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What would it take to get carebears out to low and nulsec?

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Blastil	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:07:00 - [1] Edited by: Blastil on 31/10/2008 15:07:22 CCP has been emphasizing getting carebears and industrialists out into lowsec and nullsec in a non-PVP role. At every turn this has fallen through, since it seems carebears are all dead set against risk in any shape or form. This is understandable I suppose. Most people want to log on Friday and Saturday to run a few missions, change production jobs, and chat with a few friends. But without Miners/maufacturers in Nullsec and lowsec, as well as mission runners, Low/Nullsec will forever be gimpped, since PVPers are mostly consumers only. CCP has tried and met with only limited success to get these players into more risky space, so I'll ask this question, aimed mostly at carebears and industrialists. What would get YOU into Low and Nullsec?
CALUGARU Repo Industries Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:08:00 - [2] i bet if they put 10 mil bounty rats in every belt..problem solved tbfh ______________ The new Orca: Originally by: CCP Navigator ooopss
Estel Arador Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:10:00 - [3] Not enough people buying stuff in low sec to make producing anything there profitable (with possibly a few exceptions).
CALUGARU Repo Industries Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:11:00 - [4] move jita in the middle of 0.0 then, along with all mission hubs? and make it a 5 min queue to jump in the sistem, while you have to stay in the 0.0 at the gate? ______________ The new Orca: Originally by: CCP Navigator ooopss
Blastil	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:11:00 - [5] Originally by: Estel Arador Not enough people buying stuff in low sec to make producing anything there profitable (with possibly a few exceptions). This is about what it would TAKE- not what's keeping you out =P
Cassandra Valieries	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:12:00 - [6] No more gatecamps. Simple as that. I have no problem being scanned down in a mission or while mining and getting popped and podded. Makes it more interesting But getting instapopped at the gate...meh... Since gatecamps are going stay in the EVE, I'm gonna stay in highsec
Estel Arador Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:13:00 - [7] Originally by: Blastil Originally by: Estel Arador Not enough people buying stuff in low sec to make producing anything there profitable (with possibly a few exceptions). This is about what it would TAKE- not what's keeping you out =P It would TAKE people buying my stuff
CALUGARU Repo Industries Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:14:00 - [8] i can still kill you there, you know ______________ The new Orca: Originally by: CCP Navigator ooopss
SuckySycky5dolla	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:15:00 - [9] bring back NPC buy orders for Nexus chips. Annancale (0.3 system) will again become a thriving missin-running hub
Blastil	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:16:00 - [10] Originally by: Cassandra Valieries No more gatecamps. Simple as that. Would it help to have ships that can get past gate camps, like the new blockade runners will be able to?

Commander Criton Gallente Surrender The Booty Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:17:00 - [11] Simple spread the npc agents out lvl 1 agents in high sec lvl 2 closer to low sec with the odd mission in low sec lvl 3s based in low sec lvl 4/5s closer to 0.0 and in 0.0, increase the rat bountys and respawn rates.
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:17:00 - [12] Simple really, increased safety or reward are the only things that will cause people to change their behaviour. These are examples only (not suggestions) Imagine lowsec gates were completely safe, only the belts (and maybe stations) were dangerous. But the belts offered 2-3x the reward over highsec. Markets in lowsec would spring up and people would flood in. As it stands the gates aren't quite as dangerous as 0.0, but the reward is no better than highsec, so no one can be assed. --- IMO the one actual suggestion that I will make is that the reward in lowsec should be at least 2x the reward in highsec at all times, regardless of mineral prices etc. For that, I can see people taking the risk, providing more targets, and still coming out ahead after you kill them ;) Less than 2x the reward, is there any reason anyone is going to bother ? Really ? Unless you're looking for a fight, and then it's hard to find something to kill :\ Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
Kuar Z'thain Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:19:00 - [13] In-short: Nothing. Some people want zero-risk in their Internet Spaceship PvP Game.
Cassandra Valieries	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:19:00 - [14] Edited by: Cassandra Valieries on 31/10/2008 15:23:28 Edited by: Cassandra Valieries on 31/10/2008 15:21:24 Originally by: CALUGARU i can still kill you there, you know Which is perfectly cool, it's not the getting killed part which sucks It's the "if I go through this gate, and there is a gatecamp on the other side I'm dead no matter what I do" part that sucks Blasti: That will help alot, and shortly after I get one of those I will be back in lowsec (I've been there before, that's how I learned to hate gatecamps) Lord Fitz: Make the gates safe and I'd go to lowsec even if the rewards were the same as highsec
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:19:00 - [15] Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 31/10/2008 15:21:19 Factional Warfare got me to lowsec for over 3 months. In a <100k ship and empty clone, but still. Okay I used a ~5 mil catalyst and a faction fitted and rigged interceptor on some occasions, but the inty only when in an experienced gang so I wouldn't have that much risk of losing it. That and Siigari paid for one of the modules. :) So, perhaps things that can be accomplished in lowsec and 0.0 without implants and in relatively cheap ships. Then the 'bears won't have a risk of actually losing anything that matters to them. --- NEW MOVIE! CSM Campaign Thread
Tykkis	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:19:00 - [16] I'm just occasional carebear but lowsec and 00 needs to be safer for solo. They are safe for corps and alliances if they want to make it safe. Ye safe losec and 00 isn't the answer you're looking. some random things: missions should be done optimally with pvp fit you should be able to disengage the rats if enemy hops in mission should not tie you in one spot for an hour if you fail mission because of pirate, you should not be punished for it you should have more control over where the mission leads you to
Faife Noctiscion	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:21:00 - [17] i heard about this consensual pvp thing. it totally sounds like a great way to get carebears into low sec. -- Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
MrYiff Gallente The Industrial Consortium	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:21:00 - [18] Give me incentives to go there, but dont force me to go there. Moving mission hubs into lowsec/0.0 will only mean the mission hubs move to the next best place in highsec. The other thing is to accept that some people will always stay in hisec regardless, thats their choice and it should be respected. If its planned to move lots of PVE missions into lowsec then some thought should be given to making it easier to PVE in a PVP fitted ship (or vice versa), hopefully if that happened those pirates that do find missioners in lowsec would have more of a challenge and the mission runner would stand a chance of fighting back, which in my mind provides a better game for both types of player. Of course, im just a highsec, carebear mission running miner
punnani	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:23:00 - [19] leave my low sec alone, i like to be one of the few people there making a killin...dodixie deze nuts!
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:23:00 - [20] Originally by: Kuar Z'thain In-short: Nothing. Some people want zero-risk in their Internet Spaceship PvP Game. Let me help put my point of view across by changing your emphasis. Some people want zero-risk in their Internet Spaceship PvP Game. -------------------- What? Me Worry? --------------------

Blastil	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:25:00 - [21] Originally by: Tykkis I'm just occasional carebear but lowsec and 00 needs to be safer for solo. They are safe for corps and alliances if they want to make it safe. Ye safe losec and 00 isn't the answer you're looking. some random things: missions should be done optimally with pvp fit you should be able to disengage the rats if enemy hops in mission should not tie you in one spot for an hour if you fail mission because of pirate, you should not be punished for it you should have more control over where the mission leads you to well- it IS an MMOrpg, emphasizing teamwork and comradery over individual twtich skill and so I don't think rewarding solo PVP is a route we want to go as a game. oddly enough, some of your complaints about missions already have been fixed. I PVE in a PVP fit myrm or brutix. it is possible, if not reasonable to PVE in a PVP fit. While missions tie you down to one spot, they are nearly impossible to be scanned out of in any reasonable ammount of time. unless thy get lucky.
Kuar Z'thain Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:27:00 - [22] Originally by: Bistot Kid Originally by: Kuar Z'thain In-short: Nothing. Some people want zero-risk in their Internet Spaceship PvP Game. Let me help put my point of view across by changing your emphasis. Some people want zero-risk in their Internet Spaceship PvP Game. That's great man, keep mining all those roids to make ships for us to pew pew.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:28:00 - [23] Originally by: Blastil Edited by: Blastil on 31/10/2008 15:07:22 CCP has been emphasizing getting carebears and industrialists out into lowsec and nullsec in a non-PVP role. At every turn this has fallen through, since it seems carebears are all dead set against risk in any shape or form. This is understandable I suppose. Most people want to log on Friday and Saturday to run a few missions, change production jobs, and chat with a few friends. But without Miners/maufacturers in Nullsec and lowsec, as well as mission runners, Low/Nullsec will forever be gimpped, since PVPers are mostly consumers only. CCP has tried and met with only limited success to get these players into more risky space, so I'll ask this question, aimed mostly at carebears and industrialists. What would get YOU into Low and Nullsec? I already spend the vast majority of my own time in 0.0 now, however, that's primarily as a combat pilot on two accounts. I do some mining in 0.0, but I have a personal advantage in the ability to move my more vulnerable mining ships past the majority of the threats in 0.0 via carrier. For the bulk of your industrial pilots, a non-stealth and sub-supercapital class ship capable of creating a jump bridge that mining barges, exhumers, haulers and transports can use. The worst part of any operation is the damned jumpgate. Create a viable, if prohibitively expensive, means of portably bypassing jumpgates for the industrial/mining vessels, then you may have something. As the situation stands right now, you have extremely vulnerable ships you're expecting non-combat focused characters to deploy into situations where they're lambs to the slaughter for even a lackadaisical gatecamp. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
Vigilant Gallente Vigilant's Vigilante's	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:29:00 - [24] A system with my name on it, with 10000 belts of "OMG" rocks and ice worth billions that respawn daily for JUST me. Did I mention this system can be entered by just me and my corp mates, and cyno is always open, cause there is no other way into said system. -------- /me stops dreaming. A place where I can mine and ratt in peace. Since that is not possable, pretty much no reason to go there for any lenght of time.
Xano Heroma Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Cassandra Valieries No more gatecamps. Simple as that. yes no gatecamps and if the reward of working in low sec was worth it. as it is now, its not worth the risk ! soo actually the PvP'ers own reasoning that keeps carebears in high sec ! the so called "risk vs.reward" for a carebear to work in low sec theirs only a slight more reward but a BIG risk ! soo logicly not a good option !
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:32:00 - [26] Originally by: Blastil Edited by: Blastil on 31/10/2008 15:07:22 CCP has been emphasizing getting carebears and industrialists out into lowsec and nullsec in a non-PVP role. At every turn this has fallen through, since it seems carebears are all dead set against risk in any shape or form. It's because you CAN'T go to lowsec and nullsec in a non-PVP role. The second you try to go there, even in a BC class ship, you will be blown apart with no chance. Last time I took a look around 0.0 I lost a BC before I even MWD'd 12km back to the gate. Still, I had a good look around in my pod that no-one could catch. Shame it was sod all use other than looking at stuff that I might have been able to do if I was in a ship of some sort. Lowsec at least you have some chance of survival, but in 0.0 bubbles pull you out of warp and you are mincemeat. pffft. ... and no, I don't want a second job, I don't want to have to log in on corporate ops at certain times. So, what would get me into Low and Nullsec is not guaranteed death on a stick as soon as the jumpgate goes whoosh. You moan about people not wanting to go there, but kill them all with overwhelming force as soon as they do!
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:34:00 - [27] Originally by: Kuar Z'thain That's great man, keep mining all those roids to make ships for us to pew pew. Great, we're in agreement. I will. If I'm happy doing that, then why do people have a problem with it? -------------------- What? Me Worry? --------------------
Scagga Laebetrovo Evil Bastards	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:34:00 - [28] Edited by: Scagga Laebetrovo on 31/10/2008 15:34:58 I will suggest a few things, but first I must make the assumption mentioned below: First assumption: 0.0. and Low sec should become more populated because this is a 'good' thing. Defining with the problem Let's start with the basics: the problem with manufacturing and populations in low sec are intertwined. They feed off each other when equilibrium sets in, but usually there first needs to be a reason to create demand for supply to increase. I would call these incentives, particularly ones that can outweigh the risks encountered, while also exceeding the abilities to achieve the same goal in high sec space. Proposed approaches to the problem 1. Agents - A low sec specific suggestion: Tie the quality of a level 4 agent to the frequency that they are used: Low sec agents will become significantly better over time due to reduced use in comparison to those in high sec. This would mean that running l4 low sec missions would be even more profitable than l4 high sec missions as it stands now. Note: Some people have suggested moving all level 4 agents to low sec/0.0. I am not convinced that taking that action is a wholly good idea at this moment in time. 2. Work on existing attractions: Factional Warfare - Factional warfare (I've got ideas for this in my campaign thread) could use tweaks to its mechanics and incentives to make it worth doing without having to take breaks to earn cash through other means as often - Tying in with Factional warfare would be modifications to fleet warfare to make it easier to command small gangs in various locations simultaneously, reducing blob warfare and increasing the spread of targets - Add pirate factions to Factional warfare (see next proposal) 3. Piracy While this might sound counter-intuitive, I think that piracy in low sec needs to be looked at and enhanced. I would love to see pirate faction agents supplied in low sec, sending pilots to kill high ranking members of empire militias, or even against rival pirate factions! More pvp'ers in low sec will create increased demand, particularly if they are working for pirate agents based in low sec. (Note: These agents would not be operating in the same way as current agents, I envision them as a bridge between FW, PVE and PVP) - Please see my campaign thread for specifics, including the answers I gave to Mr Slarti's questions on improving the pirate's everyday activities 4. Trading mechanics - Enhancements to the trade interface could make it easier for traders to assess where there is demand by being able to see WHERE buying/selling is taking place. This would help them know where to set up new low sec trading hubs. For specifics, please see my campaign thread e.g. embargoes, player-run shops 5. Inter-corporate and alliance Treaty formalisation - Right now it is not as easy as it could be to arrange formal relations between corporations, e.g. trade embargoes, supply contracts etc. I have proposed that contracts be worked on to include 'treaties', which allow a corporation to perform a service for another, while having that treaty active automatically gives them the standings and orders to fill. This streamlines diplomacy and allows the creation of more complex, mutually beneficial relationships to be much more straightforward Scagga is running for the CSM, see his campaign thread to know of his standpoints!
Ana Vyr Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:41:00 - [29] Lowsec and Nullsec....non-PvP role. Say what? What non-PvP roles are there in those places? Anything you do there will basically amount to PvP, ultimately. You can't mine or transport in anything approximating safety in such places. Certainly not solo at least. What would get me out there? I guess when I'm good and ready to go take some risks and lose some ships. I'm not there yet. My current goals involve getting into a Hulk, getting a couple transport ships together, finding a corp to join, that sort of thing. Losing ISK is not a good plan now as that will set me back on my goals. Thus, going into lowsec is counter productive at this point.
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.31 15:46:00 - [30] low sec: no gatecamps, no station camps rewards that dont require you to stay in 1 place for a long time rewards that dont make you light up like a christmas tree... you know so it actualy takes effort and time to be scaned down rewards wich are sort of needed but unique to low sec 0.0 consistently good systems not just 5 per region especialy the "inner" regions need some attention (moons and rats) about 5000% (and im not exagerating this infact even more would be good) more exploration content



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