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THX420
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Posted - 2008.11.01 22:28:00 -
[1]
It seems that the conventional wisdom for blaster battleships is to go with a mwd. That's what most of the recommended setups seem to say and that's what I've been using, usually along with a webifier as well. I guess the idea is to be able to quickly close-in to optimal with the target and, if you've got a webifier too, to web them in place. That all makes sense, but I'm curious how an afterburner would work out instead of a mwd?
With an afterburner, there would be more total capacitor and less demand on cap and, while it would be far slower against mwd opponents that might want to maintain distance from you, they would be forced to use their mwd against your ab, thus draining their already penalized cap and increasing their sig radius while you are able to keep steadily rumbling toward them on the strength of your afterburner.
So, against mwd battleships, wouldn't a bs fitted instead with an afterburner do well, or are there battleships that can easily run their mwd for the duration of a fight and therefore dictate range indefinitely? If I'm not mistaken, maybe that would be true of Minmatar battleships, since if they kept out of range of your blasters they wouldn't even need to use their cap to shield boost anyway, so their cap could be used solely to run their mwd in that situation.
It also occurs to me that a mwd would be necessary to get within optimal of smaller/faster ships like battlecruisers which would otherwise have no problem staying out of blaster range if you only had an afterburner. But then, even if you had a mwd, if those ships were also fitted with a mwd then you'd have the same problem regardless.
So what's the bottom line on mwd/ab on a blasterboat? Are mwd's the only choice for blaster setups, or is there something to be said for going with an ab instead?
And is a webifier also an essential requirement for a blaster bs? On Caldari, which I am (Rokh), having to fit a mwd (or ab) and a webifier really puts a dent in my mid slots and therefore the amount of tank I can fit. But without a webifier it means that I would sometimes need to run my mwd just to stay within optimal, crippling my cap which I need for the blasters and the shield booster. If it could work the way I'm hoping, using an ab - even running it permanently to maintain optimal - would be great instead of having to fit a mwd as well as web. But would it work?
I would be grateful for any advice on this.
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Foruman
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.01 22:32:00 -
[2]
you r ugly
Have you been high today?
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Strill
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Posted - 2008.11.01 22:45:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Strill on 01/11/2008 22:45:56
 Quote:
With an afterburner, there would be more total capacitor and less demand on cap and, while it would be far slower against mwd opponents that might want to maintain distance from you, they would be forced to use their mwd against your ab, thus draining their already penalized cap and increasing their sig radius while you are able to keep steadily rumbling toward them on the strength of your afterburner.
This is a losing situation even if you eventually catch them. They are doing damage to you but you are doing no damage to them. The damage advantage you get from blasters is slim already. If you cut down your damage even more with travel times then you end up doing less damage than a medium range setup, which means there was no point in using a blaster ship.
Quote:
So, against mwd battleships, wouldn't a bs fitted instead with an afterburner do well, or are there battleships that can easily run their mwd for the duration of a fight and therefore dictate range indefinitely? If I'm not mistaken, maybe that would be true of Minmatar battleships, since if they kept out of range of your blasters they wouldn't even need to use their cap to shield boost anyway, so their cap could be used solely to run their mwd in that situation.
Even a dominix or a typhoon can run a MWD for 80 seconds without a cap booster. 80 seconds is way more than enough time to make the fight unwinnable for you.
Quote:
It also occurs to me that a mwd would be necessary to get within optimal of smaller/faster ships like battlecruisers which would otherwise have no problem staying out of blaster range if you only had an afterburner. But then, even if you had a mwd, if those ships were also fitted with a mwd then you'd have the same problem regardless.
It's even worse with post-patch webifiers, afterburners, and warp scramblers.
Quote:
So what's the bottom line on mwd/ab on a blasterboat? Are mwd's the only choice for blaster setups, or is there something to be said for going with an ab instead?
If you somehow have some way of magically warping in on top of your target during every fight, then sure fit an afterburner and speed tank them. If not, fit a MWD. If you can't get in range, you're dead.
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THX420
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Posted - 2008.11.02 01:09:00 -
[4]
Fair enough, microwarpdrive it is. It was probably a bad case of wishful thinking on my part that an afterburner would suffice. 
Now I just need to decide whether or not to fit a webifier too. I would put one on without hesitation if it didn't gimp my tank. I guess I could get away without a webifier since the mwd could keep me within optimal, but that would be pretty hard on my cap, even with a cap booster running.
Thanks for the advice!
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Infinity Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.11.02 01:21:00 -
[5]
If you try AB mega for example and try to fight a tempest. You will get kept at 20km until he has nukes ALL your cap. When he is sure you are no more dangerous than an wingless butterfly it will come close and kill you. Both tempest havign an AB or a MWD.
So you need a MWD so you can win if you overheat the MWD and get tempest by surprise (and the tempest has to wait 10 second to overheat himself). If you get to 5 km of the tempest you win, easy. But if you screw this and let him keep range too long you are dead.. will be a slow death, very slow since tempest is not uber dps. But will be a sure death.
You can try web drones, they might change that outcome.... if the tempest pilot is not clever
IF you try again ammar they will dish a ton of damage from 50 km until you get close. Thee ammar BS quite sometimes do not have MWD out of 0.0. So you might catch them. But you will be at half armor if you do it in an AB. If you have to cross 50 km to reach an armageddon, and do it with AB only. You will regreat a lot trying that fight. When you reach your high dps zone you will be facing a ship with 85% of your firepower... but you are already at half armor... and he has more armor than you had before the fight!!!
If you try against a raven, well then (as things are on sisi) you will win because raven will do VERY low damage onto you until you get close and stop. And then you have damage advantage.
So for blaster ships MWD is still the best option. AB is viable for minmatar now although. (worked for me with tempest and typhoon a few times on sisi)
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If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Artemis Rose
Varion Galactic
Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.11.02 06:38:00 -
[6]
Trying to use an AB on any blaster ships means just about every time you'll end up being kited by somebody with an MWD. Not good for you.
Plus, if they have ranged weaponry, all that time it takes you to close the gap is time they are dealing damage and you are not.
***
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2
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Furb Killer
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.02 08:28:00 -
[7]
How about rokh? It has plenty of range usually with null.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
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Posted - 2008.11.02 08:53:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Furb Killer
How about rokh? It has plenty of range usually with null.
But without a mwd it cannot dictate the engagement distances.
Plus tracking will suck. Usually faction is preferred over t2. T2 ammo is current a niche thing.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.02 10:20:00 -
[9]
I would rather use null instead of faction iron for range...
True that you cant dictate range, but with AM a rokh also deals good damage at close range.
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2008.11.02 14:24:00 -
[10]
Would an AB BS be able to "speed tank" cruise missiles or torpedoes w/ the new missile dmg formula? Not exactly a reason to fit one, but good to know....
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Infinity Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.11.02 17:04:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Zarnak Wulf
Would an AB BS be able to "speed tank" cruise missiles or torpedoes w/ the new missile dmg formula? Not exactly a reason to fit one, but good to know....
A typhoon or tempest with AB and not too slowed by armor rigs can tank a torp ship. Not totally but can reduce quite a lot the received damage.
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If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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