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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.23 09:45:00 -
[1]
A few months ago, CCP made a dev blog about mining in 0.0, supply of common minerals, uselessness of veldspar roids in a 0.0 system, and so on. It ended with CCP aknowledging something needed to be done to give miners in 0.0 the possibility to find a source of common minerals that would be worth mining, instead of just importing trit from empire.
Since the next expansion is themed on industry, it would be a good time to implement whatever CCP decide to do about it, no? ------------------------------------------
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.23 09:55:00 -
[2]
CCP has ADD. Pretty explosion lights keep distracting them. --
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.10.23 09:57:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 23/10/2008 09:57:29 New 0.0 minerals added, call it "newnium" and "randominum".
New "micro slots" added to ships.
New modules added that fit micro slots.
Micro modules can only be made with "newnium" and "randominum".
Tadaa!
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Donna Divine
Gilded Goose Brokerage
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Posted - 2008.10.23 10:08:00 -
[4]
Oh good, even more sources for minerals and less logistics involved, like ships aren¦t cheap enough already.
CCP could introduce higer yield low end roids in 0.0. With like 10 times the refine yield in trit and pyer.
Or they simply introduce hauler spawns in anomalies.
Problem is they¦d need to do something about insurance at the same time. The rich, like us older 0.0 people, have it way too easy already. If people knew the kind of isk older alliances have at their disposal they¦d probably quit trying to compete with us altogether.. There¦s a sick difference between people that need insurance to survive and corps with thousands of reserve ships gathering dust.
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Gilded Goose Brokerages Trading to order. |
Uzume Ame
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Posted - 2008.10.23 10:52:00 -
[5]
1) No region can be independent mineral wise (including moons). 2) Hisec, lowsec, and 0.0 all spawn different minerals (only exception being exploration sites). 3) Remove loot from missions except named stuff and reduce the drops. Remove rogue drones. 4) ... 5) Profit! Teh failure of a signature. |
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.23 10:55:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Donna Divine Oh good, even more sources for minerals and less logistics involved, like ships aren¦t cheap enough already.
CCP could introduce higer yield low end roids in 0.0. With like 10 times the refine yield in trit and pyer.
Or they simply introduce hauler spawns in anomalies.
I could introduce you to belts in Curse or Stain, for example. Only they're the same exact belts you'll find in a 0.5, so mining there is pretty pointless.
No, what is needed is new Veldspar-type ores, with about 3 times the current yield. Nothing excessive, not as profitable than mining crokite or bistot, but still profitable enough that mining them isn't wasting your time.
Quote:
Problem is they¦d need to do something about insurance at the same time. The rich, like us older 0.0 people, have it way too easy already. If people knew the kind of isk older alliances have at their disposal they¦d probably quit trying to compete with us altogether.. There¦s a sick difference between people that need insurance to survive and corps with thousands of reserve ships gathering dust.
You sound like someone who benefit from the protection and logistics of your corp, yet pay it little heed. Having huge asset reserves mean a lot of Isks immobilised, and mammoth logistics to keep it running. That's a lot of work for those who do it.
The issue with dyspro/prom moons is also one I'd like solved, and that's currently the only outrageous income source you'll find in 0.0. Rare roids are nice but in finite quantities. All the rest isn't really that much better than what you could make in empire. ------------------------------------------
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Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.23 12:10:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 23/10/2008 12:14:45 She¦s right Shadowsword, you should know it too.
How long does it take TCF to replace 20 lost dreads these days ? A day of two of some laid back corp effort to get the income ?
The limiting factors in alliance play are the logistics and the participation. Isk is much less of a factor then it should be. the logistics may be mammoth, but if you reduce them what is left ?
I¦d say maxing out insurance payout to the basic level in 0.0 would be a good thing. You¦d see people mining medium level ores in 0.0 if they had reason to not limit themselves to only the most profitable ventures.
And yes, those moons suck. They need some rotation, like once every two months or so. And simply remove the need for moon scans in sov 2 and higher.
[center] Old blog |
Shintai
Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.10.23 12:21:00 -
[8]
0.0 wont get mega veldspar roids. CCP dont want 0.0 to be 100% self supplied. They want empire to rely on 0.0 and vice versa. |
Dr Toregai
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Posted - 2008.10.23 13:10:00 -
[9]
ummm, I may be missing something,
but what is wrong with having ore you can only find in high sec and ore you can only find in 0.0? Surely its good that the two places need each other... and what is the problem with importing Trit... you guys stop selling that expensive 0.0 ore/minerals and those who can't handle 0.0 at the moment are going to soon be in serious trouble... that's ok for you, but it would be nice if the game continued to accommodate new players as well as old.
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Yuleth Gix
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Posted - 2008.10.23 13:24:00 -
[10]
And here I thought he was referring to removing the asteroid belt system in favor of system wide asteroid belts and the need to use the on board scanner.
That'd be something..
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Maxpie
Carrion Crows
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Posted - 2008.10.23 14:19:00 -
[11]
I think they should move those unloved ores like gneiss and spodumain to lowsec where people will actually want to mine them.
He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things. |
Dyaven
Interstellar Mining and Research
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Posted - 2008.10.23 14:33:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 23/10/2008 09:57:29 New items added, call it "salvage".
New "micro slots" added to ships.
New modules added that fit micro slots.
Micro modules can only be made with "salvage".
Tadaa!
Fixed. |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.10.23 14:37:00 -
[13]
Lots of trit in 0.0. No high ends in empire. 0.0 should be self-sufficient, while empire should rely on 0.0. It's the natural order of things.
Also, I hear they are adding Unobtanium roids to 0.0. But the lasers to mine them have a cycle time of 23.5 hours. -
DesuSigs |
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.23 14:54:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 23/10/2008 12:14:45 She¦s right Shadowsword, you should know it too.
How long does it take TCF to replace 20 lost dreads these days ? A day of two of some laid back corp effort to get the income ?
Hard to say. On the logistic side, about two weeks of mineral compression in empire, then a few day of hauling by a few players, then the prod of components and ships. Let's say five weeks.
Of course we have spare ships to replace losses right away.
Still, those minerals need isks to be bought. Maybe a month worth of income from our renters and stations and a third of our high-end POS.
Anyway, profitability of 0.0 is another debate, we're speaking mineral supply here.
Quote:
You¦d see people mining medium level ores in 0.0 if they had reason to not limit themselves to only the most profitable ventures.
I disagree. First because llimitation of insurance would just make players spend more time mining or ratting, second because mining omber in a 0.0 belt would still be pretty moronic, when you can instead mine bistot, then sell it and buy from empire twice the minerals you'd have got from that omber reprocessing. ------------------------------------------
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Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.23 15:12:00 -
[15]
Ha ! but you can only mine bistot .... because someone else didnt beat you to it.
There's massive amounts of people in 0.0, yet still the resources out there (talking non-npc regions ofc) are not being depleted.
What i meant to say is that that is because the challenge is in the logistics, when youve reached the endgame. If you reduce the logistic demands, somethings gotta give, otherwise what stops us from just ending up with even less significant attrition in our wars ?
[center] Old blog |
Heikki
Gallente Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.23 15:29:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Shadowsword importing trit from empire.
Wonder if that quote is accurate. Or CCP's perception of current situation faulty.
All those few 0.0 regions I've hanged in have had oversupply of lowends, yielding to lower prices (like 1.6 for trit compared to 3.2 in Jita). Not really worth of hauling to Empire, but good filler up to cover jump fuel costs.
Nobody mines trit in 0.0, so the oversupply is due: - Reduced demand for bulding materials : all ships except battleships tend to be imported from Empire - Those cursed carrier/transporter/hauler/trailer/bulker spawns. Typical carrier spawn drops 50-75M trit and 12.5M pyerite, and in busy system someone gets one daily.
-Lasse more fond of dependant systems, with mineral hauling going both ways
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.23 16:48:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Heikki Wonder if that quote is accurate. Or CCP's perception of current situation faulty.
All those few 0.0 regions I've hanged in have had oversupply of lowends, yielding to lower prices (like 1.6 for trit compared to 3.2 in Jita). Not really worth of hauling to Empire, but good filler up to cover jump fuel costs.
Pyerite tend to be plentifull on the 0.0 regions I know of, but trit is in frequent shortage. The only reason it might be different for you I can think of would be that there's not much capital/supercapital production being done there. Or hauler spawn are really more frequent than in the south-east.
Quote:
Nobody mines trit in 0.0, so the oversupply is due: - Reduced demand for bulding materials : all ships except battleships tend to be imported from Empire - Those cursed carrier/transporter/hauler/trailer/bulker spawns. Typical carrier spawn drops 50-75M trit and 12.5M pyerite, and in busy system someone gets one daily.
I get it. Your alliance and some of your neigbhours (like Tri) use more often T2 cruisers than battleships, so the demand must be lower there.
Found the quote I wanted:
Quote:
CCP CHronotis: "Shadowsword & Matthew - we are all in agreement on low end ores between high and null sec. How it is specifically implemented can vary from simple addition of new ore variants to some fancy new mechanics similar to what Matthew suggested. Reprocessing of rare ores might be as complex as the initial extraction of them requiring either a specialist facility or some form of reactions for example so its not just the miner who gets the love."
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=692521&page=2
It's been 9 months since that dev blog. Surely that particular aspect has advanced a bit? ------------------------------------------
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Tiberius Maddox
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Posted - 2008.10.24 04:46:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Crumplecorn Lots of trit in 0.0. No high ends in empire. 0.0 should be self-sufficient, while empire should rely on 0.0. It's the natural order of things.
Why is that?
We're supposed to believe that when the empire originally claimed this area of space and colonized it, they intentionally picked a crappy area that lacked vital resources when said resources were available just a few jumps away? Right...
Makes a lot more sense that the empire would pick the best area available. That said, there probably should be some exotic stuff available in 0.0 that can't be found anywhere else. Stuff that perhaps wasn't needed or known when the empire was established? |
Verx Interis
Amarr Aurora Security Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2008.10.24 05:32:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tiberius Maddox
Originally by: Crumplecorn Lots of trit in 0.0. No high ends in empire. 0.0 should be self-sufficient, while empire should rely on 0.0. It's the natural order of things.
Why is that?
We're supposed to believe that when the empire originally claimed this area of space and colonized it, they intentionally picked a crappy area that lacked vital resources when said resources were available just a few jumps away? Right...
Makes a lot more sense that the empire would pick the best area available. That said, there probably should be some exotic stuff available in 0.0 that can't be found anywhere else. Stuff that perhaps wasn't needed or known when the empire was established?
Resources were evenly distributed when the factions started forming. But they used up all the high end ones. --------- Your bad loan management perfectly strikes the stock market, wrecking for -777.68 points. Eve job list |
Bohoba
Caldari HolyKnights
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Posted - 2008.10.24 06:12:00 -
[20]
how about there is more livable planets in empire and none in 0.0 and thats why empire is so crowded,,, ya I know we can't go to them yet but one day :) and I hope 0.0 only has dead dark planets you know the spooky kind fire and all that :) kinda like HELL lol
Originally by: Tiberius Maddox
Originally by: Crumplecorn Lots of trit in 0.0. No high ends in empire. 0.0 should be self-sufficient, while empire should rely on 0.0. It's the natural order of things.
Why is that?
We're supposed to believe that when the empire originally claimed this area of space and colonized it, they intentionally picked a crappy area that lacked vital resources when said resources were available just a few jumps away? Right...
Makes a lot more sense that the empire would pick the best area available. That said, there probably should be some exotic stuff available in 0.0 that can't be found anywhere else. Stuff that perhaps wasn't needed or known when the empire was established?
10.5 hours a day do you have what it takes ?
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Jonna Andromedae
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Posted - 2008.10.24 06:20:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Shintai 0.0 wont get mega veldspar roids. CCP dont want 0.0 to be 100% self supplied. They want empire to rely on 0.0 and vice versa.
If you live in 0.0 and if you need empire tritanium to survive youre doing something really wrong... The 0.0 regions what I have seen has dozens and again dozens belts filled with Veldspar and nobody mining them... Not to mention the mineral income from ratting loot.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.10.24 06:42:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 24/10/2008 06:44:53 Having to import ore is one of the hazards of living in nullsec. If anything they need to reduce common ore in nullsec even more.
The three point Dirk Magnum plan for reviving hard-mode logistics and improving Low Sec in Eve: 1. Increase common ore in Low Sec. 2. Decrease all ore in High Sec. 3. Keep common ore at current or reduced levels in nullsec.
This means that more ore needs to be imported to High Sec, and common ore imported to nullsec. In return, nullsec will be the sole provider of rare ore, and Low Sec the primary provider of common ore. Obviously module reprocessing will also continue to provide some infusion of rarer ore in all sec levels. |
Dictum Factum
Gemini Sun Violent-Tendencies
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Posted - 2008.10.24 07:02:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Crumplecorn Also, I hear they are adding Unobtanium roids to 0.0. But the lasers to mine them have a cycle time of 23.5 hours.
We have a winner! |
Liranan
M'8'S Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.10.24 08:57:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Liranan on 24/10/2008 09:00:05 Hauler spawns need to be fixed and so do drones. The amount of minerals pouring into empire from the drone regions is just ridiculous.
I forgot to address your issue. If you don't want to import minerals from empire there is one solution to it... live in empire. Nobody in their right mind mines velspar in 0 for profit. And bs's in 0 aren't exclusively imported from Empire, most are made in 0 with ore mined or found there. Farjung is my God
You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link. |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.10.24 11:19:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Verx Interis
Originally by: Tiberius Maddox
Originally by: Crumplecorn Lots of trit in 0.0. No high ends in empire. 0.0 should be self-sufficient, while empire should rely on 0.0. It's the natural order of things.
Why is that?
We're supposed to believe that when the empire originally claimed this area of space and colonized it, they intentionally picked a crappy area that lacked vital resources when said resources were available just a few jumps away? Right...
Makes a lot more sense that the empire would pick the best area available. That said, there probably should be some exotic stuff available in 0.0 that can't be found anywhere else. Stuff that perhaps wasn't needed or known when the empire was established?
Resources were evenly distributed when the factions started forming. But they used up all the high end ones.
This. |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.10.24 11:22:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dyaven
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 23/10/2008 09:57:29 New items added, call it "salvage".
New "micro slots" added to ships.
New modules added that fit micro slots.
Micro modules can only be made with "salvage".
Tadaa!
Fixed.
No, those are rigs. R i g s. Rigs! |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.24 11:23:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Crumplecorn Also, I hear they are adding Unobtanium roids to 0.0. But the lasers to mine them have a cycle time of 23.5 hours.
I certainly hope you mean 32 hours (cycle time link, Rorqual, some days DT<1h). |
Dr Toregai
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Posted - 2008.10.24 12:35:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Crumplecorn Lots of trit in 0.0. No high ends in empire. 0.0 should be self-sufficient, while empire should rely on 0.0. It's the natural order of things.
Also, I hear they are adding Unobtanium roids to 0.0. But the lasers to mine them have a cycle time of 23.5 hours.
Actually I heard the modules had a cycle time of 15s, but you could only activate them between 11.05 and 11.55 game time ;)
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Irongut
M'8'S Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.10.24 16:30:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tiberius Maddox
Originally by: Crumplecorn Lots of trit in 0.0. No high ends in empire. 0.0 should be self-sufficient, while empire should rely on 0.0. It's the natural order of things.
Why is that?
We're supposed to believe that when the empire originally claimed this area of space and colonized it, they intentionally picked a crappy area that lacked vital resources when said resources were available just a few jumps away? Right...
Ever heard of resource depletion due to over mining for centuries? Well now you have.
--
The future is Black. Brace for Impact! |
soldieroffortune 258
Gallente Trinity Council
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Posted - 2008.10.24 16:33:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Donna Divine Oh good, even more sources for minerals and less logistics involved, like ships aren¦t cheap enough already.
CCP could introduce higer yield low end roids in 0.0. With like 10 times the refine yield in trit and pyer.
Or they simply introduce hauler spawns in anomalies.
Problem is they¦d need to do something about insurance at the same time. The rich, like us older 0.0 people, have it way too easy already. If people knew the kind of isk older alliances have at their disposal they¦d probably quit trying to compete with us altogether.. There¦s a sick difference between people that need insurance to survive and corps with thousands of reserve ships gathering dust.
let me get a few of these thousands of reserve ships gathering dust then, i will put them to good use
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"
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