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Jack Bombardier
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Posted - 2008.10.25 21:43:00 -
[1]
What fighters are the best? Some are faster. Some target better, some have more health and the damage types differ but which are better when?
Drone control units do apply to fighters right? This has been my experience but recently I have been using other fitings and now a friend swears that they only apply to drones and not fighters. Even though I'm pretty sure fighters are a kind of drone.
Is there any point to learning Capital remote hull repair systems? |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.25 21:49:00 -
[2]
Fighters: use a mix
DCU's: don't fit them, not worth it
Hull reps: good for repping pos mods, other caps, freighters etc.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart |
Jack Bombardier
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Posted - 2008.10.25 22:07:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Jack Bombardier on 25/10/2008 22:08:59
Well I already have Capital Armor repair which repairs a great many times more than the hull repair. Hull repair would be something to do in between fights then?
Also my main carrier duty is to hand out fighters. Not to engage with other ships. Hence the DCU's should be very usefull.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.25 22:13:00 -
[4]
DCU's are never useful, trust me.
And hull reps shouldn't be fit permanently, but carrying one for emergency reps is very helpful.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart |
Jack Bombardier
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Posted - 2008.10.25 22:18:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Sokratesz
DCU's are never useful, trust me.
Well I can't just take your word on it without any facts to back it up. This isn't church.
Nothing personal. This is just a very.... expensive endevour if done wrong. |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.25 22:22:00 -
[6]
Yes, and DCU's won;t save you. Remote rep mods, a cloak, a neut and a smartbomb will, however. A DCU adds 10% dps, woop-dee-doo. A smartbomb adds +100% point defence, a cloak +100% AFK ness and remote rep mods are a huge force multiplier. |
Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.25 22:54:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Yes, and DCU's won;t save you. Remote rep mods, a cloak, a neut and a smartbomb will, however. A DCU adds 10% dps, woop-dee-doo. A smartbomb adds +100% point defence, a cloak +100% AFK ness and remote rep mods are a huge force multiplier.
Not that I'm saying you're wrong or anything, but doesn't a DCU II add 15% to armour DPS?
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2008.10.25 22:57:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Misanth on 25/10/2008 22:57:45
Basicly what Sok is saying. I never fly my Archon without the 4 basics; Heavy Neut, Smartbomb, Remote Armor + Remote Energy transfer. The 5th is either a 2nd smartbomb or a cloak, depending on what my duty is at the point. Doesn't matter if it's travelling, defensive of offensive, I always expect a fight and this is the ideal imho.
In a Thanatos, obviously I'd swap the remote energy transfer for some remote shield transfer instead.
Originally by: Jack Bombardier
Well I can't just take your word on it without any facts to back it up. This isn't church.
Nothing personal. This is just a very.... expensive endevour if done wrong.
Fair enough to think that way, but meh, read what Sok said. The point is basicly that neut/sb gives you alot of utility while DCU's don't. If you're on travelmode and engage solo, it's very very likely you'll die, thus.. don't travel solo. The rep will keep others up, which keeps you up.
I can think of a couple of times I got out safe because I smartbombed light dictors and neuted heavy dictors, where a DCU wouldn't havn't helped me much at all. Even if you hug a POS shield you will be tackled, and bumped, and that time you really wish your DCU was something useful instead.
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Sokratesz
Yes, and DCU's won;t save you. Remote rep mods, a cloak, a neut and a smartbomb will, however. A DCU adds 10% dps, woop-dee-doo. A smartbomb adds +100% point defence, a cloak +100% AFK ness and remote rep mods are a huge force multiplier.
Not that I'm saying you're wrong or anything, but doesn't a DCU II add 15% to armour DPS?
They're talking about Drone Control Unit, not Damage Control (DC). 
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Jordan Musgrat
H A V O C
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.26 00:16:00 -
[9]
Ya, people use DCU to refer to both dmg control and drone control unit. Damage control makes sense on carriers, and I have seen it save people, so the sweeping generalized statement "never fit it" is simply wrong. 90% of the time in a carrier, either you're going to die or not, no matter what you have fitted. It's that 10% of the time that you're fitting for, for when backup is on the way, or you just need a few more minutes to pop some more dreads and whittle down their dps. It does best on armor tanking carriers/MS that use membranes for their tank, because it's another 15% unpenalized resist, and adds a whole lot of HP through hull. Drone control units on the other hand, are great as long as you never leave a pos. So in your case, use them. |
Artemis Rose
Varion Galactic
Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.10.26 02:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jack Bombardier
Originally by: Sokratesz
DCU's are never useful, trust me.
Well I can't just take your word on it without any facts to back it up. This isn't church.
Nothing personal. This is just a very.... expensive endevour if done wrong.
DCUs are pointless because you are in an Carrier, you are never in a gang for the DPS. You have MUCH better highslot options.
Smartbombs protect you from drones/idiot player tacklers/citadel torps, Heavy Neuts protect you from pesky tacklers, cloaks are important and you are there to remote repair something. All of these combine to be much more important to your gang and to your personal safety.
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Xiaodown
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.26 04:04:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jack Bombardier
Originally by: Sokratesz
DCU's are never useful, trust me.
Well I can't just take your word on it without any facts to back it up. This isn't church.
Nothing personal. This is just a very.... expensive endevour if done wrong.
If it matters to you, Sokratesz has been doing the capital and supercapital thing for a long time. Sok recently lost a mothership that had been in more fights than you can shake a stick at, and was several years old, IIRC. When the tri killboard is up and running again, look for Sok's wyvren loss - the fit follows what he says here.
~X
--
Sig under construction.
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Mo adib
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Posted - 2008.10.26 04:12:00 -
[12]
keep in mind however that sok is often fighting with lots of other capital ships and support fleet, if this is not going to be the case for the op then his advice may not apply.
personally on my thanny I dont fit a drone control unit anymore but that is because I got carrier 5, if you are gonna fly a thanny I highly recommend getting carriers 5 and fighters 5, it makes the ship pack a hell of a punch and remote rep alot of both shields and armor from I think 52 km away, not to mention you can still use 10 fighters and have all the high slots free.
btw 1 sensor booster and 1 eccm gravi are mandatory in my book, it is still totally possible to permarun two capital reps with only 3 cap rechargers in the mids and 3 cap rigs so dont let that worry you to much.
in the end though it depends on what kind of fighting you are going to be doing, if you are gonna be solo you can kiss that ship goodbye right now, if you are going to be with other capital fleets talk to the other cap pilots in your group and see what they recommend, I hope for your sake they are competent.
Also and this one is the most important thing, DO NOT FLY IT UNLESS YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE IT.
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Aaron Mirrorsaver
R.E.C.O.N.
The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.10.26 05:46:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Aaron Mirrorsaver on 26/10/2008 05:50:13
id train fighters to 5 before carrier level 5 if i wanted damage. i know carrier level 5 gives a host of other bonuses but you live without them rigth?
fighters 5 = 20% more damage.
carrier 5 = 5% more damage for fighters. so what about an extra fighter :P
as for which fighters to use, in the end they all the same damage when you calculate the stats.
some do damage in less amount of time (quicker refire rate) some do higher alpha strikes ( slow fire rate but higher damage modifier)
if its a close range fight and small gang carrier support stuff then id use templars, since there alpha is highest i believe.
if its fleet fighting where all your carriers are sending your fighters far off to some sniping bs fleet thats bubbled, id use the minmatar fighter(einherjar) as i believe its the fastest and speed is critical in that situation, getting your fighters where they need to be.
as it is i have templars,ein,firbolg, with the latter 2 in bulk more so than the templar.
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Jack Bombardier
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Posted - 2008.10.26 09:28:00 -
[14]
What about heavy energy neutralizers? Should I bring more of those? |
Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.26 09:52:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Misanth
Edited by: Misanth on 25/10/2008 22:57:45
Basicly what Sok is saying. I never fly my Archon without the 4 basics; Heavy Neut, Smartbomb, Remote Armor + Remote Energy transfer. The 5th is either a 2nd smartbomb or a cloak, depending on what my duty is at the point. Doesn't matter if it's travelling, defensive of offensive, I always expect a fight and this is the ideal imho.
In a Thanatos, obviously I'd swap the remote energy transfer for some remote shield transfer instead.
Originally by: Jack Bombardier
Well I can't just take your word on it without any facts to back it up. This isn't church.
Nothing personal. This is just a very.... expensive endevour if done wrong.
Fair enough to think that way, but meh, read what Sok said. The point is basicly that neut/sb gives you alot of utility while DCU's don't. If you're on travelmode and engage solo, it's very very likely you'll die, thus.. don't travel solo. The rep will keep others up, which keeps you up.
I can think of a couple of times I got out safe because I smartbombed light dictors and neuted heavy dictors, where a DCU wouldn't havn't helped me much at all. Even if you hug a POS shield you will be tackled, and bumped, and that time you really wish your DCU was something useful instead.
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Sokratesz
Yes, and DCU's won;t save you. Remote rep mods, a cloak, a neut and a smartbomb will, however. A DCU adds 10% dps, woop-dee-doo. A smartbomb adds +100% point defence, a cloak +100% AFK ness and remote rep mods are a huge force multiplier.
Not that I'm saying you're wrong or anything, but doesn't a DCU II add 15% to armour DPS?
They're talking about Drone Control Unit, not Damage Control (DC).
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Jack Bombardier
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Posted - 2008.10.26 10:16:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jack Bombardier on 26/10/2008 10:22:02
Oh and a quick question. Since you can only fit 20 fighters in the Thanatos drone bay at a time and you can expect losses in larger battles. Is there any efficient way to move the fighters into action?
Being 5000m3 each in size even the corporate hangar only offers storage for an additional 2 fighters. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2008.10.26 10:44:00 -
[17]
I don't know about other pilots, but personally in the latest fleet fights I been in my fighters get shot down faster than I can recall them. One flight of fighters = 150mil. Throwing out two flights of fighters is 300 down the drain for very little use, tbh. Actually last time I used it was against Tri + BoB in TVN, bastard support shot down my fighters biting their dreads. 
Honestly, in a cap vs cap or vs a POS, I would consider sentry drones. As I said tho, I fly Archon and not Thanatos so no bonus to damage, but still.
I tend to fly around with one flight of fighters and a few spares. There's times where fighters are just awsome, and other times where you just want to lay down damage but you have very high risk losing the drones. It's not uncommon in fleets that you have 5min+ delay on recalling drones due to lag, and/or getting doomsdays, and/or have support shooting down your fighters to keep their caps safe, etc.
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Jack Bombardier
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Posted - 2008.10.26 11:01:00 -
[18]
Yeah that's what I worry about. I can only store 20 fighters so if I assign 10 fighters to an attack force and all are lost then that's 200 million down. In the meantime I will only have an additional 10 fighters before I run out completely.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.26 11:03:00 -
[19]
Fit one flight of fighters with 5 spare or so, and just stock like 1k heavy t1 drones and sentries..disposable and not much less effective at all.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2008.10.26 12:50:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Misanth on 26/10/2008 12:50:30
Originally by: Sokratesz
Fit one flight of fighters with 5 spare or so, and just stock like 1k heavy t1 drones and sentries..disposable and not much less effective at all.
Similar to what I'm having. My basic rundown would be ~15 fighters, ~20 t1 Sentry, ~20 t1 Heavies, ~20 Warrior II's (some annoying light tacklers while travelling, you never know), ~30 ECM drones of different sizes, coupled with some Shield Maintenance bots as I run armor/energy transfer. There's situations where it's nice if you can rep your pals.
Alot cheaper than 20 fighters and alot more versatile.
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Aaron Mirrorsaver
R.E.C.O.N.
The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.10.27 12:16:00 -
[21]
20? are you kidding? and when you circle the wagon in a desparate situation how long you think the drones will last?
for my part i have 100 sentries, 100 heavies, 100 mediums 100 lights etc...
20 of each are tech 2, the rest throw away tech 1. with 15 fighters, and i think im at 81k usage in the bay.
so the 80k of the other carriers besides thanny is quite enough to fit a decent amount of drones.
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