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Interceptor - Speed Nerf Survey

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Lyria Skydancer Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.10.22 00:33:00 - [31] Originally by: Grimpak creative? yes creative... trashes his inties and gets a RR-fitted sniper apoc now everyone's flying 150km-range spider tanking BS'es. creativity at it's best... Can't be worse then everyone flying nano's. I think this patch will definately bring alot more diversity to eve. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2008.10.22 01:27:00 - [32] The devs have admitted there's a problem with the interceptors signature radius- especially w/ relation to missiles with the new missile formula. If they replace the "smaller radius/lvl" bonus with a reduction in the MWD formula as they had discussed- you'd see slower inties but also smaller targets....could work. On the other side of the coin I believe that the AF have a role now- alternative tackler to the inty. The AB sig tank is perfect against missiles- I tackled a cerb for over 4 minutes in a wolf. The web nerf also makes turrets hard to track them. They are most vulnerable on the approach....but once they get on you they're imbedded like a tick.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order	Posted - 2008.10.22 05:06:00 - [33] Originally by: Grimpak now everyone's flying 150km-range spider tanking BS'es. creativity at it's best... The great thing with fleets of spider tanking battleship fleets? No one dies. After all, without tackles where is the risk? So i suspect we'll see ceptors and assault frigs going for tackles and creating warp in points for close up bs fleets. Mixed fleets as it should be. Sniper tactics died because dps and short range was favored over range that simply did not work. A pimped ceptor or a nice nano could close the range fast enough that the snipers couldn't effectively use the distance. Snipers weren't flexible enough. Originally by: Zarnak Wulf but once they get on you they're imbedded like a tick. You don't see that as an issue? The only counter will be large neuts. Med neuts may not have the range (not sure). A hac should be fairly dangerous to an assault frig. A battleship probably doesn't have a chance. Again, this is likely to add the large neut to the holy trinity of neut, mwd, and scram as required mods.
Semkhet The Priory	Posted - 2008.10.22 06:07:00 - [34] Originally by: eXtas I think light drones and stuff should be able to do damage to ceptors... not like now when I can just permatakle a bs with a t2 fitted stiletto.. nothing he can do about it... 30km scram range and nothing can hit me doing 10km/s+ I remember the days when you actualy feared lightdrones and missiles in your ceptor :P Warriors II can go over 10 Km/sec
Haniblecter Teg	Posted - 2008.10.22 06:09:00 - [35] ? My inty can go 6.5km stock, with t2 modules and no implants. That's MORE than fast enough. How fast you need to go OP? ----------------- Friends Forever
Crackzilla The Shadow Order	Posted - 2008.10.22 06:44:00 - [36] Originally by: Semkhet Warriors II can go over 10 Km/sec I don't think they hit effectively against targets going that fast. Not 100% as I haven't tried it recently. If I remember, the drone pulses from using its mwd to keep up to the ceptor, then failing to orbit, falling behind the ceptor, where it must pulse the mwd again. The overall effect is that it mostly follows the ceptor making it easy for the drone to be popped. Since the drone cannot orbit, if I recall it wasn't very effective in shooting the ceptor. Again, been a while since I tried this. Seemed to be a speed much slower than 10km/s where drones were no longer effective. And if the ceptor couldn't be webbed then most likely it'll have time to coast out of warp disrupt range and warp off.
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2008.10.22 07:22:00 - [37] Quote: You don't see that as an issue? The only counter will be large neuts. Med neuts may not have the range (not sure). A hac should be fairly dangerous to an assault frig. A battleship probably doesn't have a chance. Again, this is likely to add the large neut to the holy trinity of neut, mwd, and scram as required mods. Your thinking in terms of solo, which is a choice you make. If you need a heavy neut to solo then you need a heavy neut to solo. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
P Rick M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.10.22 07:48:00 - [38] Are you fkin joking me. 3-4 years ago intys used to move at 6k at best. Its just going back to the old ways (which imo they should do) so people cant nano*** up to the max.
Burn Mac Minmatar The Tuskers	Posted - 2008.10.22 11:19:00 - [39] Originally by: P Rick Are you fkin joking me. 3-4 years ago intys used to move at 6k at best. Its just going back to the old ways (which imo they should do) so people cant nano*** up to the max. 3-4 years ago intys could hold a orbit at good speeds post nerf they wont.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2008.10.22 11:29:00 - [40] Originally by: Crackzilla Originally by: Zarnak Wulf but once they get on you they're imbedded like a tick. You don't see that as an issue? The only counter will be large neuts. Med neuts may not have the range (not sure). A hac should be fairly dangerous to an assault frig. A battleship probably doesn't have a chance. Again, this is likely to add the large neut to the holy trinity of neut, mwd, and scram as required mods. On a 1v1 basis, maybe - although medium neuts do indeed have the range. On the other hand, the AF will find it tricky to disengage from your BS, so any support that's available to you will find it much easier to pop the AF than, for example, an inty that can disengage more easily.

Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.22 11:50:00 - [41] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 22/10/2008 11:50:41 Interceptors, post patch, are suicide tackling mobiles. Just forget them and use a disposable T1 frigate for tackling. Use a Arazu if you want to tackle (relatively) safely. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2008.10.22 11:54:00 - [42] Originally by: Crackzilla You don't see that as an issue? The only counter will be large neuts. Med neuts may not have the range (not sure). A hac should be fairly dangerous to an assault frig. A battleship probably doesn't have a chance. Again, this is likely to add the large neut to the holy trinity of neut, mwd, and scram as required mods. The AF tackles at 1000m. The medium nuet will have an effect. If I can't run my SAR II then eventually you WILL kill me. Nuets and drones are the biggest threats an AF faces. Interceptor: tackle at 25km to 30km. Risk the guns of someone w/ perfect gunnery. AF: Get under the guns but risk webs and nuets.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.22 12:12:00 - [43] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Grimpak creative? yes creative... trashes his inties and gets a RR-fitted sniper apoc now everyone's flying 150km-range spider tanking BS'es. creativity at it's best... Can't be worse then everyone flying nano's. I think this patch will definately bring alot more diversity to eve. while I believe that diversity is needed, I also believe that this patch won't bring it. There are subtler ways to nerf nanos instead just applying a tacnuke into the issue and opening new and unforseen can of worms. Originally by: Crackzilla The great thing with fleets of spider tanking battleship fleets? No one dies. After all, without tackles where is the risk? So i suspect we'll see ceptors and assault frigs going for tackles and creating warp in points for close up bs fleets. Mixed fleets as it should be. yes, but then again, why bring a puny ship that won't be recieving any good from RR'ing, will be killable by drones and whatso, when you can be like the big boys and bring an RR-fitted battleship? oh sure bring a short range fleet below the guns, but then again, your gank-fitted, buffer-tanked gank BS'es will be so slow that even a turtle can keep up with you. the problem is not the ship's speed, but the mods that CCP introduced that augument them, and I still say that nerfing polys and snakes would be enough. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
eXtas Atomic Battle Penguins	Posted - 2008.10.22 12:23:00 - [44] Originally by: Semkhet Originally by: eXtas I think light drones and stuff should be able to do damage to ceptors... not like now when I can just permatakle a bs with a t2 fitted stiletto.. nothing he can do about it... 30km scram range and nothing can hit me doing 10km/s+ I remember the days when you actualy feared lightdrones and missiles in your ceptor :P Warriors II can go over 10 Km/sec yes they can but they wont track anything then... even if you load up all mids with tracking for drones they wont hit the inty enough... only thing that managed to hurt a inty I been flying was a cerb with light pressissions and right rigs.. but that was just because I was in a slow ranis not going over 8km/s or whatever is the max speed for lights... stiletto would just be fine... give back the days of plated rocket crows! --------
Shaemell Buttleson Euphoria Released	Posted - 2008.10.22 14:20:00 - [45] Very succesfull Inti pilots (some very famous or well known) were tackling things all the time before the age of rigs, Snake implants and boosters. I think instead of any ****poor to average inti pilot being able to use these ships we will start seeing decent ones again who know how to fly intis. And for this reason alone I am pleased it's being changed.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.22 14:37:00 - [46] Edited by: Grimpak on 22/10/2008 14:37:29 Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson Very succesfull Inti pilots (some very famous or well known) were tackling things all the time before the age of rigs, Snake implants and boosters. I think instead of any **poor to average inti pilot being able to use these ships we will start seeing decent ones again who know how to fly intis. And for this reason alone I am pleased it's being changed. while I don't deny that the age of nanos made many poor inty pilots, it is also true that even vets will struggle more than before since mwd's were changed aswell. it is also true that with the changes, even a swarm of T2 goblins will be a dire threat for inties. --- Quote:** The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Dr Sheepbringer	Posted - 2008.10.22 14:53:00 - [47] True, it will be a ***** to fly them now. I have nothing against the FASTEST weapon systems to hit a inti. That's what they are there for, but when the normal stuff blows you from skies... Last time I checked a musket isn't supersonic.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.10.22 20:05:00 - [48] Originally by: Grimpak while I believe that diversity is needed, I also believe that this patch won't bring it. There are subtler ways to nerf nanos instead just applying a tacnuke into the issue and opening new and unforseen can of worms. I think something as complex as speed mechanics had to be done this way and as far as I can see is done in a good manner. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Tempest of Change
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.22 20:18:00 - [49] Edited by: Grimpak on 22/10/2008 20:18:00 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Grimpak while I believe that diversity is needed, I also believe that this patch won't bring it. There are subtler ways to nerf nanos instead just applying a tacnuke into the issue and opening new and unforseen can of worms. I think something as complex as speed mechanics had to be done this way and as far as I can see is done in a good manner. but wouldn't nerfing polys and snakes (or even going as far as nerfing gang speed bonuses), thus lowering the bar, be enough? Because it seems to me that this nerf, coupled with the probable (extremely likely) nerf of ECM (oh yes it will be, I can forsee that...) will bring the days from before the first tracking changes where bringing anything smaller than a battleship was nearly suicidal. Also it will bring a new age where you will be more dependant of cap ships and RR BS fleets, and increase redundancy of nearly all other ship classes in the larger fleets (xcept maybe cov ops), since people will turn more and more to RR BS fleets to cover the fact that they don't stand a chance against the enemy in other kind of setups. This will probably mean BS/cap RR fleets slugging it out at 100km ranges or more where the winner will still be the one with greater numbers and cap ships, and lag, and the death of the roaming gangs since you can't do a good ol' 10-man BS roaming gang like it used to be, when considering cap ships, (heavy) interdictors, jump bridges and the like. in sum, eve will get pretty much boring, and 0.0 space even moreso. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.10.22 20:58:00 - [50] Edited by: Haradgrim on 22/10/2008 20:58:42 The changes to Gistii B-type 1mn MWDs (and 1mn faction MWDs in general) makes want to punch Nozh in the stomach.... Sorry Nozh edit: I know its proably needed but they are about to kill one of the most fun ship classes to fly.... RIP Inties... -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed

Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.22 21:21:00 - [51] As someone who has nearly exclusively been flying a AB Interceptor on TQ for some months now I can say only this: don't worry so much. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.22 21:30:00 - [52] The issue I have with interceptors now is that they alone are able to achieve absolute immunity to missiles with a reasonable fit. And, if they are absolutely immune to even dual flare rigged precision light missiles they damn sure don't care about the flight of warrior II's desperately trying (and failing) to catch them. From my perspective, the modern interceptor is invincible. The ONLY options I have on a regular basis involve trying to get them to bounce into rocks, or hope they're a moron. Gun ships don't have the same set of problems, but even gun ships have trouble actually hitting interceptors. I understand that Inty's are flimsy ships that rely on being difficult to hit to survive, but the key shouldn't be that they are immune to damage (more or less the issue now - any inty is all but unkillable by a single target because it's unlikely you'll actually be able to reduce transversal enough to hit them). The signature radius itself seems to be the key to survival. It shouldn't require strong x-boosters and HG Halo implants to stay alive in a post nerf inty though. A simple reduction in the MWD signature penalty would sufficie. Or, if that's too difficult to implement just make a new class of MWD that only works on Intys (i.e. make it require a staggering amount of CPU and give the inty a huge reduction in CPU cost). The new MWD can have a built in lower signature penalty (say 200% versus the current 500% or so). This keeps your signature about the size of an assault frig, and when you combine the signature size with the relatively high speed you ought to be more or less fine. Your tank won't hold forever, but if it takes more than a minute to get a heaver tackler on the target you're doing it wrong anyway.
Aleus Stygian	Posted - 2008.10.22 21:41:00 - [53] Originally by: TimMc Overdrives and aux thrusters are fine... its polycarbons and snakes that are the real problems. This cannot be repeated enough.
Frankreich Hollister	Posted - 2008.10.22 21:59:00 - [54] I've been playing for less than 2 months and have been spending a good deal of that time training for a Crow. All I want to know is whether I will still be able to get a Crow (or any other 'ceptor) to perform its job without having to use rigs, boosters, and/or implants that a player like me (having only been playing for a few months) has no real chance of being able to obtain.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.22 22:03:00 - [55] Originally by: Frankreich Hollister I've been playing for less than 2 months and have been spending a good deal of that time training for a Crow. All I want to know is whether I will still be able to get a Crow (or any other 'ceptor) to perform its job without having to use rigs, boosters, and/or implants that a player like me (having only been playing for a few months) has no real chance of being able to obtain. The shortest answer is yes. More importantly, the speed changes actually help the crow in a lot of ways. Most modern "dog fighting" (i.e. damage dealing) inty's travel far to fast for the crow to engage. 5km/s representing a new average speed means light and precision light missiles will actually once again hit (and, given the low HP of inty's they'll certainly hurt). Of course, you'll also be easier to hit as well, so it's all realtive. One thing is certain: inty's will be easier to hit on average. If you never invested in boosters, implants or rigs you won't be affected as much as those who've invested heavily in their ships.
John Yancy	Posted - 2008.10.23 00:41:00 - [56] In the spirit of Frankreich's question, I am currently training for a crusader. I plan to use it to tackle those weaker than myself in belts and such, and to kill them. Mostly solo, but also as tackle during roaming ops. With the current changes, about how fast do I need to be going to avoid enough damage to stay around and kill, say, a ratting thorax? Is the crusader even viable in this sort of role? A newbish not-yet-inty pilot needs your advice.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.10.23 01:14:00 - [57] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 23/10/2008 01:14:12 Originally by: Grimpak but wouldn't nerfing polys and snakes (or even going as far as nerfing gang speed bonuses), thus lowering the bar, be enough? Because it seems to me that this nerf, coupled with the probable (extremely likely) nerf of ECM (oh yes it will be, I can forsee that...) will bring the days from before the first tracking changes where bringing anything smaller than a battleship was nearly suicidal. Also it will bring a new age where you will be more dependant of cap ships and RR BS fleets, and increase redundancy of nearly all other ship classes in the larger fleets (xcept maybe cov ops), since people will turn more and more to RR BS fleets to cover the fact that they don't stand a chance against the enemy in other kind of setups. This will probably mean BS/cap RR fleets slugging it out at 100km ranges or more where the winner will still be the one with greater numbers and cap ships, and lag, and the death of the roaming gangs since you can't do a good ol' 10-man BS roaming gang like it used to be, when considering cap ships, (heavy) interdictors, jump bridges and the like. in sum, eve will get pretty much boring, and 0.0 space even moreso. But wait, frigs have shorter range then BS right? Do frigs survive better after the patch in frig ranges against BS? Yes. How about frigs today? Well they are coffins when facing any kind of cruiser sized turret fire at ALL ranges. At very long ranges they get squished by BS sniper guns and at short range they get webbed and torp'ed to death by big ships. To summerize: Is the situations of sub BS ships worse after the patch? I think not. This will give meaning to actually have mixed fleets tbh. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Tempest of Change
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.23 01:21:00 - [58] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer This will give meaning to actually have mixed fleets tbh. I don't see any need for anything smaller then a BS as long as you have 6-7 of them post-patch. Well, except a Damnation to boost your circle jerking capability, and it's still got the grid left to fit like AMLs or something And Falcons, of course. Seriously, why would you want a mixed fleet? You should be aware that focus webbing / droning / neuting / etc deals with all the silly attempts to speedtank in webrange very easily, not to mention that RR-ing makes it possible to easily shrug off any attempts at DPS small ships do. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Ap0ll0n Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2008.10.23 05:16:00 - [59] Adapt or die.. Oh and btw, contract all your stuff to me when you quit EVE.. Thanks..
Leon vanUber	Posted - 2008.10.23 06:14:00 - [60] Originally by: Stab Wounds Intys were not meant to be solo-pwn-mobiles. GET OVER IT. Intys should not be unkillable and the upcoming changes finally balances them and will force people to fit them in ways other than the a lame nanofit. AB+ Scram? Plate/shield tank? You ******s need to get creative. look at his corp. caldari militia. its just another noob who brings his heavy-missile-no-tackle-mission-drake to fleetops and wonders why he cant kill a ceptor. yet its ofc the other guys fault that he cant kill them, and THEY need to get CREATIVE. @OP: wow, so now a untrackingbonused frigatesized railgun will hit my crow orbiting. It's nothing personal. I just want your stuff, and more importantly the fun of the fight.



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