EVE Search - Balance for battleships

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Test Server Feedback

Balance for battleships

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.10.29 10:54:00 - [1] Edited by: Jason Edwards on 29/10/2008 10:56:02 Megathron vs Raven vs Apoc vs Tempest All are fit with the largest short range weaponry and 3 dmg mods @ max skills. Megathron 7x Neutron Blaster t2s 3x Mag field stabs t2s. 813dps 4.5km optimal 13km falloff Cap used. Raven 6x Siege Missile t2 3x bcu t2 825dps 30km optimal No cap used Apoc 8x Mega pulse t2 3x Heatsink t2 637dps 21km optimal 10km falloff cap used. Tempest 6x 800mm ac t2 3x gyro t2 656dps 3km optimal 20km falloff no cap used Now lets say the target is 30km away. How much dps are you doing? Raven is still dealing 825dps Megathron is dealing basically no dps. Tempest is dealing 164dps Apoc is dealing 318dps Now lets say the target is 20km away. How much? Raven is still dealing 825dps Megathron is dealing 328dps Tempest is dealing 328dps Apoc is dealing 637dps 10km away? Raven is still dealing 825dps Megathron is dealing 609dps Tempest is dealing 524dps Apoc is still dealing 637dps That's some serious missing dps. Especially given the fact that the moment you add speed to the equation... especially so considering the new formula on missiles... Raven continues to shine very bright. Add on top of that... the skill requirements for the torp raven vs ANY of the other fits is SIGNIFICANTLY easier. It's also glaringly obviously minmatar are very far behind the curve. On top of that... Apoc generally does well along the line. Proposal: +1 turret for Tempest + accordingly boost to cpu and pg. Add approximately 10km on to the base optimal range; for autocannons and blasters. Not a blanket 10km but you know; neutron vs ion... Readjust tracking appropriately. Siege Launcher tech 2 Torps 5 Hams 5 Rockets 5 DO IT! ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?"
Kalintos Tyl Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.29 10:58:00 - [2] "tempest can change ammo" " tempest have capless turets" generic whine reply? :D ow forgot devs reply " tempest is fine" http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg guide ninja edited already
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2008.10.29 11:03:00 - [3] This thread puts a tempest up vs a geddon while taking omnitanks into account. Tempest wins. Same EFT, different conclusions... Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Strill	Posted - 2008.10.29 11:04:00 - [4] Edited by: Strill on 29/10/2008 11:05:17 Originally by: Washell Olivaw This thread puts a tempest up vs a geddon while taking omnitanks into account. Tempest wins. Same EFT, different conclusions... Quit using your own lack of understanding to misinterpret my data. I was working under a different assumption than him.
Kynes Harkonnen HAZCON Inc YTMND.	Posted - 2008.10.29 11:05:00 - [5] To be quite honest I like your Torp skills suggestion. To bring in like with guns, Torp spec needing HAM spec4, which needs rocket spec 4. That or reduce SP needed for T2 guns.... Say a blasterthron is orbiting a torp raven real close, shooting eachother, which one gets more damage reduction %? How close/fast can a mega orbit a BS and still hit? Whats the explosion vel of a t2 skilled torp raven's torps? Another think to considder is tanking... LSEs on a raven vs 1600 plated mega? midslot tank vs lowslot tank?
kublai Art of War	Posted - 2008.10.29 11:07:00 - [6] I notice you forget to calculate dps at -under- 10km, which is not an uncommon range to fight at in small scale pvp. A-War Recruiting
Kalintos Tyl Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.29 11:14:00 - [7] 5km should be added ;] http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg guide ninja edited already
Raguun LDK Kraftwerk.	Posted - 2008.10.29 11:25:00 - [8] Originally by: Jason Edwards Now lets say the target is 30km away. How much dps are you doing? Raven is still dealing 825dps Megathron is dealing basically no dps. Tempest is dealing 164dps Apoc is dealing 318dps Now lets say the target is 20km away. How much? Raven is still dealing 825dps Megathron is dealing 328dps Tempest is dealing 328dps Apoc is dealing 637dps 10km away? Raven is still dealing 825dps Megathron is dealing 609dps Tempest is dealing 524dps Apoc is still dealing 637dps FIX 30km Raven dealing 0 dps, couse you of course have MWD and you are faster then him, so until torps reach you they have to go at least 40km, so goodbye torps. I basicly see what Mega and raven are close rangers. And their dps ir quite equal so fair. Add to Mega Ogres T2 and you have bigger dps \o/ Minies doesnt need CAP so they should neut Amarrs and gallentes dry and couse they are faster they should not let Amarrs expose their advantage in range. So also depends on individuals skills. Not mentioning Minies can change dmg types and Amarrs cant (remember +10% to em resist?). Close range Apoc will track a ***, so tempest should* tackle him :) Mega should (double)web its target or die. Apoc should keep da range or die. Raven is worst case. He must sacrifiece tank to put tackle gear, so he will die in most cases :D EFT is not everything You must see the situation. If you dont have fantasy go to forum and whine
Tnam Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.10.29 11:26:00 - [9] 1. you aren't considering drones in the equation. Mega can do lots of drone damage at all ranges in particular. 2. you aren't considering anything other than cookie fits. For instance a Tempest fitted with 4 800MM AC + 4 Siege and 6 damage mods is doing 977dps at short range and doing a lot of damage at 20k. you also arent' considering fitting a siege launcher on the mega or fitting 2 blasters on the raven. PS, I fly minmatar, and I think large auto-cannons need some love too but if you are going to make a point you should at least do it accurately. There is clearly something wrong when 4 siege is doing more damage than 4 racial guns on a ship that is double bonus'd for auto-cannon damage. PPS. I never fit a tempest like this because I would always use a phoon for this kind of pure gankage but that doesn't make the pest fit with 4 siege a stupid plan, 5 meds can definately be FTW considering the amount of webbage/paintage that is now needed.
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.10.29 11:36:00 - [10] Quote: Say a blasterthron is orbiting a torp raven real close, shooting eachother, which one gets more damage reduction %? How close/fast can a mega orbit a BS and still hit? Whats the explosion vel of a t2 skilled torp raven's torps? Never took t2 ammo into account. The new formula though is interesting. I was in ffa1 with my stealth bomber firing cruise at a megathron who was going getting close to 600m/s My skills arent even close to t2 but I hit for full damage. Despite explosion velocity being 69m/s + skills. Which as I say arent very happy go lucky. So a torp raven... torps have higher explosion velocity then cruise... firing at the megathron orbiting at 4km lets say. Should be literally negligible dps difference. Quote: Another think to considder is tanking... LSEs on a raven vs 1600 plated mega? midslot tank vs lowslot tank? The mega obviously being at disadvantage? Originally by: kublai I notice you forget to calculate dps at -under- 10km, which is not an uncommon range to fight at in small scale pvp. Under 10km for example at 5km... is basically just really their full dps. So I did 5km when I said what their dps is. Now you then can take tracking into account; but my point is mainly that if we take pulses as a base line. As it performs fairly well at all ranges. So less tracking would be expected. This leaves you with blasters being better then autocannons. While blasters are harder to fit relative to cpu and pg... and take cap costs. Which autocannons dont. so tracking in my opinion is pretty well balanced relative to the 3 types of turrets... Torps being epically overpowered on all factors. -Easier to fit than everything. -Deals far more dps and far more ranges -takes no cap while doing that. -super easy skill training. That's with just 6 launchers. Imagine 7-8(4x2golem) Lets say megathron chases torpraven through a gate. You decloak literally opposite sides... 25-30km. Torp raven is going to deal so much more dps then megathron in first 20 seconds... megathron cant compete. ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?"

Aya Vandenovich	Posted - 2008.10.29 11:46:00 - [11] Edited by: Aya Vandenovich on 29/10/2008 11:47:16 Originally by: Jason Edwards Quote: Say a blasterthron is orbiting a torp raven real close, shooting eachother, which one gets more damage reduction %? How close/fast can a mega orbit a BS and still hit? Whats the explosion vel of a t2 skilled torp raven's torps? Never took t2 ammo into account. The new formula though is interesting. I was in ffa1 with my stealth bomber firing cruise at a megathron who was going getting close to 600m/s My skills arent even close to t2 but I hit for full damage. Despite explosion velocity being 69m/s + skills. Which as I say arent very happy go lucky. So a torp raven... torps have higher explosion velocity then cruise... firing at the megathron orbiting at 4km lets say. Should be literally negligible dps difference. You were hitting for full damage due to sig radius. A Mega going that fast is using an MWD so his sig will be absolutely massive, and with the SBs explosion radius bonus hitting for full damage is no problem. Speed/exp velocity doesn't even come into it unless their sig is smaller than your explosion radius. Edit: Cruise shouldn't have much of an issue with BSs anyway since the basic exp radius is smaller than all BS sigs.
SirDanceAlot	Posted - 2008.10.29 11:46:00 - [12] dps isnt verything, you can't purely balance ships on that and anyone with any pvp experience knows this. To balance ships according to dps only would overpower gallente and minmatar BS because they have hidden attributes like good amounts of mids for tackling and agility+speed+capless weapons. Yeah you can't ignore that. But good luck with that. Good thing ccp doesn't listen to noobs that want to overpower their ships because they can't fly them well enough.
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.10.29 11:46:00 - [13] Quote: FIX 30km Raven dealing 0 dps, couse you of course have MWD and you are faster then him, so until torps reach you they have to go at least 40km, so goodbye torps. So you mwd away from the raven? Away from potentially being able to deal damage to the raven? That's pretty um not smart. Never happen. At most the megathron warps off; not put its tail between its engines and fly away. Quote: I basicly see what Mega and raven are close rangers. Um no to raven being close ranger. Quote: And their dps ir quite equal so fair. If the megathron is 5km from raven. Yes I do believe the data shows this. Quote: Add to Mega Ogres T2 and you have bigger dps \o/ Add to raven 1 smartbomb, add to raven 5 hammerhead 2s. add to mega 1 smartbomb. Remove all drones from play. Quote: Minies doesnt need CAP so they should neut Amarrs and gallentes dry and couse they are faster they should not let Amarrs expose their advantage in range. Nobody is really discussing min vs amarr vs gallente. I'm entirely vs torp raven here. Sorry to say. Quote: So also depends on individuals skills. Not mentioning Minies can change dmg types and Amarrs cant (remember +10% to em resist?). When they change dmg types they also lose dps technically. How these dmg types react to omnitanks which is what pvp pretty much uses... Is funny because often with my omni tanks... the strongest factor is often the weakest. Armor tanks use 3 hardeners and not em. Leaving em weaker then the rest. Quote: Close range Apoc will track a **, so tempest should tackle him :) close range and web+ pulses hit just fine. Quote: Raven is worst case. He must sacrifiece tank to put tackle gear, so he will die in most cases :D and the armor tanks sacrifice tank for dmg mods. What's ur point? Quote: 1. you aren't considering drones in the equation. Mega can do lots of drone damage at all ranges in particular. 2. you aren't considering anything other than cookie fits. For instance a Tempest fitted with 4 800MM AC + 4 Siege and 6 damage mods is doing 977dps at short range and doing a lot of damage at 20k. you also arent' considering fitting a siege launcher on the mega or fitting 2 blasters on the raven. I am not necessarily talking about the ships themselves. I am talking about blasters, autoc, pulses vs torps. Quote:** PS, I fly minmatar, and I think large auto-cannons need some love too but if you are going to make a point you should at least do it accurately. There is clearly something wrong when 4 siege is doing more damage than 4 racial guns on a ship that is double bonus'd for auto-cannon damage. PPS. I never fit a tempest like this because I would always use a phoon for this kind of pure gankage but that doesn't make the pest fit with 4 siege a stupid plan, 5 meds can definately be FTW considering the amount of webbage/paintage that is now needed. Case closed for you? ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?"
Tnam Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.10.29 11:47:00 - [14] Originally by: Jason Edwards Quote: So a torp raven... torps have higher explosion velocity then cruise... firing at the megathron orbiting at 4km lets say. Should be literally negligible dps difference. You are somewhat ignoring that torps have a larger sig than a BS so the raven must give a mid to a painter to do max damage. In your scenario, if I was in the mega, I would just probably warp off, unless I thought the raven had given all its mids away and had no tank, whereby I would use my 120k ehp charge it down, unleash 5 ogre II's and kick its ass while taking ~50% armor damage.
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.10.29 11:55:00 - [15] Quote: You were hitting for full damage due to sig radius. Considering SB bonus and vaguely known formula. I'm having a feeling sig radius isnt a factor necessarily as to why. Quote: A Mega going that fast is using an MWD so his sig will be absolutely massive, and with the SBs explosion radius bonus hitting for full damage is no problem. Speed/exp velocity doesn't even come into it unless their sig is smaller than your explosion radius. This is very untrue for TQ. And there's absolutely no way you would know this to be true for sisi as the formula hasnt and will never be released. Quote: dps isnt verything, you can't purely balance ships on that and anyone with any pvp experience knows this. To balance ships according to dps only would overpower gallente and minmatar BS because they have hidden attributes like good amounts of mids for tackling and agility+speed+capless weapons. Wouldnt overpower minmatar that's for sure. I havent even suggested changing dps. I am suggesting an optimal boost. To allow blasters to even be used. Considering webbers are now much weaker and controling the speed is much harder. Blasters are unable to control that 5km range. Furthermore... Gallente and Caldari are dps dealers and weak tank. Amarr and Min are weaker dps and strong tank. That's how it is. Which is how it is now. I'm just pointing out how optimal vs falloff actually hurts that balance significantly. Quote: Yeah you can't ignore that. But good luck with that. Good thing ccp doesn't listen to noobs that want to overpower their ships because they can't fly them well enough. Funny thing is that I cant even fly ANY amarr ships, I cant fly any min battleships, I fly caldari and gallente. I have never used blasters nor torps on tq. So saying that I want this boost has absolutely nothing to do with me or my ships. Meaning I am relatively objective about this. ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?"
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.10.29 11:58:00 - [16] Originally by: Tnam Originally by: Jason Edwards Quote: So a torp raven... torps have higher explosion velocity then cruise... firing at the megathron orbiting at 4km lets say. Should be literally negligible dps difference. You are somewhat ignoring that torps have a larger sig than a BS so the raven must give a mid to a painter to do max damage. In your scenario, if I was in the mega, I would just probably warp off, unless I thought the raven had given all its mids away and had no tank, whereby I would use my 120k ehp charge it down, unleash 5 ogre II's and kick its ass while taking ~50% armor damage. You charge it with what? mwd? Even then... 450m torps vs 400m bs? Isnt much of a difference; even if you dont have any sig radius modification. The omnitank itself is far more likely to cause trouble then sig radius. ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?"
Tnam Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.10.29 12:07:00 - [17] Edited by: Tnam on 29/10/2008 12:07:08 Originally by: Jason Edwards Originally by: Tnam Originally by: Jason Edwards In your scenario, if I was in the mega, I would just probably warp off, unless I thought the raven had given all its mids away and had no tank, whereby I would use my 120k ehp charge it down, unleash 5 ogre II's and kick its ass while taking ~50% armor damage. You charge it with what? mwd? Even then... 450m torps vs 400m bs? Isnt much of a difference; even if you dont have any sig radius modification. The omnitank itself is far more likely to cause trouble then sig radius. Its 15% damage, I'm not trying to pick a fight here, the point is that the Mega has got 2 options in this scenario that could potentially yield survival. And yes.. despite the uberness of torps, regardless of radius, the mega still has a very real change to own a raven in this kind of scenario. If the raven is really out to gank, it has only got enough tank to survive a mega at close range for maybe 20-30 seconds, whereas the mega can survive the raven for about 100 secs. If the raven is tanked then there is nothing it can do to stop the mega running, it cannot get in range to keep it scrammed. I don't want siege nerfed too hard because the range is honestly a problem in anything but a raven and I love my phoon.
Crellion Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.10.29 12:11:00 - [18] The OP has more mistakes in his calculations than there are CHerries in a Cherry Garcia tbh. Why do you half the Poc dps at 30kms noob just change crystals. Why not put scorch on it and tell us it does 500+ DPS at 50kms and the Raven does 0? I am not in any way suggesting Poc is an ubership or antyhing (and for close DPS purposes use Geddon or Abbadon anyway) but your stating point math is just plain old ridiulous... Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Aya Vandenovich	Posted - 2008.10.29 12:15:00 - [19] Originally by: Jason Edwards Quote: A Mega going that fast is using an MWD so his sig will be absolutely massive, and with the SBs explosion radius bonus hitting for full damage is no problem. Speed/exp velocity doesn't even come into it unless their sig is smaller than your explosion radius. This is very untrue for TQ. And there's absolutely no way you would know this to be true for sisi as the formula hasnt and will never be released. Of course I'm not talking about TQ, you were talking about hitting a Mega in FFA1, so obviously we are discussing Singularity. And you're right, there's absolutely no way I would know if this is true, except maybe if I tested it on the test server. Trust me, give it a try.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2008.10.29 12:46:00 - [20] Originally by: Raguun Originally by: Jason Edwards Now lets say the target is 30km away. How much dps are you doing? Raven is still dealing 825dps Megathron is dealing basically no dps. Tempest is dealing 164dps Apoc is dealing 318dps Now lets say the target is 20km away. How much? Raven is still dealing 825dps Megathron is dealing 328dps Tempest is dealing 328dps Apoc is dealing 637dps 10km away? Raven is still dealing 825dps Megathron is dealing 609dps Tempest is dealing 524dps Apoc is still dealing 637dps FIX 30km Raven dealing 0 dps, couse you of course have MWD and you are faster then him, so until torps reach you they have to go at least 40km, so goodbye torps. I basicly see what Mega and raven are close rangers. And their dps ir quite equal so fair. Add to Mega Ogres T2 and you have bigger dps \o/ Minies doesnt need CAP so they should neut Amarrs and gallentes dry and couse they are faster they should not let Amarrs expose their advantage in range. So also depends on individuals skills. Not mentioning Minies can change dmg types and Amarrs cant (remember +10% to em resist?). Close range Apoc will track a ***, so tempest should* tackle him :) Mega should (double)web its target or die. Apoc should keep da range or die. Raven is worst case. He must sacrifiece tank to put tackle gear, so he will die in most cases :D EFT is not everything You must see the situation. If you dont have fantasy go to forum and whine Why does the Raven need tackling gear? - it doesn't, it's a medium range gang ship that can start dealing damage from the word go (just like Pulse boats). Blaster and to a extent AC boats are screwed in that they have to MWD over to the primary target, hence why they are by design, more of a 'solo' than 'fleet' boat. -------------- Video - 'War-Machine'

Uzume Ame	Posted - 2008.10.29 12:59:00 - [21] Everyone in this forum is making asumtions on stupid and useless 1vs1 situations. What about trying some 'real world' fits and situations and stop thinking in solopwnmobiles BS terms which were NEVER intended by CCP (their words). Like i.e. Raven having hard time to dictate range & takle alone without losing all his time and dieing in 30 sec. If you go with your solopawnmobile scenarios at least take things into consideration. Teh failure of a signature.
MyOwnSling Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.29 14:07:00 - [22] Edited by: MyOwnSling on 29/10/2008 14:08:55 FYI testing on SISI has led to the conclusion that sig radius is a VERY important factor now for missile hits. Also, someone has cracked the formula and confirmed what people have seen in tessting. EDIT Added link and it appears devs are changing some of the constants, but the foundation of the formuls seem to still stand. ------------- Stop whining. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2008.10.29 15:43:00 - [23] Originally by: Strill First off, quit using your ignorance to misinterpret my data. I was working under a different assumption than him. It is not the "Same EFT", it's a completely different EFT. Heck, I didn't even use EFT! I used my own spreadsheets. On top of that you're flat-out lying. The tempest didn't win! At best it came out about even. It did slightly more dps than the geddon against armor-tanked ships and lost vs shield-tanked ships, but only if both the geddon and the tempest were at their optimal ranges, and only if the target wasn't using a T2 ship, and wasn't using any one-damage-type hardeners. 70% of PvP ships are armor tankers (QEN report). Tempest did the most dps vs the #1 and #2 PvP race (QEN Report) and the most damage vs armor tankers. Not winning? On DPS and statistics it sure is. In actual EVE, no. Misinterpreting? Yup, by plan. Ignorant, nah. Baiting? Definately. There's more to a row of DPS figures to claim ships are balanced or unbalanced. Like you say yourself, only if, only if. P.S.: I let you in on a secret, EFT is a spreadsheet with a nice shell around it. Use it next time, it'll save you a lot of typing. Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
CrestoftheStars Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2008.10.29 15:52:00 - [24] different ships have different tactics and use. therefore this thread have already failed. ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises	Posted - 2008.10.29 16:07:00 - [25] To be fair tempest will defeat a raven on 1v1 MOST of times. You forget about tempest NOS that will deplete raven tank (that help a lot) and the fact that tempest smaller signature radius means raven will be loosing easily 30% of its dps. At least the 3 fights I made with tempest vs raven in SISI this week, I won all 3. 1v1 tempest is still great. Tempest suck in larger groups where its lower buffer tank means it dies faster, or means he won't be using damage mods there fore will have sucky damage.. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises	Posted - 2008.10.29 16:11:00 - [26] Originally by: Tnam 1. you aren't considering drones in the equation. Mega can do lots of drone damage at all ranges in particular. 2. you aren't considering anything other than cookie fits. For instance a Tempest fitted with 4 800MM AC + 4 Siege and 6 damage mods is doing 977dps at short range and doing a lot of damage at 20k. you also arent' considering fitting a siege launcher on the mega or fitting 2 blasters on the raven. PS, I fly minmatar, and I think large auto-cannons need some love too but if you are going to make a point you should at least do it accurately. There is clearly something wrong when 4 siege is doing more damage than 4 racial guns on a ship that is double bonus'd for auto-cannon damage. PPS. I never fit a tempest like this because I would always use a phoon for this kind of pure gankage but that doesn't make the pest fit with 4 siege a stupid plan, 5 meds can definately be FTW considering the amount of webbage/paintage that is now needed. WHAT? Why woudl anyoen use such horrible tempest fit? if with 6 800mm and 2 siege and 3 damage mods it can deal 1240 dps? ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Shira Rayborn	Posted - 2008.10.29 16:30:00 - [27] Originally by: Kagura Nikon WHAT? Why woudl anyoen use such horrible tempest fit? if with 6 800mm and 2 siege and 3 damage mods it can deal 1240 dps? Because people play dumb and fit ships like morons to prove a point that doesn't exist. It is called propaganda.
Nikolae Varius Amarr Exiled. Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.10.29 16:52:00 - [28] Quote: Quote: 1. you aren't considering drones in the equation. Mega can do lots of drone damage at all ranges in particular. 2. you aren't considering anything other than cookie fits. For instance a Tempest fitted with 4 800MM AC + 4 Siege and 6 damage mods is doing 977dps at short range and doing a lot of damage at 20k. you also arent' considering fitting a siege launcher on the mega or fitting 2 blasters on the raven. I am not necessarily talking about the ships themselves. I am talking about blasters, autoc, pulses vs torps. this is the bullsh~t thats been plaguing the eve-o forums. You want to complain about the tempest? Then take everything into account why don't you. Unless you're just whining about ACs. I'm not a supporter that the tempest is doing "OK" but if the eve dev team balanced stuff with this kind of ignorance, god knows how eve would be, oh wait, lets do something like that right now! Mega 125m3 Temp 75m3 Apoc 75m3 Raven 75m3 According to this data and your way of thinking, the mega seems to be extremely overpowered compared to the other 3 BS. I demand that the Temp, Apoc and Raven all get the same drone treatment! Look m8. If you are going to whine about a ship, you need to include all the data. That is not to say that the tempest is fine or overpowered (as fine seems to be subjective but overpowered it is by far not) but don't just go around comparing just guns. It seems that people make a great habit of leaving out other variables such as sensor strength, drone bay (very important. I mean, unless you refuse to use drones in pvp in which case i have no idea why you're even posting on pvp aspects) and heck even lockon range. Also to point out something added from above, it does seem that you conveniently seemed to have not included DPS values when under 10km. I wonder why. Not that I'm implying anything though I probably am. ==================================== Looking for a 0.0 PvP corp? Check me out.
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.29 16:54:00 - [29] Originally by: Nikolae Varius this is the bullsh~t thats been plaguing the eve-o forums. You want to complain about the tempest? Then take everything into account why don't you. Unless you're just whining about ACs. I'm not a supporter that the tempest is doing "OK" but if the eve dev team balanced stuff with this kind of ignorance, god knows how eve would be, oh wait, lets do something like that right now! Mega 125m3 Temp 75m3 Apoc 75m3 Raven 75m3 According to this data and your way of thinking, the mega seems to be extremely overpowered compared to the other 3 BS. I demand that the Temp, Apoc and Raven all get the same drone treatment! Look m8. If you are going to whine about a ship, you need to include all the data. That is not to say that the tempest is fine or overpowered (as fine seems to be subjective but overpowered it is by far not) but don't just go around comparing just guns. It seems that people make a great habit of leaving out other variables such as sensor strength, drone bay (very important. I mean, unless you refuse to use drones in pvp in which case i have no idea why you're even posting on pvp aspects) and heck even lockon range. Also to point out something added from above, it does seem that you conveniently seemed to have not included DPS values when under 10km. I wonder why. Not that I'm implying anything though I probably am. What!? You need to look at the big picture?! MADNESS! On a serious note, yeah this is why everyone thinks everything is so broken eventhough it's not. People are just looking at isolated data and never at the whole ship.
Veldya Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.10.29 17:02:00 - [30] Close EFT and just step away. Just looking at EFT numbers will just make you post dumb ** like this. In Sisi Signature Radius and movement is a key factor in missile damage reduction. Base damage for a Torp with max skills is 618 damage. Caldari ships are the slowest and have the biggest signature radius so will take more damage from turrets and missiles. Mega has velocity of 105 and signature radius of 400, Raven velocity of 94 and sig radius of 460, Apoc has velocity 94 and sig radius of 400 and Tempest velocity of 120 and sig radius of 340. This means a 618 damage Torp will hit a Raven for 569 before resists, 325 if using an AB, 448 when using a MWD. Same torp will hit a Mega for 434, 247 when using AB and 341 when using a MWD. Same torp will hit an Apoc for 489, 280 when using AB and 385 when using a MWD. Same torp will hit a Tempest for 272, 155 when using AB and 214 when using a MWD. Those are before resists. If you have 70% resists then That is a 92.5% damage reduction for a Tempest running an AB. Add to that missiles have a travel time, can be destroyed by area effect weapons, can be shot down with defenders, etc there are significant down factors. And to the T2 requirements. Missile support skills are a higher rank in general than turret support skills, you need a bigger SP investment getting T2 Torp and maxed support skills than it would take to get T2 turret and max support skills. They can't increase the launcer requirement without lowering the rank of the support skills. Any change would make it easier on the missile pilot, not harder. Who cares if a noob gets T2 launcher with skills, they are going to hit for sweet ** all with maxed out skills against a battleship that is moving. So Raven needs AB for defense, needs target painters, needs webs, needs point... lucky it is an armor tanking ship... oh wait.



Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.