numbers? I had an idea on how to make an isk sink as well as more dynamic POSes. You need a ship crew to watch and observe lesser parts of your ship and since you're a capsuleer, you need them to also have that technology and training First, you need fresh bodies. Not PI created bodies, actual living bodies that can think and do more than livestock. The most obvious start for these men and women would be from highsec stations and seeded sell orders but that's lame and could be a lot more dynamic and interesting. Plus, people out in Nullsec and wormholes will obviously need a source of crew because people don't just pop out of the air and grow up to an age where they can fly ships Introducing the two POS modules for getting fresh bodies. They act like Moon Harvesting Arrays but they don't need a target Recruitment Center: This POS mod will bring in a number of Recruits based on location. The Recruits will build up in the Recruitment Center before the center is linked to a Training Ground like a Moon Harvesting Array. The amount of recruits is determined by Sec Status and the number of Temperature or planets with a population on it. Obviously, the further out you are from Empire Hubs, the less you recruit. Refuge Center: This POS mod brings in a much lower amount of Recruits than the Recruitment Center but there is a bonus. Whenever a ship explodes in space, capsuleer pilots will obviously flee to the nearest safe house. This is where the Refuge Center comes in. Whenever a ship is destroyed, the survivors will flee to the nearest Refuge Center, ready to be trained and work for their next captain. Training Ground: Training Grounds work much like Reactors. Instead of materials, it takes in Recruits which are generated by the two modules above. They output to Habitation Modules which house all of the crew members in a POS. Recruits go in and with different reactions, you can make Ship Crew, Janitors or Assistants. Habitation Module: These are just like the ones you see in missions. Any crew member in a POS lives in one and when a ship is put into storage, the crew on that ship will return to this. Due to the size of crews, these can hold a large amount of people in suitable living quarters. With these four modules, you can make Ship Crew, Janitors and Assistants Ship Crew: These are trained men and women who will fly and help maintain the lesser aspects of your ship while you focus on the more important tasks. Obviously, the larger the ship, the more ship crew you will need Assistants: When running a POS, you need someone to help maintain the labs and construction. These are the men and women who do so. They are not trained capsuleers so they do not assist in ship operation Janitors: With such large amount of people living in a POS and Nullsec stations, you will need someone to keep the toilets working. Its a terrible job but SOMEONE has to do it. Depending on the amount of crew you have in a POS and your ships docked in a station, you will have to pay out a sum of money for their wages so they can send it home to their families about once a month or so. Of course, there is a bit more than just bare basic crew and assistants. You will need someone to manage slightly more advanced processes with a School. With the reactions, you can make Navigators, Security Officers, Engineers, Technicians, Mechanics, Industrialists and Scientists. The Ship Crew and Assistants need someone to tell them what to do Navigators: These regulate and manage ship navigational systems, propulsion, star charts and even manage crew ships flying around in POSes and letting in Recruits. They also make sure who enters and leaves Nullsec Stations Security Officers: These folks are in charge of gunnery, missiles, drones and POS Defenses. They also screen any potential Recruits and keep dissent in the ranks in line. Engineers: They keep your power core, capacitors and shield running even in the most intense of battles. They also maintain POS shields, some construction and nullsec station shielding. Mechanic: The internal structure of a ship and its armor are made sure to be running fine with these men and women in charge. They also assist in construction and are necessary for Nullsec Stations Technician: They regulate computers and the electronics of ships, POSes and Nullsec Stations Industrialist: They have a limited use on ships but are vital for POSes and Nulsec stations. They are in charge of reprocessing and Industry and are used for mining ships and Capital Industrial ships like the Orca and the Rorqual. These can only be made from reacting Assistants Scientist: These men and women regulate POS Labs, Station research but more importantly, they are necessary for highly advanced ships such as Strategic Cruisers and Titans. These can only be made by reacting assistants. Finally, one final reaction is necessary to turn Ship Crew into a Fighter Pilot. Fighter Pilots obviously only have one use but are necessary for Carriers since those pilots are not Capsuleers. The number of Pilots a Carrier will need will be determined by the number of Fighters and Fighter Bombers in the Carrier All ships will require a crew to function properly. A ship without a proper crew would not be allowed to undock and the crew will need to be paid in order to keep working under that captain. Obviously, the ship crew is not permanent stationed in one ship and they can be transferred from ship to ship. But the larger and more advanced the ship is, the better trained the crew will need to be. How may I drug you with drugs?
Caldari Citizen345893746 Intergalactic Specialty Tactical Aeon Brokers 2	Posted - 2012.04.01 21:41:00 - [2] - Quote tl:dr Wow, what a post, sure there is some good info in there. But not sure paying for crew is what would fix eve's financial bloated-ness as of late.
Brynhilda Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies. 91	Posted - 2012.04.01 22:29:00 - [3] - Quote Maybe not, its just something I thought of. How may I drug you with drugs?
Danika Princip Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team 331	Posted - 2012.04.01 23:39:00 - [4] - Quote If they come from a POS module, where is the ISK sink? This is just another thing we have to buy when we lose ships. It takes no isk out of the economy whatsoever.
Brynhilda Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies. 91	Posted - 2012.04.01 23:58:00 - [5] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: If they come from a POS module, where is the ISK sink? This is just another thing we have to buy when we lose ships. It takes no isk out of the economy whatsoever. You have to pay them once a month for their wages. How may I drug you with drugs?
Danika Princip Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team 332	Posted - 2012.04.02 01:25:00 - [6] - Quote Brynhilda wrote: Danika Princip wrote: If they come from a POS module, where is the ISK sink? This is just another thing we have to buy when we lose ships. It takes no isk out of the economy whatsoever. You have to pay them once a month for their wages. Or what? My ship stops? It becomes physically impossible for me to make the isk to pay them? What. exactly, does this add to the game?
Brynhilda Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies. 91	Posted - 2012.04.02 03:13:00 - [7] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Brynhilda wrote: Danika Princip wrote: If they come from a POS module, where is the ISK sink? This is just another thing we have to buy when we lose ships. It takes no isk out of the economy whatsoever. You have to pay them once a month for their wages. Or what? My ship stops? It becomes physically impossible for me to make the isk to pay them? What. exactly, does this add to the game? Then sell the ship if you can't afford a crew to keep it running. This adds immersion to the game, of course. How may I drug you with drugs?
Aglais Right Click Industries 57	Posted - 2012.04.02 05:16:00 - [8] - Quote Brynhilda wrote: Then sell the ship if you can't afford a crew to keep it running. This adds immersion to the game, of course. No. Just no. This doesn't add immersion, and it has been stated that capsuleers do the vast majority of work on a spacecraft, entirely mentally. Any crew that they do have probably just looks after the maintenance drones or something. Or ARE the maintenance drones. I'm entirely fine with floating around in what's more or less a ghost ship controlled by a single person. That idea actually appeals to me more than having to pay a crew of non-capsuleers to do things around the ship.
Molish EnigmaticS Industrial Domination.. 1	Posted - 2012.04.02 08:00:00 - [9] - Quote Adds immersion to the game: 2nd Lieutenant Redshirt gets drunk and stumbles haplessly into the warp core causing a massive explosion and destroys the ship. Sad part is 100 units of 'Tourists' parished in the resulting blast and pressure change. I'll keep my lightning fast neurons fly the ship. :)
TurAmarth ElRandir Helix Pulse Rolling Thunder. 20	Posted - 2012.04.02 08:16:00 - [10] - Quote LOL... all those who like the idea that ONE MAN, all by his lonesome, can run a TITAN with his AMAZING BRAIN... is a fool. This is something that could ONLY happen in a GAME... not in a virtual real world.... which is what EVE is moar than any other "game" out there. No, sorry, we have crews, large or small, and they are "people" without whom you (no matter how amazing YOU think your brain might be) CANNOT run and maintain and effectivly fly and fight anything larger than a shuttle. The Lore is very, very clear on this... as clearly detailed here Shows over, move on.. OK, I really like your idea. Well thought out and detailed. As for it being a sink. not only do crews have to be paid, they have to be fed and clothed and medical services provided, etc., etc.... all of these are COSTS and are part and parcel of ship ownership... the Cost of Doing Business as 'twere. TurAmarth ElRandir HBHI VP & Salvage Operations Director Fly Safe and see you in the Sky =/\|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/

Danika Princip Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team 334	Posted - 2012.04.02 09:54:00 - [11] - Quote Brynhilda wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Brynhilda wrote: Danika Princip wrote: If they come from a POS module, where is the ISK sink? This is just another thing we have to buy when we lose ships. It takes no isk out of the economy whatsoever. You have to pay them once a month for their wages. Or what? My ship stops? It becomes physically impossible for me to make the isk to pay them? What. exactly, does this add to the game? Then sell the ship if you can't afford a crew to keep it running. This adds immersion to the game, of course. Immersion at the cost of fun is a terrible idea. What if you're in a wormhole, have no pos there and run out of isk to pay your crew? Or you're a super pilot? Also, isn't a single isk, lore wise, more than most planet dwellers will see in a lifetime? If you want crews, come up with a way to add them that does NOT make the game less fun, nor penalise PVPers, wormhole dwellers and the like, or make it impossible to play if you don't have enough space money
The Hamilton Definitive Exploration and Excavations The Watchmen. 20	Posted - 2012.04.02 17:54:00 - [12] - Quote My main gripe with crew / no crew arguments is the "They are real!" "But the pod!" comments. Tell me what is so fantastic about adding them that it makes EVE more fun? Then no-one even considers smaller ways for CCP to try adding them without upsetting the player base. (e.g. crew to fit ships without you making them active? Or while your in another station.) Just some minor roles that give these 'items' some use. If realism came into it, we'd be dumping marines into stations to win Sov. And that would just make sov battles into two or three way tower defence games. I want a crew mechanic as much as the next guy. But give them a real purpose that doesn't get in the way of flying spaceships and adds more fun without complexity (See implants, attributes and boosters). We have enough complexity as it is. If everyone had normal "crew" automatically and they could then use some kind of elite crew, at least that wouldn't get in the way. But falls into the getting complex problem. So let them improve one thing and only one thing and also require a slot (perhaps a quarters, with the crew being added like scripts). But I still think anything like this is too complex and adds little value. So then we get into crazy territory trying to make it fun. Where you shoot a boarding crew into an enemy ship, which provides bleeding damage over time until they all die when the other pilot eventually ejects them into space. As well as equipping anti-boarding party defenders to avoid this damage type. All in all, I've yet to see a crew mechanic that addresses and fixes a problem without creating more problems. Crew for immersion's sake isn't good enough.
Grammaticus DeVere POS Builder Inc. Silent Requiem 7	Posted - 2012.04.02 20:02:00 - [13] - Quote Aglais wrote: Brynhilda wrote: Then sell the ship if you can't afford a crew to keep it running. This adds immersion to the game, of course. No. Just no. This doesn't add immersion, and it has been stated that capsuleers do the vast majority of work on a spacecraft, entirely mentally. Any crew that they do have probably just looks after the maintenance drones or something. Or ARE the maintenance drones. I'm entirely fine with floating around in what's more or less a ghost ship controlled by a single person. That idea actually appeals to me more than having to pay a crew of non-capsuleers to do things around the ship. The Templar One novel makes it abundantly clear that ships do have crews, even if it doesn't go into the specfics of what they actually do...and of course the Clear Skies fanboi movies have a crew on the Typhoon of the same name. I agree that adding crew skills etc does add immersion to the game...and crew skill levels should have an effect on overall ship efficiency. G
Nariya Kentaya Tartarus Ventures Surely You're Joking 165	Posted - 2012.04.02 21:56:00 - [14] - Quote Only if i can invite the female cadets, first officers, emchanics, and doctors, to my CQ for some between-mission fun.... mayeb ahve them washing the pod in CQ qhiel wearing bikinis... but in all honesty, fi we add crew, i would at elast liek to be able to assign X-number of crew members as "module" types that would ONLY affect the crew i hire as efficiency modifiers and i could custoomize what they look like, ebcause again, after hours fun in the CQ. (and CCP get rid of the epsky Teen rating and put an M or something up, sow e can get stuf liekt his, ebcause i swear, there are almost NO little kids playingt his agme, most of thema re just 20+ eyar olds who are so immature they ACT like 14-)
Zubrette The Skunkworks 10	Posted - 2012.04.02 22:30:00 - [15] - Quote Only way I see this being applicable is an experience system that develops as you pvp/pve, you have one static crew that never changes (despite dying) and you get a passive (and small) bonus to the stats/skills you have been using. Like for instance 5% tops. Make it a long grind, with diminishing returns, exp caps (so you cant just fight your friend in a perma tanked ship and waste loads of ammo leveling your weapons calibration mechanics up).
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 651	Posted - 2012.04.03 03:32:00 - [16] - Quote oh boy being fined for owning ships sweet
Grammaticus DeVere POS Builder Inc. Silent Requiem 7	Posted - 2012.04.03 20:39:00 - [17] - Quote Nariya Kentaya wrote: Only if i can invite the female cadets, first officers, emchanics, and doctors, to my CQ for some between-mission fun.... mayeb ahve them washing the pod in CQ qhiel wearing bikinis... but in all honesty, fi we add crew, i would at elast liek to be able to assign X-number of crew members as "module" types that would ONLY affect the crew i hire as efficiency modifiers and i could custoomize what they look like, ebcause again, after hours fun in the CQ. (and CCP get rid of the epsky Teen rating and put an M or something up, sow e can get stuf liekt his, ebcause i swear, there are almost NO little kids playingt his agme, most of thema re just 20+ eyar olds who are so immature they ACT like 14-) Zap Brannigan alt spotted...
Markus Reese Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION 97	Posted - 2012.04.03 22:12:00 - [18] - Quote There is TL:DR for me. I however would think it would make a good isk sink. Paid support and required to fly the ship (not keep it in dock)
Kitt JT League of Non-Aligned Worlds Nulli Secunda 30	Posted - 2012.04.04 04:59:00 - [19] - Quote I think a more reasonable scenario would be hiring OFFICERS instead of CREW so a ship would still have all the same functions if you were to ignore the mechanic completely
Markus Reese Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION 101	Posted - 2012.04.04 06:34:00 - [20] - Quote Kitt JT wrote: I think a more reasonable scenario would be hiring OFFICERS instead of CREW so a ship would still have all the same functions if you were to ignore the mechanic completely That does sound better. Giving the eject or self destruct command would launch them from escape pods. Lose the bonus until you pick them up somehow? That does present interesting logistical issues. The best way I think is if they form a warp beacon much like stuff launched from planetary command centers. So much time to head back somehow to grab your crew.

SGT FUNYOUN Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Bringers of Death. 47	Posted - 2012.04.04 09:16:00 - [21] - Quote Check the "commonly proposed ideas" thread. This has been suggested before. My only thought is this... ... I am the only HUMAN crew on my ship, the rest are Gallente Drone Tech. Gallente were supposedly the first ones after the original gate collapsed to restart space exploration. It would stand to reason then that they were the ones who developed the majority of space ship tech and thus all these ships are maintained via the computers and an internal matrix of drones.
Teia Leusten Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.04.04 14:02:00 - [22] - Quote There is a simple way to make this fun. But first things first. Ship without a crew should function exactly as it functions now, everything is supposedly handled by automatics. Adding few officers (receiving monthly payment) increases performance of certain modules. What modules you ask? That depends on how you assign the crew. Basically, while in a station you can specify what percentage of the whole crew takes care of a certain module. Obviously, you can't make the whole crew service one module. That just doesn't scale. So, let there be some limit on the maximum number of people to do this, modulewise. There also should be a limit to the maximum crew size for a ship type. Adding some modules that increase this size is something to think about. If your ship is destroyed, part of the crew survives, as specified by the guidelines. To make it simple, we can think that crew somehow manages to find their way to the station so you can hire that part of the crew again, for free. As for the rest, you have to pay them (that is, if you want). Nobody forces you to have maximum number of officers allowed, just enough for your task. And finally, thanks, but no experience for crews. This makes it way too complex. Let's follow the KISS principle here. TL;DR crews = customization
Mike Whiite Progressive State 36	Posted - 2012.04.04 14:18:00 - [23] - Quote Brynhilda wrote: Danika Princip wrote: If they come from a POS module, where is the ISK sink? This is just another thing we have to buy when we lose ships. It takes no isk out of the economy whatsoever. You have to pay them once a month for their wages. Anmar have a different methode for that, they're called slaves, no way they are paying them wages.
Theodore Calliente 13 Rocks and Wrecks LTD. Vindication Mob 0	Posted - 2012.04.04 21:01:00 - [24] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Also, isn't a single isk, lore wise, more than most planet dwellers will see in a lifetime? "milk" in the game is 200 isk for 400 kg 1 kg = 1 litre (water, we are gonna assume the same for milk) about 4 litres = gallon (for you amurrican folks) 200/400 = .5 * 4 = 2 2 isk per gallon of milk.
Danika Princip Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team 336	Posted - 2012.04.04 21:19:00 - [25] - Quote Theodore Calliente wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Also, isn't a single isk, lore wise, more than most planet dwellers will see in a lifetime? "milk" in the game is 200 isk for 400 kg 1 kg = 1 litre (water, we are gonna assume the same for milk) about 4 litres = gallon (for you amurrican folks) 200/400 = .5 * 4 = 2 2 isk per gallon of milk. I said lore wise, not game wise.
Talon SilverHawk Patria o Muerte 30	Posted - 2012.04.04 21:54:00 - [26] - Quote What about ship collectors ? Could be unaffordable ("no "then sell your ship answers please"). Do you only pay for crew when you fly them ? Tal
xCabalx Eve Engineering Finance Eve Engineering 3	Posted - 2012.05.13 01:59:00 - [27] - Quote Good I found this thread. I have problems to imagine how big a ship really is. If you fly a bigger one, the feeling of flying it is the same like flying an interceptor. It doesn't really feel like a big ship because something like a crew is missing. If your ship was destroyed, it's like only one man has died and you buy another one ready to use without even thinking, that hundreds of man bite to dust. The bigger the ships are, the more crew is needed to operate this one. It's like the biggest military ships on sea are just controlled by only a one man crew, in fact by one player. The only difference flying a smaller and a bigger ship is... to just skill it. It all feels the same. For example again: There is no difference between a "one-man" ship on sea and a military destroyer on sea, but the difference here is huge, in EVE there is no such difference or an indicator about this one so everything feels kinda small.
Felsusguy Try-Cycle Mining Industry 8	Posted - 2012.05.13 02:15:00 - [28] - Quote EVE Online is not that kind of game. In certain simulation games where your ship was your entire world and it revolved around maintaining it as much as using it, but it doesn't belong in EVE Online. As my ol' granpappy used to say "It don't do a damn thing."


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