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Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2008.10.24 11:10:00 - [1] Based on another thread I saw I made this setup (almost exacpt same setup as in the other thread, so I have no credit for it): [Caracal, HAM Caracal] Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Fleeting Warp Scrambler I X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator 10MN Afterburner II Medium Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II XT-2800 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile XT-2800 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile XT-2800 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile XT-2800 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile XT-2800 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Warrior II x2 Original: [Caracal, HAM Caracal No AB] Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Fleeting Warp Scrambler I X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator 10MN Afterburner II Medium Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II XT-2800 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile XT-2800 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile XT-2800 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile XT-2800 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile XT-2800 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Warrior II x2 This fit was very interesting, and since I am currently working towards a HAM Drake I got decent HAM skills (my HML skills suck), and its nice to have a cheap disposable cruiser to play with until my HAM Drake is better. But seeing as that fit is slow, I figured maby that an AB could bit fitted instead of one MSE II. Do you guys think that removing one MSE II for an 10MN AB II is worth it if in a small gang?
Stork DK Minmatar Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2008.10.24 11:14:00 - [2] Recommend training HML spec to level 3-4 asap due to the rather low dps on a caracal vs for example a thorax or a gank rupture. ----- Signature unavailable.
Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2008.10.24 11:27:00 - [3] Edited by: Lindsay Logan on 24/10/2008 11:32:43 Originally by: Stork DK Recommend training HML spec to level 3-4 asap due to the rather low dps on a caracal vs for example a thorax or a gank rupture. True that. But I am working on HAM skills, not HML, and when my HAM skill get good, I will use a Drake. The Caracal is some cheap fun before I feel ready to fly my Drake :P
Stork DK Minmatar Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2008.10.24 11:29:00 - [4] lol meant ham
Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2008.10.24 11:33:00 - [5] Originally by: Stork DK lol meant ham Ahh :). Yeah, I plan on having HAM spec at level 4 soon as well ;)
Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.10.24 12:00:00 - [6] HAM drake yes HAM Cerb no - get a HAM sac instead. srsly
Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2008.10.24 12:03:00 - [7] Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky HAM drake yes HAM Cerb no - get a HAM sac instead. srsly Dude, I said Caracal. Thats not a not a HAC ;). No offence, but try and read a bit closer ;)
Azuse Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.24 12:05:00 - [8] Haha, agreed, but eh ham sac doesn't hit at 120km, cerbs do have their place but meh. Actually just checked sisi and they've cut the range of jav hams to 30 km, so yes, sac > cerb soon.
Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.10.24 12:08:00 - [9] Originally by: Lindsay Logan Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky HAM drake yes HAM Cerb no - get a HAM sac instead. srsly Dude, I said Caracal. Thats not a not a HAC ;). No offence, but try and read a bit closer ;) The Cerb is the t2 Carac. . .if the Cerb can't do it (for all the reasons you should know and I would be glad to break down for you if you wish) what makes you think the Carac can. Srsly - HAMs on a Drake is an odd thing (in terms of race), for the most part, HAMs are an 'Amarr thing' now. . . but please, its a t1 cruiser. . .its always worth a shot. . .but I'm telling you that HMLs are better on Caldari boats (Drake excluded). ---- ECCM is a Counter-measure not a defense.
Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2008.10.24 12:22:00 - [10] Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky Originally by: Lindsay Logan Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky HAM drake yes HAM Cerb no - get a HAM sac instead. srsly Dude, I said Caracal. Thats not a not a HAC ;). No offence, but try and read a bit closer ;) The Cerb is the t2 Carac. . .if the Cerb can't do it (for all the reasons you should know and I would be glad to break down for you if you wish) what makes you think the Carac can. Srsly - HAMs on a Drake is an odd thing (in terms of race), for the most part, HAMs are an 'Amarr thing' now. . . but please, its a t1 cruiser. . .its always worth a shot. . .but I'm telling you that HMLs are better on Caldari boats (Drake excluded). Yeah, HML Cerb is nice (HML Drake is ok as well), but since I am aiming for a Drake with HAM, I might as well use my HAM skills on a cheap Cara :) (its basically free and all that :P, and I just want to have a bit of small gang fun). And yeah, HAM is rather restricted on Caldari, but fun on the Drake :).
pippan Gallente Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2008.10.24 13:44:00 - [11] Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky Originally by: Lindsay Logan Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky HAM drake yes HAM Cerb no - get a HAM sac instead. srsly Dude, I said Caracal. Thats not a not a HAC ;). No offence, but try and read a bit closer ;) The Cerb is the t2 Carac. . .if the Cerb can't do it (for all the reasons you should know and I would be glad to break down for you if you wish) what makes you think the Carac can. Srsly - HAMs on a Drake is an odd thing (in terms of race), for the most part, HAMs are an 'Amarr thing' now. . . but please, its a t1 cruiser. . .its always worth a shot. . .but I'm telling you that HMLs are better on Caldari boats (Drake excluded). Did you read the sign that says pvp on this thread? Shield buffer/mwd/point/web drakes are more effecient than all you mission runners can imagine. And the nanoHAM cerb gets a nice 40km+ range. So stop crying noob.
Cautet Celestial Apocalypse Resurgency	Posted - 2008.10.24 14:08:00 - [12] Edited by: Cautet on 24/10/2008 14:13:50 Originally by: pippan Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky Originally by: Lindsay Logan Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky HAM drake yes HAM Cerb no - get a HAM sac instead. srsly Dude, I said Caracal. Thats not a not a HAC ;). No offence, but try and read a bit closer ;) The Cerb is the t2 Carac. . .if the Cerb can't do it (for all the reasons you should know and I would be glad to break down for you if you wish) what makes you think the Carac can. Srsly - HAMs on a Drake is an odd thing (in terms of race), for the most part, HAMs are an 'Amarr thing' now. . . but please, its a t1 cruiser. . .its always worth a shot. . .but I'm telling you that HMLs are better on Caldari boats (Drake excluded). Did you read the sign that says pvp on this thread? Shield buffer/mwd/point/web drakes are more effecient than all you mission runners can imagine. And the nanoHAM cerb gets a nice 40km+ range. I don't know him personally but he is in a pvp corp in a pvp alliance. A quick check of Goodfella's KB shows he is a Caldari cap and sub-cap pilot who also has experience of flying cerb's. Edit: that doesn't necasarily mean he is correct - but it does mean you were rather harsh in calling him a "mission runner".
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.24 16:21:00 - [13] Originally by: Azuse Haha, agreed, but eh ham sac doesn't hit at 120km, cerbs do have their place but meh. Actually just checked sisi and they've cut the range of jav hams to 30 km, so yes, sac > cerb soon. Um, you ARE aware that the Cerberus can hit at 40km with regular HAM's right? It does have two 50% range bonuses afterall.
Azuse Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.24 16:41:00 - [14] Are you aware that currently jav hams do 82.5 km on a ship without velocity bonuses i.e the same as heavies with similar speeds and dps? If you have the grid to fit hams right now changing from hams to hml range is just a reload away and using a cerb at 40km is not a smart thing to do either. The ham drake on the other hand is really the only solo ship caldari have, capable of fielding a (regenerating) buffer larger than an other bc (dual lrg extenders ftw) with 600+ dps and full tackle it show quite well hams are not just an Amarr thing. If you lack awu v you'll only be albe to fit 1 extender but have more resists so fair deal. Not the thing with Caracals is they're built for long range support with ok dps, something they'll be doing again soon once ppl stop being able to outrun missiles again however they're crap up close, they tank like a teabag plus they suffer horribly trying to fit hams. If you must put hams on one use javalins and sit at 100km (before they get fixed) however the only reason to fit hams is close range which is what the caracal simply does not do. In other words fit heavies stay at range and wait till you have the skills for a ham drake, it's the only good ti ham platform in the game. -------------------------
August Guns Minmatar Infinite ISK.	Posted - 2008.10.24 16:43:00 - [15] HAM Caracals run into fitting problems. If I were you, I'd fit a Caracal with tech 1 heavy missile launchers, MWD, damps, and BCUs (all tech 1) and have fun blasting away at range. The Caracal is too weak to stand up to in-your-face fighting. A standard HAM drake will destroy your Caracal in 30 seconds, and that's only because you put a buffer on it- I've two-volleyed non-buffered Caracals before. So, fit HMLs. Sit at 100km and use that as your tank. Don't worry about buffer or tackle. August Guns
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.24 18:13:00 - [16] Originally by: Azuse Are you aware that currently jav hams do 82.5 km on a ship without velocity bonuses i.e the same as heavies with similar speeds and dps? If you have the grid to fit hams right now changing from hams to hml range is just a reload away and using a cerb at 40km is not a smart thing to do either. I never once said that it's a GOOD idea to use HAM's on a Cerberus, as I personally favor the AML/HML varients. All I pointed out was, post changes the Cerberus is still able to deliver a missile at substantially longer ranges than the Sacriledge. Of all the faults the Cerb shows when pitted against it's bastard sister HAC, range is not counted among them. Yes, it lacks the ability to tank and tackle but such is the way of MOST caldari ships. Post nerf, it's not like the Sac is going to be a viable nano platform anyway, meaning it's going to be reduced to tank/gank versus tank/gank and much like the Raven vs Megathron matchup the outcome will hinge almost entirely upon how well the Cerb can maintain it's range advantage (and without nano gear the Cerb will generally be faster than a properly tanked Sacriledge). If the new "max" javelin HAM range is 30km, that means that the cerb can deliver the same projectile out to about 60km. And a T1 HAM loaded Cerb still maintains a respectable 10km buffer over a javelin HAM using Sacriledge. The changes, while harmful to both the Sac and the Drake to an extent, actually should make the matchup between the Cerb and the Sac something approaching an even fight. The Sac will still outtank an HML Cerb (especially once you factor in the MWD, the natively weaker cap and the difficulty fitting a proper buffer with the tight grid fittings), and it's still going to potentially outgank the cerb, but the Cerb's range advantage simply grows wider and more powerful.
Fixxi Hard	Posted - 2008.10.24 19:45:00 - [17] Originally by: Azuse Are you aware that currently jav hams do 82.5 km on a ship without velocity bonuses i.e the same as heavies with similar speeds and dps? If you have the grid to fit hams right now changing from hams to hml range is just a reload away and using a cerb at 40km is not a smart thing to do either. The ham drake on the other hand is really the only solo ship caldari have, capable of fielding a (regenerating) buffer larger than an other bc (dual lrg extenders ftw) with 600+ dps and full tackle it show quite well hams are not just an Amarr thing. If you lack awu v you'll only be albe to fit 1 extender but have more resists so fair deal. Not the thing with Caracals is they're built for long range support with ok dps, something they'll be doing again soon once ppl stop being able to outrun missiles again however they're crap up close, they tank like a teabag plus they suffer horribly trying to fit hams. If you must put hams on one use javalins and sit at 100km (before they get fixed) however the only reason to fit hams is close range which is what the caracal simply does not do. In other words fit heavies stay at range and wait till you have the skills for a ham drake, it's the only good ti ham platform in the game. Could you pls post the fitting of your 600+ DPS HAM Drake? I tried to set one up, but didnt get 600 DPS yet .. thanks for your answer :)
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.24 21:06:00 - [18] Originally by: Fixxi Hard Could you pls post the fitting of your 600+ DPS HAM Drake? I tried to set one up, but didnt get 600 DPS yet .. thanks for your answer :) 7 HAM II's 3 BCS Faction kinetic missiles. The mids for a cookie cutter jack of all trades drake has MWD + point + web + 1 LSE and 2 Invulnerabilities and a DCU II With good skills you can make the entire fitting T2 except the MWD (best named is I can get to fit at any rate). Lower skills will probably require downgrades of gear from T2 to named (often making it more expensive).
Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2008.10.24 21:27:00 - [19] Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Fixxi Hard Could you pls post the fitting of your 600+ DPS HAM Drake? I tried to set one up, but didnt get 600 DPS yet .. thanks for your answer :) 7 HAM II's 3 BCS Faction kinetic missiles. The mids for a cookie cutter jack of all trades drake has MWD + point + web + 1 LSE and 2 Invulnerabilities and a DCU II With good skills you can make the entire fitting T2 except the MWD (best named is I can get to fit at any rate). Lower skills will probably require downgrades of gear from T2 to named (often making it more expensive). The 3 BCS + PDU is not too bad either, and makes for easier fit.
SheriffFruitfly Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.29 18:13:00 - [20] Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Azuse Haha, agreed, but eh ham sac doesn't hit at 120km, cerbs do have their place but meh. Actually just checked sisi and they've cut the range of jav hams to 30 km, so yes, sac > cerb soon. Um, you ARE aware that the Cerberus can hit at 40km with regular HAM's right? It does have two 50% range bonuses afterall. I can get 54km, actually. With regular assaults. My ham cerb gets lots of kills. __________________________________________________________
Boon McBwen Caldari State Protectorate Academy	Posted - 2008.11.01 19:11:00 - [21] Originally by: SheriffFruitfly [I can get 54km, actually. With regular assaults. My ham cerb gets lots of kills. share your build?
JadeNoelle Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.11.03 00:01:00 - [22] Originally by: Lindsay Logan Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky HAM drake yes HAM Cerb no - get a HAM sac instead. srsly Dude, I said Caracal. Thats not a not a HAC ;). No offence, but try and read a bit closer ;) The cerb is based off of the Caracal. There is no way in hell I would fly a HAM Caracal. That ship was made for dealing damage over long distances due to it's thin exterior. Like our friend said, HAM Drake - Yes, HAM Caracal - no way in hell unless your doing suicide missions.

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