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McFly
C0LDFIRE
RUDE Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.27 20:02:00 -
[1]
I've been trying to do the math on this, but can't quite figure it out. Too many mismatching values in the various skills. So Eve People lemme know what you guys think becuase I've not figured it out.
Hulk Character: (Exhumers V)
2x T2 Mining Upgrades
3x T1 Strip Miners (too lazy to bother with crystals)
1x Highwall HX-1
Mackinaw Character: (Exhumers V)
2x T2 Ice Upgrades
2x T2 Ice Harvestors
1x Yeti BX-1
Orca Character:
1x Range Link
1x Cycle Reduction Link
Warfare Link Specialist IV
Mining Director V
Industrial Command Ship IV
MindLink
That's what I'm looking at, But just trying to figure out a math expression I could use for the values to put into an excel sheet. There are sheets out there but the one's I've seen require macros and the API and aren't manually adjusted for some odd reason.
Thanks all
--McFly-- |
Menthal
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.27 20:39:00 -
[2]
the bonuses from the orca at that lvl:
cycle time: 134.64 sec
range: 23.40km
pretty yellow beams
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McFly
C0LDFIRE
RUDE Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.27 23:11:00 -
[3]
Any chance someone would be kind enough to give me the expressions so I can put it into my spreadsheet?
I'm guessing those are the figures for the hulk, what about the mack?
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Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.28 01:17:00 -
[4]
Dunno about the hard numbers as I rarely do the eft thing with sisi available. But from my testing to make an orca a cost effective and not e-peen addition to your mining op you will need 5 normal hulks or 4 max skill hulks with implants and a rigged itty V. So a 6 to 7 man op is mandatory to even get any value out of the orca. However if CCP added 1 compression line or about 350k m3 total space to store ore it would be viable for a 5 man op with 4 hulks and 1 orca warping to staion to dump ore. Yes you lose a bit of bonus warping but with compression or a much larger cargo capacity its negligable at worst.
Buff Teh Orca! 
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Jonna Andromedae
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Posted - 2008.10.28 11:10:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Zeba
Dunno about the hard numbers as I rarely do the eft thing with sisi available. But from my testing to make an orca a cost effective and not e-peen addition to your mining op you will need 5 normal hulks or 4 max skill hulks with implants and a rigged itty V. So a 6 to 7 man op is mandatory to even get any value out of the orca. However if CCP added 1 compression line or about 350k m3 total space to store ore it would be viable for a 5 man op with 4 hulks and 1 orca warping to staion to dump ore. Yes you lose a bit of bonus warping but with compression or a much larger cargo capacity its negligable at worst.
Buff Teh Orca!
I think it's ok for now. Good for small corps, not so good for single man corp with alts. Compression would be nice or larger cargo bay, just because the rigged itty V will still have hard time to haul all that stuff.
Any word about the industrial ship buff/nerf? |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.29 09:06:00 -
[6]
I'm still looking at it as currently people that run 2 hulks + hauler will win with 2 hulks + orca, even if the gang links only run part of the time, it needs to haul less often and actually CAN run the gang links.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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Korizan
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Posted - 2008.10.29 13:54:00 -
[7]
WHen we left 0.0 we kept the same mining op setup
1 EOS links and implant
1 Hauler
2 Hulks
There are just too many advantages to having a dedicated buff ship.
The links are always on.
Defense or perma tank if need be
It can salvage RAT wrecks and collect the loot from them as well.
I have considered replacing the EOS with the Ocra but the problem is the links will shut off and going from 22km (for a normal T1 strip all V with appropriate skills) to 14 can be a real pain if you are mining @ any distance.
So the end result is our hauler is going to get the Orca, I will continue as before.
Orca really is a hauler.
Like the Rorqual it can be used for links but you would need a much bigger operation to merit it.
Interestingly for 0.0 a ROrqual @ the POS and a Ocra doing the hauling would be very nice.
SO the bottom line in my opinion the smallest op to use links effectively is 4.
You can do it with 3 but with only one miner it really is a waste and might as well just use 2 hulks with no links.
But that is my intitial opinion.
When the Orca comes out something might change.
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Howard Atkins
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Posted - 2008.10.29 14:21:00 -
[8]
The orca with its current values is way more than a hauler. It will replace the Eos/Vulture in our bigger mining gangs, because this saves a lot of haulers.
Example given:
10 People are mining. Usually its 1 Booster, 3 Haulers, 6 Barges. The booster pilot is bored, the haulers have to fly around and gather the crap from six different containers, and so on.
With Orca:
10 People are mining. 1 Booster / Can-organizer in the orca, 1 Hauler, 8 Miners + greater Mining Bonus from the skill Mining Command ship (+3% per Skill level) that is not given by the Vulture/Eos/whatever. The Orca gathers the cans and buffers the ore in the cargohold+corphangar, 1 full rigged Occator is warping Orca<>Station/POS to drop the ore. In highsec, the buffering of teh ore in the orca prevents ore theft (which also makes more than 1 or 2 haulers obsolete, as they are often only parked near two miners to pack the ore faster out of the cans than someone could steal it).
Outcome: A lot more ore in the above example. 2 more dedicated barge pilots. Bigger boni. Less stress for the haulers. A not-so-bored Commandship pilot. More ISK.
Or am i thinking wrong somewhere...?
:)
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Korizan
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Posted - 2008.10.29 14:37:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Howard Atkins
The orca with its current values is way more than a hauler. It will replace the Eos/Vulture in our bigger mining gangs, because this saves a lot of haulers.
Example given:
10 People are mining. Usually its 1 Booster, 3 Haulers, 6 Barges. The booster pilot is bored, the haulers have to fly around and gather the crap from six different containers, and so on.
With Orca:
10 People are mining. 1 Booster / Can-organizer in the orca, 1 Hauler, 8 Miners + greater Mining Bonus from the skill Mining Command ship (+3% per Skill level) that is not given by the Vulture/Eos/whatever. The Orca gathers the cans and buffers the ore in the cargohold+corphangar, 1 full rigged Occator is warping Orca<>Station/POS to drop the ore. In highsec, the buffering of teh ore in the orca prevents ore theft (which also makes more than 1 or 2 haulers obsolete, as they are often only parked near two miners to pack the ore faster out of the cans than someone could steal it).
Outcome: A lot more ore in the above example. 2 more dedicated barge pilots. Bigger boni. Less stress for the haulers. A not-so-bored Commandship pilot. More ISK.
Or am i thinking wrong somewhere...?
:)
You are right one of the reasons my corp has been going back and forth on this.
There are details that make it a drawback.
1. How many links can the Orca run, it looks like only 1 normally., I hope I am wrong here.
2. 6 HULKS in one belt would be ugly I can see 3 maybe 4 before you are wasting cycles do to roid pops.
3. I want another high slot for that salvager (Yes i want it all)
4. Well a drone bay to support 5 small & 5 medium drones would be nice for s unarmed sub capital it should have this.
But don't get me wron I am agreeing with you the larger the OP the greater the benefit to using a Orca.
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Howard Atkins
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Posted - 2008.10.29 15:37:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Howard Atkins on 29/10/2008 15:48:38
Edited by: Howard Atkins on 29/10/2008 15:47:54
Edited by: Howard Atkins on 29/10/2008 15:38:03
According to Sisi changes and CCP whatwashisnameagain, the orca will be modified to run 3 command modules. As we all know, 2 of them are usefull (range/yield), and one is totally useless (Energy need reduction (except for maybe battleship mining, but who does that...)). And third slot is used by the tractor beam (70km range, 1km/s speed). Yeah, a fourth slot would be nice ;)
Several Hulks in different belts is a logistic nightmare, so it probably - specially with the orca - would be better to just totally strip a belt of ALL ore there, and then move on to the next :)
Btw, rumors say it will get another med-slot ... 4 in total then. I wonder what to fit in the medslots :)
Edit:
Dronebay changes: 75m¦ Bay, 50Mbit bandwidth, at the moment.
Edit2:
Thread that explains the changes on Sisi atm + the name of the CCP guy who confirmed it will be able to run 3 gang modules, clicky here
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Revelation Space
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Posted - 2008.10.29 16:56:00 -
[11]
Just in case noone else points this out, the bonuses on the Orca are on the test server, which are subject to change.
Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator |
Korizan
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Posted - 2008.10.29 17:30:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Korizan on 29/10/2008 17:31:56
Very nice I guess the Orca is in and the Eos get's retired (For high-sec ops)
IF CCP doesn't give me my high slot we can always put the salvager on the hauler instead of that tractor beam 
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.29 19:21:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Korizan
WHen we left 0.0 we kept the same mining op setup
1 EOS links and implant
1 Hauler
2 Hulks
There are just too many advantages to having a dedicated buff ship.
The links are always on.
Defense or perma tank if need be
It can salvage RAT wrecks and collect the loot from them as well.
I have considered replacing the EOS with the Ocra but the problem is the links will shut off and going from 22km (for a normal T1 strip all V with appropriate skills) to 14 can be a real pain if you are mining @ any distance.
Well obviously if you were using the Orca in a 2 hulk + 1 orca setup you would only be using the yield link. It wouldn't be going off very often as it would only need to haul every what 4 jet cans worth ? Is that about 40 minutes ? Not sure.
With 4 it gets trickier, but you would still mine more with 2 orca's and 2 hulks (due to the 15% bonus) than you will likely get from the EOS. The Orca as it stands will easily tank a 0.0 spawn (could be changed). Defense well, you could just as easily do as some people I know and sit a carrier there instead, cap shield transfers certainly stop the odd taranis from popping hulks. Granted these are all more expensive solutions. Since the highest bonus is being used, nothing stops you from having an EOS giving bonuses, and an Orca hauling, giving the better cycle time bonus when it can.
Aside from the fact that you're going to be looking at 450-500m for one for the mid-long term (and much more initially) there's a lot of advantages to using an Orca for even a small op. (skill requirements aside) For larger ops, you can see more than one being used. Potentially you can spread out with one in each belt ;)
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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Thevlyn
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Posted - 2008.10.30 15:06:00 -
[14]
Lord Fitz
I will assume you were just not crunching the numbers, as i know you know your stuff. But 2 hulks with decent skills (not max) will fill 4 cans in ~22min. not 40min. i did test the hold out on sisi, and in an orca with max skills and rigs, you can hold 105,340.5 m^3 in the hold, and an extra 30-40k depending on what CCP decides, in the corp hold. That means your looking at 4.92-5.29 (corp hold dependent) cans or 27.5min to fill with 2 hulks.
(assuming 11min to fill a can for the above numbers. Currently takes me 14min while afk mining with decent leader in a BC)
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Lord SPAM
Caldari
Ripple Rock Mining Co.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 17:15:00 -
[15]
Mining Op.
Orca
High:
Laser cycle time gang mod
Shield harmonization/shield boost gang link
Mids:
Shield tanky
Lows: shield tanky stuffs
Drones: 10 small shield repping drones
Fleet:
1 Osprey: with miner IIs and shield rep
10 Bantams pilots with low to mixed skills
Fills up Orca's belly faster than 2 hulks....
Its all fun and games till someone loses a Jedi... |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.31 02:14:00 -
[16]
I wasn't crunching numbers, actually last time I did hulks were 500m, and bonuses weren't so good. (20mins/can was a reliable figure at that stage).
Still, things aren't getting any harder with all these options out there, it's just harder to work out which one is the best ;)
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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Howard Atkins
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Posted - 2008.10.31 13:35:00 -
[17]
Arrr. Me Hulk pilot, boosted by a vulture (Vulture pilot has the necessary skills on IV, and the Mining Mindlink in his head), crunches about 1 can / 10.5 Minutes.
This is not maximum: Both Booster and Hulk Pilot could still skill some stuff IV => V and get even more. Also, no Highwall implant or any other mining implant than the boosters Mining Mindlink was used.
Just a rough number - its a bit under 6 cans / hour.
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KAELA MENSHA
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Posted - 2008.10.31 17:26:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Korizan
WHen we left 0.0 we kept the same mining op setup
1 EOS links and implant
1 Hauler
2 Hulks
4 people two mining and 2 helping,
now eos man gets into orca, bonus is better while in system.
plus hauler gets into hulk. thats a 50% bonus on its own.
There are just too many advantages to having a dedicated buff ship.
The links are always on.
Defense or perma tank if need be
It can salvage RAT wrecks and collect the loot from them as well.
I have considered replacing the EOS with the Ocra but the problem is the links will shut off and going from 22km (for a normal T1 strip all V with appropriate skills) to 14 can be a real pain if you are mining @ any distance.
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