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Voicelessly
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Posted - 2008.10.24 22:33:00 -
[1]
Hi, I'm a mining alt.
My main is not in a major alliance that provides ships for free from split profits and all that, and as so rolled me to fund the pew-pew. At least that's the plan. So I ran across a bunch of EFT warriors out there arguing over how much a mining alt can make, and I figured I'd throw out some real world numbers.
First about me: I'm the ultimate optimal path to flying a hulk on the cheap, as fast as possible, as calculated by eve-mon. I'm also a good refiner. That's all I can do. I use T1 gear and can do ice and normal mining.
Second about the modus operandi: I'm only used at work. The idea is that eve stays open in monitor left, work gets done in monitor right. As you can see, interaction with me should as small as possible.
So in theory, if I managed to find a single colossal Condensed Veldspar rock and just straight mined it 8 hours each work day, with infinite cargo space, I could probably make BIGINT isk per week. In reality, nothing even remotely close happens. Here's the data:
- I get about 5 or so hours in on average. There's meetings, other stuff.
- I prefer to rock mine for the higher isk, but that requires a lot more clicking and attention than ice mining. A lot of it is just ice mining.
- I don't even carry an asteroid scanner anymore. It's easier to just strip the belts as you go, scooping everything.
- Inefficiency is rampant: forgetting to dock, forgetting to warp, ending up wasing a 3 minute cycle on a rock with 1 ore piece left, etc
- Suicide ganking is a risk, but stick to boring regions to minimize it. I also T1 fit, cause really, the only thing you can gain from a t2 hulk in high sec is an extra ice cycle. Meh.
- A hulk can tank NPCs no problem. Ignore them.
- You will sell to buy orders. Yes, you can make BIGINT isk on sell orders, but that would require hauling from my nowhere-system to where actual trade happens, and that's way more effort than I care to put in. I also can't fly freighters, obviously.
So I promised numbers, and here's what I realistically do:
- per day, about 10m isk
- per work week, about 50m isk
I'm sure you eve warriors can do that in an hour in your amazing hulks from hell, but this is about what comes up in real life from 2nd desktop mining. It's enough to pay for insurance and fittings on ships, clearly not enough to save up for caps or any "end-game" stuff.
Not ever gonna threaten the 0.0 guys, but if you were a (hypothetically) Gallente FW guy who tends to go through ships sorta often, this is a viable way to go. |
Faife
Noctiscion
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Posted - 2008.10.24 22:36:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Faife on 24/10/2008 22:36:41
EDIT: combo breaker! |
Voicelessly
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Posted - 2008.10.24 22:36:00 -
[3]
TL;DR version:
you can fund FW pvp using a at-work mining char but it's not a way to become really wealthy |
Saint Lazarus
Spiorad ag fanaiocht
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Posted - 2008.10.25 00:23:00 -
[4]
Not to discourage you or throw ego around but...10mil a DAY really isnt that good, even for 5 very unattentive hours.
a few lvl 4's would do that in no time, which could use a combat main (cutting out the need to either train for hulk or waste time trainin it).
There are even ways to do missions with as little attention needed as possible, FoF's, drones Sentries etc. Hell a passive shield tanked Drake with FoF's could murder any lvl 3 and you could do it all day with less effort than mining and make much more (30mil as a rough guess).
Just givin a realistic review of the idea of a mining alt, seems a complete waste really.
-----------------
My EvE Comic
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Breaker77
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Posted - 2008.10.25 02:14:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Breaker77 on 25/10/2008 02:14:22
A hulk can make about 350,000 ISK per cycle (3 minutes) or about 1 million per 9 minutes just off of Veldspar.
In short, go away troll...
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.25 02:19:00 -
[6]
Oh yeah? I mine for TEN hours a day and get only 2 mil isk for it.
This is the "Worst players in EVE unite!" thread, right? |
Maj Kaji
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Posted - 2008.10.25 02:30:00 -
[7]
hi, im a mining alt! but after i get a hulk, I'll going into production and trade, :|. Think. industry character instead of plain mining. perhaps you should think about investing in bpos. make your own stuff with the ore you mine where your main fights off rats in 0.0 |
emf
Amarr
Knights Of the Black Sun
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Posted - 2008.10.25 02:33:00 -
[8]
Edited by: emf on 25/10/2008 02:35:26
 Originally by: Breaker77
Edited by: Breaker77 on 25/10/2008 02:14:22
A hulk can make about 350,000 ISK per cycle (3 minutes) or about 1 million per 9 minutes just off of Veldspar.
In short, go away troll...
A hulk with capital mining beams? Mmmmm.
I think the only viable way to make real isk mining is to get 0.0 access to some nice space. It really isn't that hard to do, lots of corps in 0.0 with very lax recruiting requirements. Crokite will make you MANY times that.
I went the way of the guy who ate chips off his belly from southpark in that WOW episode, invested in GTCs for 7 alts and trained them to 6 covetors and a mindlink BC quickly. Tiled 8 EVE windows over 2 monitors and went mining. Thought it would be more exciting than normal mining but it was boring as hell and drove me nuts with all the dragging and lag. I think towards the end it reached around 30 mil/hour per character, was just short of t2 crokite crystals.
Long story short I've sold them all and play poker for isk now.  Join channel eve online hold'em...
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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.25 05:49:00 -
[9]
When ice harvesting you're competing mostly against macros. They have no limits on time played (other than downtime) nor number of accounts.
If you were to harvest ice 23 hours a day you'd be pulling in closer to 50M a day. That's 1.5B a month, or 2.5B profit every 2 months after GTC costs. Per account. With 10 accounts you'd be doing quite well for yourself.
And that, in a nutshell, is pretty much why very few humans harvest ice in empire.
10M a day for 5 semi-afk hours is horrible. Assuming you pay for that account with GTC you're at a net... 0-50M isk every 2 months. If you're paying with $ you'd almost be better off cancelling that account and selling GTCs. In fact, selling the hulk & characters would put you waaay ahead.
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Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2008.10.25 06:32:00 -
[10]
No offense but Im not sure I buy your numbers. A long time ago when I could actually be bothered to employ effort, I mined occasionally and IIRC I pulled in about 2mil per hour in an osprey or ~3mil in a retriever. Prices have gone up substantially since then so I would say you really should be getting like 5mil+ per hour with a hulk, minimum. Mind you thats minerals not ice, as has been said ice is a very poor income choice due to macros and price-cap issues for POS profits.
Mining income definitely sucks compared to missions, mostly due to macros, but unfortunately there isnt much to be done about it since the macros arent going anywhere.
_________________
[IMAGE REMOVED]
-- aka Cpt Bogus --
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.10.25 06:45:00 -
[11]
my alt can mine, but why mine when he can run level 4 missions  |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.10.25 07:35:00 -
[12]
So you don't give it the full attention, you don't have optimal gear and you didn't think things through, yet somehow that means that it's the game's fault you're not making a lot of money so you can't fly caps?
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Lazuran
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.10.25 11:01:00 -
[13]
Not to be rude or something, but why bother "working" in a second window? Concentrate on your job, do it better, perhaps work 1-2 hours overtime and buy 1 GTC every 8 weeks or so to sell for 500m.
Don't tell me you actually enjoy doing this kind of "EVE work".
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Danae Ori
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Posted - 2008.10.25 11:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
So you don't give it the full attention, you don't have optimal gear and you didn't think things through, yet somehow that means that it's the game's fault you're not making a lot of money so you can't fly caps?
I don't think he said it was the "game's fault". He was only giving his own anecdote from RL experience. Less nerd-rage next time plx.
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Heikki
Gallente
Wreckless Abandon
G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.25 11:42:00 -
[15]
Good post, thank you. Seems too many result posts, both here in forums and in RL science publishing, get posted only when they reach or exceed the expected results.
Optimistic 'ISK per hour' calculations are seldom the same as 'real world average'.
-Lasse
who got the 'Reply' button right this time
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
Art of War
Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.10.25 11:50:00 -
[16]
I don't mine but many of my friends do. What I've gathered they can easily make at least 5mil/hour afk mining in hulk. That would be 25mil per hour. So I'd argue a bit about your numbers. There's a truth though, that mining in high sec is not profitable, if mining anywhere really.
In my experience it's just better to find hauler spawns or drone loot or just buy minerals from macros at market :P
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Vele Nori
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.25 11:53:00 -
[17]
It sounds like you afk a lot doing it from work. Also do you haul your minerals to the closest trade hub? Because you can get 20-40% profit from them hauling completely afk on autopilot in a hauler. No one's going to suicide gank you unless you load up 100+ mil worth of stuff so you're safe autopiloting with your 30-50 mil worth of mins.
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Shirley Serious
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.25 12:05:00 -
[18]
An actual second account?
sounds expensive... Is there a reason why? Your main's CEO spying on your API sort of thing?
If you're only used at work, then presumably, your other character is offline.
And if you have the skills already trained, you'd be as well to consolidate onto your main's account.
That said, I think I'm getting what you're saying. There's a lot of hyperbole and exaggeration from people on the forums, is that it?
Yes.
Yes, I am. |
Wadaya
Caldari
Trailerpark Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.25 12:55:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
my alt can mine, but why mine when he can run level 4 missions
Why run missions or mine when market orders last 90 days?
Wad
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Core Researcher
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Posted - 2008.10.25 15:23:00 -
[20]
Im with the OP, you here a lot of crap spouted about ISK/H but in a max skilled Hulk im lucky to make 3m/h and im pretty sure im not doing anything wrong.
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.10.25 15:34:00 -
[21]
she's ice mining in a hulk and selling to buy orders ... what are you people so surprised about ?
--- SIG ---
CSM: your support is needed ! |
Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.10.25 15:56:00 -
[22]
I think the point the OP is trying to make is that in a situation where he/she could give very little time to play the game during the day he/she was still able to make 10 million isk simply by mining. If your in a situation where you can have eve running and do something else this is quite handy, if your willing to risk the suicide attack or be mistaken as a macro miner. |
Breaker77
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Posted - 2008.10.25 16:20:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Core Researcher
Im with the OP, you here a lot of crap spouted about ISK/H but in a max skilled Hulk im lucky to make 3m/h and im pretty sure im not doing anything wrong.
I'll try to break this down very simple
hulk with T2 crystals mining Veldspar, T1 mining drones, and 2 Erin mining upgrades yield approx 4,500 m3 of veldspar per cycle (3 minutes). This 45,000 units of Veld with refining 4 and veldspar processing 4 (both needed for T2 crystals) yields 126,500 units of Trit (depending on station standing, ect...).
So in 1 hour (20 cycles) this comes to 2,530,000 units of trit. Sell this for say 2.59 ISK a unit and you get 6,555,194 ISK per hour.
Now depending on refining skills, station standings, MLUs, mining drone level, exhumer level, ore density, and hauler or mining bonuses (not really able to do solo) this can easily go well over 10 million an hour.
Go to the best MLUs and T2 drones and it's 7,775,498 an hour. All dense veld is over 8.5 million.
These numbers are just Veldspar, think about Kernite which goes over 9 million with the above numbers.
Stop refining and then right-clicking, clicking on sell, then OK!!! Check out the details and move minerals around or setup sell orders.
TLDR: you're doing it wrong!!! |
Miter
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.26 11:33:00 -
[24]
Wait.. wait.. no you're doing this exactly right. Where do you mine again? I'd like to *cough* put up some buy orders....
This is not a signature. |
Core Researcher
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Posted - 2008.10.26 12:41:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Breaker77
approx 4,500 m3 of veldspar per cycle (3 minutes)......
....So in 1 hour (20 cycles) this comes to 2,530,000 units of trit. Sell this for say 2.59 ISK a unit and you get 6,555,194 ISK per hour.....
yes, I hear docking, server lag, incomplete cycles due to asteroid depletion dont factor into these equations at all. More bull**** really isnt it?
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Breaker77
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Posted - 2008.10.26 13:33:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Core Researcher
Originally by: Breaker77
approx 4,500 m3 of veldspar per cycle (3 minutes)......
....So in 1 hour (20 cycles) this comes to 2,530,000 units of trit. Sell this for say 2.59 ISK a unit and you get 6,555,194 ISK per hour.....
yes, I hear docking, server lag, incomplete cycles due to asteroid depletion dont factor into these equations at all. More bull**** really isnt it?
I'm sorry you have no idea what you're doing.
Can I have your stuff?? |
Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.10.26 14:55:00 -
[27]
By not carrying a survey scanner you're wasting so much time it's unreal.
You mine in the most lazy fashion as possible. and post about how you don't make tons of money? Well duh.
I fail to see the reason why you even bothered to post this. |
Sandrell Tershiq
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Posted - 2008.10.26 15:12:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Rhatar Khurin
By not carrying a survey scanner you're wasting so much time it's unreal.
You mine in the most lazy fashion as possible. and post about how you don't make tons of money? Well duh.
I fail to see the reason why you even bothered to post this.
he bothered to post it to show how RL mining techniques differed from EVE forum uber-mining riches making
people whinging about 2nd accounts and mining profits outweighing 'proper' gaming are shown to be way off the mark when it comes to reality
i fail to see the reason why you even bother to breathe... 
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Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.10.26 15:17:00 -
[29]
Perhaps i was being a grumpy old git.
But they would make so much more money if they just mined more efficiently, fitting cargo optimisation rigs for example would increase profits by loads.
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RedLion
Caldari
Polaris Project
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.26 16:21:00 -
[30]
Don't sell to buy orders in remote regions :s |
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