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Heavy Logistics - BS sized RR ship

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UrsaeMajoris	Posted - 2008.10.24 13:29:00 - [1] Is there any chance of possibly introducing a battleship-sized heavy logistics ship? A Tier 1/3 hull based ship with similar, if not the same bonuses as their cruiser-sized counterparts and an appropriately scaled-up allocation of slots based on the races' logistical bonuses. e.g. 8 high slots towards cap transfer and shield/armor reps for Caldari and Amarr. 6 for Gallente & Minmatar towards shield/armor reps and +1/2 mid or low slots to allow for tracking link fittings. Obviously not with the same insane resists and something more in line with a marauder. Disregarding these crappy balance suggestions and focusing on the core aspect - essentially a bigger version of the logistics ship that can do the RR job better although with all the usual disadvantages of going bigger: -longer training time required such as BS V, logistics to V etc. -battleship sized mass, agility and speed -T2 battleship production costs If this is a really fail idea, please tell me ASAP so I can reduce the amount of failage in my future posts.
AncientGuardian Gallente Intaki Liberation Front	Posted - 2008.10.24 14:14:00 - [2] The idea is good, but maybe not Battleship big. I was thinking more of BC big, that way its not total overkill. I like the idea in general
UrsaeMajoris	Posted - 2008.10.24 15:30:00 - [3] Edited by: UrsaeMajoris on 24/10/2008 15:31:40 Originally by: AncientGuardian The idea is good, but maybe not Battleship big. I was thinking more of BC big, that way its not total overkill. I like the idea in general Just as an example: T2 Myrmidon with oneiros bonuses (remove the drone and rep bonus), small boost to resists, keep the slot layout as it is and you get the idea. Decent heavy logistics ship.
procurement specialist	Posted - 2008.10.24 16:03:00 - [4] Originally by: UrsaeMajoris -longer training time required such as BS V, logistics to V etc. honestly i hate how to get any better than a logisitcs cruiser you have to get into a carrier hull currently. I don't beleive any t2 ship requires the prereq t2 ship of V however. The field command ship bc i know for a fact is only logistics 4. if this did have heavy logistics skill with logistics as a prereq i think a bonus based on the logistics skill instead of the battlecruiser/ship skill would be a nice change from the normal pattern. i support making it a bc hull instead of a bs hull too.
UrsaeMajoris	Posted - 2008.10.24 17:28:00 - [5] Edited by: UrsaeMajoris on 24/10/2008 17:28:07 Originally by: procurement specialist Originally by: UrsaeMajoris -longer training time required such as BS V, logistics to V etc. honestly i hate how to get any better than a logisitcs cruiser you have to get into a carrier hull currently. I don't beleive any t2 ship requires the prereq t2 ship of V however. The field command ship bc i know for a fact is only logistics 4. if this did have heavy logistics skill with logistics as a prereq i think a bonus based on the logistics skill instead of the battlecruiser/ship skill would be a nice change from the normal pattern. i support making it a bc hull instead of a bs hull too. Yeah, there's plenty of room for something in between cruiser logistics and a carrier.
Msgerbs Gallente Imperial Assualt Guild Infused Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.24 21:09:00 - [6] Originally by: UrsaeMajoris Just as an example: T2 Myrmidon with oneiros bonuses (remove the drone and rep bonus), small boost to resists, keep the slot layout as it is and you get the idea. Decent heavy logistics ship. How is that a logistics ship if it has no logistics bonuses?
NanDe YaNen The Funkalistic	Posted - 2008.10.24 21:29:00 - [7] Originally by: Msgerbs Originally by: UrsaeMajoris Just as an example: T2 Myrmidon with oneiros bonuses (remove the drone and rep bonus), small boost to resists, keep the slot layout as it is and you get the idea. Decent heavy logistics ship. How is that a logistics ship if it has no logistics bonuses? He's talking about removing the Myrm's God-given bonuses and replacing them with those of the Oneiros. Would take away the primary weakness of logistics by getting their EHP up to snuff, but... One problem is that logistics already can fit like four-five large reppers with buffed output. That's more than a pile of RR Mega's. Increasing the number of high slots wouldn't do so much, and all that's really boosted is EHP, while the speed and sig radius, things that help logistics cruisers survive, would be compromised. Such ships would also lose a bit of helpful scan resolution. Wouldn't it just make since to boost logistics HP up a bit? Something I've always thought would be cool is, instead of repping, remotely increasing the resists. For PvP, that seems like it'd be much more helpful. In addition, it would work well with logistics ships, acting like a force multiplier by increasing the value of their rep cycles. Remote resist boosting could also be used to cover a logistics ship, fixing the EHP problem when they're used in conjunction. Although, I'd really hate to give up the tier-2 BC hulls to a f&!^ing logistics ship. Same for tier-3 BS's.
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.25 01:09:00 - [8] if we where to get a bs sized logistics I'd like to see it given a way to help counter ff in small to medium blobs (30 - 100). Could be done through remote resists or large instant boost to shield/armour to give them a couple seconds to escape or just hold the enemy off for a couple seconds. I wouldn't want to see it be the exact same as the cruiser logistics only bigger, give it some bonus function.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities	Posted - 2008.10.25 01:36:00 - [9] Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 25/10/2008 01:37:57 Hmhm, on the one hand a BS-sized logistics ship might be a powerful and nice addition to the game. On the other hand I always dislike a 'bigger is better' approach. Having one ship of every role in every ship class might result in a boring game design and game. Personally I like irregularities and prefer some 'blank spaces' to be left blank. Therefore I vote to leave that role to the current cruiser-sized logistics. I also think it's pretty much realistic that certain ship sizes are best fit for certain roles. The engineers in EVE probably have decided that a T2 cruiser would be best fit for the logistics role. And of course there's the chance that a BS-sized logistics might create problems and hava a bad impact on gameplay.
procurement specialist	Posted - 2008.10.25 03:51:00 - [10] increase resists you mean besides http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/EN/shipequipment/gangassistmodules/20409.asp and http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/EN/shipequipment/gangassistmodules/20514.asp which do affect the whole gang

Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.25 06:49:00 - [11] Originally by: procurement specialist increase resists you mean besides http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/EN/shipequipment/gangassistmodules/20409.asp and http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/EN/shipequipment/gangassistmodules/20514.asp which do affect the whole gang I was thinking more along the lines of a single target res boost. Would suffer stacking penelty with all other resist mods still but would give around 45% res to each at max level. use 2 or 3 of these on a target thats getting primaried and your logistics can then help it hold out for a few seconds longer, possibly even keep it alive. ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Dr 0wnage The Dark Tribe	Posted - 2008.10.25 09:17:00 - [12] You would be amazed how well some current battleships can already perform this role. A domi with a pair of large remote armor reppers can make a huge impact on the outcome of a fight. Having a battleship with logistic role bonuses i think would be a great addition to the game. The tactic already exists and ive seen it used with good success. so why not take it to the next level?
dojocan81	Posted - 2008.10.25 10:11:00 - [13] sorry, but i dont think this idea would be good b/c this would make current existing logistics useless. noone would fly cruiser sized ships if they would exist other ships with the same "job" like logistics but with more hp, res and utility slots. sry
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2008.10.25 10:21:00 - [14] I have mixed feelings on this. Im all about adding 'healer classes' so its not all gank and tank or FOTM, but I worry that if its not done right we could end up with a situation like we have with carriers where you get a bunch of them together and theres no real way to fight them off other than More Dakka(tm). Perhaps for starters the existing logistics could get a boost. Theyre good, but not quite good enough to warrant flying one instead of a BS or HAC. _________________ [IMAGE REMOVED] -- aka Cpt Bogus -- Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Ocih	Posted - 2008.10.25 10:31:00 - [15] Edited by: Ocih on 25/10/2008 10:32:28 Seeing two, T2 battleships in the game that you never see in PvP, I am not sure what the point is in introducing a third. They are fat and useless in a game that has one grid fits all combat. When was the last time you broke out your Sin or Golem to go on a 0.0 sec Ops? Lets add a 3rd hull to the 'never undocks' list of assets. Keeping in mind, anything on this board that is a good idea and actually makes it in to game, wont be seen in game for 2 years, I want a real Battleship that can lock from 500 km out. Passive lock required, tracking speed outright sucks. Hit and miss combat but so is the case with long range bombardment. -KB edit
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2008.10.25 10:35:00 - [16] Well one of the reasons theyre not very common is the steep prereqs. It took about 8 months between when CS were introduced and when they really started becoming staple pewpew wagons, expect 10months to a year for t2 BS. Marauders are actually quite nasty with vampoc type fittings; if I had the skills and access to ez 500mil Id fly em. _________________ [IMAGE REMOVED] -- aka Cpt Bogus -- Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Ocih	Posted - 2008.10.25 10:43:00 - [17] Originally by: Del Narveux Well one of the reasons theyre not very common is the steep prereqs. It took about 8 months between when CS were introduced and when they really started becoming staple pewpew wagons, expect 10months to a year for t2 BS. Marauders are actually quite nasty with vampoc type fittings; if I had the skills and access to ez 500mil Id fly em. Yep and if I had a tail, I would be a cat. Nobody in Eve has half a billion ISK to put down on a 2 hr giggle. Add that much again for fit and rigs. When Marauders and Black Ops first came out, they ran 800 mill plus, so add 6 months to that year so Inventors can get caught up and make them 'affordable'.
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2008.10.27 01:12:00 - [18] Are you kidding me? I wandered over to the BoB killboard for some lolz, here are a few of what I found in their losses: -A CNR lost at 13:06 today. He was completely faction/deadspace fit. -At least six dreadnoughts today, which IIRC represents about a 500M loss each if insured and the modules arent recovered. One of them was faction fitted too, for extra hurty loss. (Im not including the titan as those losses arent really indicative of any long-term pattern) -A fleet tempest at 20:08 Saturday. -A faction-fitted Eos at 10:47 Saturday. -A faction-fitted Chimera at 21:47 Wednesday. So just in the last few days, one single alliance has provided quite a few examples of people more than willing to put up 500mil for a spot of pewpew. Is BoB an extreme case? Yes, but it still proves my point and bear in mind well fitted CS or nanoHAC are quite expensive in their own right, yet it hasnt stopped them from being extremely common once people mustered up the proper skills. Will everyone and their dog fly Marauders all the time once theyre trained? No, but not everyone and their dog flies the aforementioned CS/HAC right now. But a significant percentage will. _________________ [IMAGE REMOVED] -- aka Cpt Bogus -- Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?


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