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Ribijk
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Posted - 2008.10.25 19:03:00 -
[1]
Will the huggin and raiper be ok still after the upcoming nerfs?
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.25 19:04:00 -
[2]
They'll be even more in demand than falcons.
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goodby4u
Valor Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.25 19:05:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Malcanis They'll be even more in demand than falcons.
Eh? Why is that? Their webbing is getting nerfed aswell as their speed...
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Ribijk
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Posted - 2008.10.25 19:06:00 -
[4]
Really?, Everyones talking like this is going to be the death of minmitar..
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Ribijk
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Posted - 2008.10.25 19:07:00 -
[5]
Originally by: goodby4u
Originally by: Malcanis They'll be even more in demand than falcons.
Eh? Why is that? Their webbing is getting nerfed aswell as their speed...
Everyone's webbing is getting nerfed, these ships will have the furthest webbing distance and strength by far because webbing is their specialty.
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Jodie Amille
Gunship Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.10.25 19:07:00 -
[6]
WTS sarcasm detector
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Ribijk
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Posted - 2008.10.25 19:09:00 -
[7]
I'm confused here.
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goodby4u
Valor Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.25 19:09:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ribijk
Originally by: goodby4u
Originally by: Malcanis They'll be even more in demand than falcons.
Eh? Why is that? Their webbing is getting nerfed aswell as their speed...
Everyone's webbing is getting nerfed, these ships will have the furthest webbing distance and strength by far because webbing is their specialty.
But the web nerf is a nerf on their ewar, thats like saying that if ecm were nerfed falcons would be more valuable.
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Ribijk
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Posted - 2008.10.25 19:10:00 -
[9]
Well yeah, they would still do EW better then anyone else by far, making you need them.
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goodby4u
Valor Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.25 19:11:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ribijk Well yeah, they would still do EW better then anyone else by far, making you need them.
But why not just change to a different ewar strategy? I mean an arazu with scramblers can nock anything out of mwd at about 25km.
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Ribijk
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Posted - 2008.10.25 19:12:00 -
[11]
I'm just asking, Are these ships still good enough to fly...
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.25 19:15:00 -
[12]
Will you still need to web people after nerf? Yes. Will target painting be more important after patch? Yes. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Tempest of Change |
Radcjk
Caldari Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2008.10.25 19:59:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Radcjk on 25/10/2008 19:59:14
Originally by: goodby4u But the web nerf is a nerf on their ewar, thats like saying that if ecm were nerfed falcons would be more valuable.
Assuming this isn't a well concealed troll, that's exactly what happened.
ECM got nerfed. ECM ships got buffed to keep it useful. Thus the present day falcon was born, which has more ecm strength bonus than its earlier generation predecessors.
Why wouldn't matari recons be in demand when every one elses webs blow ? |
Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.10.25 20:06:00 -
[14]
Technically, the job a Huggin/Raiper does is required no matter what. You might not need a speciality ship but you DO need effective tackle. The job a falcon does howver is never an absolute requirement. Afterall, there is no defense or offensive that can't be overcome with enough blobbing. |
goodby4u
Valor Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.25 20:39:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Radcjk Edited by: Radcjk on 25/10/2008 19:59:14
Originally by: goodby4u But the web nerf is a nerf on their ewar, thats like saying that if ecm were nerfed falcons would be more valuable.
Assuming this isn't a well concealed troll, that's exactly what happened.
ECM got nerfed. ECM ships got buffed to keep it useful. Thus the present day falcon was born, which has more ecm strength bonus than its earlier generation predecessors.
Why wouldn't matari recons be in demand when every one elses webs blow ?
Was the falcon more or less usefull after the nerf and before the buff? I would say less and thats the state the huginn and rapier would be in. |
Vanthropy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.25 23:12:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Will you still need to web people after nerf? Yes. Will target painting be more important after patch? Yes.
this is all rapier/huginn pilots need to know
/thread |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.25 23:14:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 25/10/2008 23:14:34 The Rapier will be fine (the Huginn, like all combat recons, will continue to suck). It's actually hurt much more by the speed nerf than the web nerf, as now it will be very difficult to keep a Rapier alive for long. Its webbing, on the other hand, will be reduced, but still very effective. Keep in mind that speeds overall have been nerfed, and the ships that make best use of a 40km web (IOW, mid/long-range ships) have the tracking to hit just fine with only 60% webs. It's the close-range blaster/AC ships that are hurt the most by the web nerf, but since they engage within 10km anyway, they don't need a Rapier. |
Captator
Universal Securities
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Posted - 2008.10.25 23:31:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 25/10/2008 23:14:34 The Rapier will be fine (the Huginn, like all combat recons, will continue to suck). It's actually hurt much more by the speed nerf than the web nerf, as now it will be very difficult to keep a Rapier alive for long. Its webbing, on the other hand, will be reduced, but still very effective. Keep in mind that speeds overall have been nerfed, and the ships that make best use of a 40km web (IOW, mid/long-range ships) have the tracking to hit just fine with only 60% webs. It's the close-range blaster/AC ships that are hurt the most by the web nerf, but since they engage within 10km anyway, they don't need a Rapier.
I would debate this point, now that base speed has become more important, and the increase of speed you can generate with modules is lower, the huginn starts off being quite a bit faster than most ships in its class (e.g: curse with 2 OD 16-1700m/s, huginn with no speed mods 15-1600m/s). I have pretty low skills in minmatar relevant weaponry, though recon 5, and I could take a huginn against a hurricane and a cyclone and have a serious chance of winning, though a rifter with a scram put paid to that plan, as I only had 2 webs . I would argue that the huginn is now better in small gangs, and equally effective as before in fleet, but with lower survivability than before.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.25 23:35:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Captator I would debate this point, now that base speed has become more important, and the increase of speed you can generate with modules is lower, the huginn starts off being quite a bit faster than most ships in its class (e.g: curse with 2 OD 16-1700m/s, huginn with no speed mods 15-1600m/s). I have pretty low skills in minmatar relevant weaponry, though recon 5, and I could take a huginn against a hurricane and a cyclone and have a serious chance of winning, though a rifter with a scram put paid to that plan, as I only had 2 webs . I would argue that the huginn is now better in small gangs, and equally effective as before in fleet, but with lower survivability than before.
Base speed is fine, if you're talking about just staying out of range (IOW, fighting blaster/AC ships). But against ships that can actually hit you at 40-50km (lasers/missiles/drones), you need high speed to dodge tracking. The post-nerf Rapier just isn't going to have that anymore, meanwhile laser/missile/drone ships are going to become even more popular than they already are. ----------- Blaster sig removed for now, pending those "changes we've been working on all day". CCP, don't screw this up.
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.10.26 21:59:00 -
[20]
Edited by: P''uck on 26/10/2008 22:05:11 I'd say, if the rapier/huginn and maybe hyena get a webstrength bonus (edit: just like the ECM ships got back then, when ECM was nerfed the last time), then yea, they will be tasty. But if not, I really don't see why the gallente recons wouldnt look a whole lot better all of a sudden...
Oh and something else that's bugging me... with the web and TP bonus the minnie recons always were the rock to the interceptor's scissors... maybe I was reading the game wrong, but that's what it always smelt like.
And now, if you're lucky, you can get ****d by a pair of inties, probably |
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Solid Prefekt
Minmatar Haven Front
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Posted - 2008.10.27 01:46:00 -
[21]
Rapier/Huginn is already the main primary and, unlike the Falcon, it needs to stay near the battle field. The Falcon has effectively doubled its distance due to the Speed rebalancing. And I don't see how TPs will be that much more popular unless everyone switches to missile boats. The Rapier does not even use missiles so it would not get any advantage over its own bonus.
The Rapier/Huginn is really only a value where you are ganking or blobbing someone. In an even fight you will be dead 90% of the time (as you are primary) unless you run away which will be harder after the changes.
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Evan Batarr
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Posted - 2008.10.27 04:53:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Captator I have pretty low skills in minmatar relevant weaponry, though recon 5, and I could take a huginn against a hurricane and a cyclone and have a serious chance of winning if they were both afk
Fixed it for you.
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