EVE Search - Cruiser vs af (with current and forthcoming patches)

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Cruiser vs af (with current and forthcoming patches)

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
aggi345	Posted - 2008.11.02 05:12:00 - [1] Is it still cruiser destroys them in every single way? and what about with the upcoming patches?
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2008.11.02 06:05:00 - [2] A cruiser loses to them almost always if the situation is right. Here are the pros and cons of an AF vs a cruiser. (In AF's favor of course.) Pros: A scrambler will turn off the cruiser's MWD and prevent escape. The cruiser's turrets will not track at under 10km if the AF has an AB. Webs in their new state do not change this equation. AF's can tank and are now much harder to hit. Cruiser sized missiles do little against an AF w/ an AB. When I see a cerb in my wolf I get very excited. Cons: An AF w/ an AB will go 1km/s to 1.2km/s. You can fudge this w/ overheating but it's often not fast enough to catch the target. An AF can be hit solidly at 10km+ from a cruiser. Unless it's a cerb. Nuets will cause an AF to melt quickly. Using a MWD if the cruiser has a web and scrambler is deadly. The AF will cease to speed tank and take hits solidy. Drones hurt. They can be shot out if the drone skills of the cruiser pilot are weak. Drone boats are usually kryptonite. If an AF gets on the cruiser - scrambler range - it can usually permarun a tank and eat through the cruiser. The cruiser only wins if it has a neut or is a drone boat. What I have discovered on Sisi is that most cruiser pilots still rush in to shoot at the wolf I fly at point blank range. I've had as many as three cruisers all trying to futiley hit me at 3000m. It's only when one gets a clue and moves to 10km+ that I die. When this roles out I imagine you'll have a bunch of cruisers bum rushing the AF's. When they learn to keep their range at all costs.... maybe I'll start a whine thread about the AF's speed.
4 LOM Caldari Light Infantry	Posted - 2008.11.02 06:36:00 - [3] Cerb running assault launchers most cause some issues? how about with precision lights? or are missiles that screwed? Originally by: Twilight Moon of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
Holy Lowlander Comply Or Die G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.11.02 08:56:00 - [4] what I find funny is that my sentinal can kill alot of cruisers 1 on 1 , but my retri/vengeance can't :)
Samaritan Azuma Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.02 11:38:00 - [5] get an ishkur w/ rails and mwd If it weren't for downtime, I wouldn't make stupid posts.
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2008.11.02 11:54:00 - [6] Originally by: 4 LOM Cerb running assault launchers most cause some issues? how about with precision lights? or are missiles that screwed? The Cerb's I came across did not have precision lights. It was HAMs that they were shooting at me. I killed the cerb and then jumped on the Broadsword shooting at me from 3km. (and not hitting). Broadsword had some wierd nano setup he was trying out.... Wolf is just plain evil now.
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2008.11.02 11:55:00 - [7] Originally by: Samaritan Azuma get an ishkur w/ rails and mwd I fear Sentinel's alot too. Will turn and run when I see one.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.02 12:06:00 - [8] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 02/11/2008 12:07:16 Generally, if you're not fitting neuts, a AF landing close to you is very deadly. A cruiser (on SISI) has the agility to try to keep a AF which landed far out off for long enough to kill it, but I prefer just neuting the living crap out of it, getting to some 5km and obliterating it. It's more reliable ;) Although training accel control V would be very much worth it for any AF pilots post patch to catch people more reliably, as you need to squeeze the most speed possible out of your AB setup. Worth fitting a cheap deadspace AB too. Neuts will still kill you. Vs AFs which can be fit with LR guns decently (like Ishkur) you can try MWD setups and keeping out of range, but that won't work vs Amarr/Minmatar/Caldari. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
DayVV4lkEr Liga Freier Terraner	Posted - 2008.11.03 12:59:00 - [9] Against the Neuts fit a Small Cap Injector II with 75er Charges. You can load around 50-90 of this charges to your afs cargo. safed a lot of afs for me on SiSi
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.03 13:05:00 - [10] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 03/11/2008 13:05:41 Originally by: DayVV4lkEr Against the Neuts fit a Small Cap Injector II with 75er Charges. You can load around 50-90 of this charges to your afs cargo. safed a lot of afs for me on SiSi Will have to try. I don't see (dual) neuts + light drones as something you have any hope of defending from honestly, but will try on SISI. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
DayVV4lkEr Liga Freier Terraner	Posted - 2008.11.03 13:33:00 - [11] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 03/11/2008 13:05:41 Originally by: DayVV4lkEr Against the Neuts fit a Small Cap Injector II with 75er Charges. You can load around 50-90 of this charges to your afs cargo. safed a lot of afs for me on SiSi Will have to try. I don't see (dual) neuts + light drones as something you have any hope of defending from honestly, but will try on SISI. To be exact the ships i have been flying have been the ishkur and the hawk (they have drones and missiles both don't need cap to kill hostile drones) but i think the smal cap injector should protect you from 1 (!!!) Neut. Ofc nothing is perfect but i liked it
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.11.03 14:56:00 - [12] Edited by: Ishina Fel on 03/11/2008 15:05:14 From pure EFT warrior'ing combined with the latest numbers from SiSi, I have a Harpy setup that should be nearly impossible to beat by anything frig-sized, unless it's a completely borked specialty fit designed as a direct counter. So far it's theoretical, but I sure plan to try it out once QR hits! Versus tech1 cruisers, I expect the same turnout, no questions asked. Tech 2 cruisers might be difficult. Amarr and Minmatar Recons will eat any AF alive, Caldari will simply flee, and Gallente ones... to be honest I know so little about them I can't predict it but they might be the least well equipped to deal with the small short-range buggers, drones nonwithstanding. Drones can be killed, and medium drones just got a whole lot less good. Some HACs can surely die to a well-flown AF, while others will simply permatank even the strongest offense the little ones can mount (hello Sacrilege). The key here lies in whether the AF can catch the HAC off guard. Any MWD HAC that manages to get to speed without being scrambled will very soon after grill the AF in just a few volleys. AB HACs... well, they better be tanked Heavy dictors will tank any AF. Always. The day I get killed in a heavy dictor by a solo AF is the day I quit EVE. NINJA EDIT: okay okay, plated buffer tank heavy dictors can and will die to solo AF's So much for the solo AF... but to be honest, we're not going to see those. What we're going to see is 20 AF wolfpacks (maybe even literally "Wolf packs", if we're looking at Minmatar RPers ) roaming the void left by the disappearance of mixed nano gangs. They might have to content with all-recon cloak gangs, though (which will be the new FOTM to be honest). And against those they'll lose badly.
RedSplat Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.11.03 16:09:00 - [13] More importantly: Is Merin going to have a moment of existential crisis when the patch goes live?
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2008.11.03 16:10:00 - [14] Originally by: 4 LOM Cerb running assault launchers most cause some issues? how about with precision lights? or are missiles that screwed? A Cerberus specifically fit for killing frigates (Painters, CN Lights (you won't need Precisions and their range is too crappy anyway) Crash, Rigour rigs (or missile velocity for the extra damage projection) will kill inties and AFs hilariously quickly. A bog-standard HM Cerb will have a much tougher time, however.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.03 16:24:00 - [15] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 03/11/2008 16:24:57 Originally by: Ishina Fel Versus tech1 cruisers, I expect the same turnout, no questions asked. How do you plan on taking care of neutralizers? ;) I assume you're talking about the Hawk, anyway. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2008.11.03 16:28:00 - [16] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Ishina Fel Versus tech1 cruisers, I expect the same turnout, no questions asked. How do you plan on taking care of neutralizers? ;) I assume you're talking about the Hawk, anyway. Also, ships like the Vexor/Arbitrator will be your death, no questions asked. I got a Hawk with a small nos to work well enough as neut defence. Drones did slaughter it, though.
InsanlyEvlPerson Gallente Night-Stalkers	Posted - 2008.11.03 16:29:00 - [17] as great as it sounds, the retri will still be useless as it lacks a second mid, and therefor has to either take full damage for lack of an AB, or be unable to hold the target down for lack of a scram. fix teh retri plz! --------------------------------------------- I may be a bit over Zealot, but i cant help myself, its the best investment i ever made!
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.03 16:39:00 - [18] Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Ishina Fel Versus tech1 cruisers, I expect the same turnout, no questions asked. How do you plan on taking care of neutralizers? ;) I assume you're talking about the Hawk, anyway. Also, ships like the Vexor/Arbitrator will be your death, no questions asked. I got a Hawk with a small nos to work well enough as neut defence. Drones did slaughter it, though. Damnit, I always have trouble getting people on SISI to test stuff with their AFs vs me, I really want to test how well neutralizers (dual neutralizers, both dual mid which I intend to use on BCs and dual small for cruisers) work on anti-neutralizer fits. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2008.11.03 16:47:00 - [19] That was tested a while back against an Ishtar with neuts. My cap was pretty much instantly nuked, but the nos let me run tackle and DC permanently, and the small booster occasionally (it was a hybrid active-buffer tank with significant passive regen). I couldn't run the AB though on the single nos, not with the booster drain. I didn't have a hope of killing drones quickly enough though, and he chewed through my tank without too much trouble. The medium drone nerf may have helped with that a bit.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.03 16:53:00 - [20] Originally by: Gypsio III That was tested a while back against an Ishtar with neuts. My cap was pretty much instantly nuked, but the nos let me run tackle and DC permanently, and the small booster occasionally (it was a hybrid active-buffer tank with significant passive regen). I couldn't run the AB though on the single nos, not with the booster drain. I didn't have a hope of killing drones quickly enough though, and he chewed through my tank without too much trouble. The medium drone nerf may have helped with that a bit. Oh, well, SISI time ;P Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2008.11.03 18:35:00 - [21] a single small nos can run everything except repper (I have good cap skills). Just micro your modules and you are fine. Once you are close, the cruiser pilot has nothing to laugh about. I had great success switching web with a balmer tracking disruptor on my ishkur. with a TD I can approach turret ships without getting hit. You can screw their tracking when you are close and or just reduce the range of the Vagabond/Zealot/everything longer range 20+km away to force them away or close. drone ships are hard, but doable in an ishkur (although it is always very close)
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.04 00:14:00 - [22] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 04/11/2008 00:15:46 Me and Gypsio just did a test - I was in a Hurricane, D180s (with Barrage loaded, so -25% tracking), 2x T2 medium neuts. No drones were used. The neuts, when used correctly, were able to break his tackle for a moment, allowing me to MWD out to lower transversal (and get out of small nos range) and kill him with turrets. My estimate would be that it took about 40 seconds or a bit more. It is definitely not trivial to shut down a AF completely even with two medium neuts, and I don't think one medium neut will work vs a properly setup AF. Will run some more testing when SISI is back up to see how various nossing frigates work. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Aleus Stygian	Posted - 2008.11.04 00:24:00 - [23] Has anyone here gotten much use of the Vengeance, just for one? I fly the Jaguar and Sentinel a good bit, and I love my Malediction regardless of its performance in a situation, but kicking it around with this little angry seal just doesn't seem to work unless you're all about tackling and shrugging fire. It's like winning a fight by sitting on some guy, while your friends each take turns beating his face to crap.
BadMessage Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.04 00:28:00 - [24] Edited by: BadMessage on 04/11/2008 00:28:29 Ishkur V.S. Caracal Another data point for you. But... the numbers don't quite add up. There was likely a tackler.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.04 00:33:00 - [25] Originally by: BadMessage Edited by: BadMessage on 04/11/2008 00:28:29 Ishkur V.S. Caracal Another data point for you. But... the numbers don't quite add up. There was likely a tackler. Want me to link my solo Drake/Ferox/Caracal kills with a Wolf (and once, Jaguar)? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2008.11.04 00:50:00 - [26] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 04/11/2008 00:15:46 Me and Gypsio just did a test - I was in a Hurricane, D180s (with Barrage loaded, so -25% tracking), 2x T2 medium neuts. No drones were used. The neuts, when used correctly, were able to break his tackle for a moment, allowing me to MWD out to lower transversal (and get out of small nos range) and kill him with turrets. My estimate would be that it took about 40 seconds or a bit more. It is definitely not trivial to shut down a AF completely even with two medium neuts, and I don't think one medium neut will work vs a properly setup AF. Will run some more testing when SISI is back up to see how various nossing frigates work. Just to add to this. Attempting to manually fly the AF in a suitable orbit, while checking overview for drones (and switching fire to them if they appear) while checking to see which mods have died through lack of cap, and then deciding which to reactivate when the nos cycles hit is a million miles from an easy task - it's micromanagement hell, really. In this case, I tried to keep my AB running and didn't notice that the scrambler had deactivated, allowing the Hurricane to MWD off and reduce transversal enough to get some solid hits on me. I suppose that's pilot error but there's so many things to watch that error is inevitable. I used a generic Hawk fitting, not specifically designed to counter neuts: 4x Rocket II, small dim nos AB II, Scram II, MSE II, SSB II DC II, MAPC 2x anti-EM rigs A fat sig and slow for an AF, but a solid buffer tank with the option to use excess cap to run the booster.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.04 00:53:00 - [27] Yeah, we need to run a bit more testing really, try one with a cap booster too ;) Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.11.04 02:57:00 - [28] Originally by: RedSplat More importantly: Is Merin going to have a moment of existential crisis when the patch goes live? Hardly... I'm happy to see AFs finally becoming something other than comedy ships. My only complaints are about the still-missing 4th bonuses, and the fact that most of their current usefulness is because interceptors have been so heavily nerfed. As for the OP's question... 7.5km scrams suck. Period. A frigate's first job is to tackle, and the 7.5km scram just doesn't do that well enough. There's a very good reason I (and every other pirate) traded our 7.5km scrams for 24km disruptors the moment WCS were nerfed and the double point was no longer necessary. Without 24-30km range, you just have too many targets warping off before you can get a point on them. ABs are still extremely underwhelming. Remember how the biggest problem of AFs on TQ right now is their lack of speed? Why would you want to essentially give up the speed boost they have on SiSi and go back to being slower than a cruiser? While an AB does give you more ability to tank once you're at point-blank range, getting there is a huge problem. And even once you succeed, now you're extremely vulnerable to webs/neuts/drones, and post-patch you can be very sure that neuts and Warrior IIs will become very popular choices. Now then, with that in mind, the answer to AF vs. CA is complicated and depends on exactly what scenario you're talking about: AF tackling a cruiser: This you should be able to do just fine. MWD + 24km point lets you avoid most damage, by range against close-range setups, and by tracking against long-range setups, out-range webs and neuts, and you've got enough tank to handle drones and precision missiles long enough for your friends to score the kill. AF vs CA, in a 1v1: This can really go either way, depending on the exact starting situation and player skills. The biggest problem is going to be the AF's lack of damage, while you might break the tank eventually, can you do it fast enough to get the killmail and scoop the loot before someone else joins the party? It's made even harder by the midslot problem. An AF needs three midslot modules: AB/MWD: even if you feel an AB is good enough, you still need one or the other. Point: again, even if you disagree with me about the 7.5km/24km issue, you still need at least one of them. Cap injector: especially if you're running MWD/24km, but to get decent results on pretty much any setup, you need more cap than passive regen can provide. Forget about things like the dual-rep uber-tank Vengeance, even with an AB/7.5km those aren't sustainable. Now, that immediately rules out the best gank AFs. The Wolf, Retribution, and Enyo just don't have the mids, leaving the Ishkur as the only one capable of getting damage output that really qualifies as "gank". And even on the Ishkur, I'm not convinced the blaster setup is a good idea. So, end result: a difficult fight, and one you probably can't win fast enough. AF vs. CA, gangs of equal size: This is bad for the AFs. Even the AB/7.5km setups can't keep up transversal against multiple opponents at once, so the cruiser's dps and tank advantages come back. Add in support cruisers (Blackbirds, etc.), and this is just going to be a massacre. Unless you really love AFs, I can't see much of a reason to fly the pure AF gang. ----------- Blaster sig removed for now, pending those "changes we've been working on all day". CCP, don't screw this up.
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2008.11.04 05:00:00 - [29] Quote: 7.5km scrams suck. Period. A frigate's first job is to tackle, and the 7.5km scram just doesn't do that well enough. There's a very good reason I (and every other pirate) traded our 7.5km scrams for 24km disruptors the moment WCS were nerfed and the double point was no longer necessary. Without 24-30km range, you just have too many targets warping off before you can get a point on them. I do disagree on this, you say a frigates first job I assume you mean both T1 and T2 variants which is simply not true. A Covop frigate is not a tackler, a stealth bomber is not a tackler and I would go so far as to say an AF is not a tackler. Interceptors are tacklers and t1 frigates are suicide tacklers. An AF is no more a tackler than a cruiser or battleship, if it can fit them it should be it's not the primary role which is obviously tank/gank on a frigate scale. And with AF you can orbit without an AB and still get under cruiser sized guns while webbed and if you are getting hit it's not for much. I won't dispute the 24km point is very beneficial but when you consider primary job is not a tackler and that the 9km(out to 11km for domination) shut off MWD makes sure that your opponent has a very difficult time trying to get the transversal down and allows your tacklers to move on to the next target while you and the rest of your buddies gank people. A web alone isn't really enough anymore unless you have dual webs from a rapier/huginn. BTW blaster ishkur is downright scary, not as powerful as when fit with rails but the blasters rip through people, very good when fighting bigger ships, whereas I'd take the rails when fighting other frigates. The mass reduction and base speed increase are VERY VERY nice though, makes AFs go much quicker than previous. With regards to MWD vs AB, I'd say if you plan on fitting a scram then a MWD is damn near a must taking 10 extra seconds to get into range pretty much ensures anyone sub-BS will warp away on you. The MWD can close that distance in less than half the time which isn't enough for most cruisers to even get away with. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
velmistr Ecco Caldari InNova Tech Inc Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.11.04 10:04:00 - [30] Originally by: Ishina Fel Edited by: Ishina Fel on 03/11/2008 15:07:12 From pure EFT warrior'ing combined with the latest numbers from SiSi, I have a Harpy setup that should be nearly impossible to destroy by anything frig-sized, unless it's a completely borked specialty fit designed as a direct counter. So far it's theoretical, but I sure plan to try it out once QR hits! Versus tech1 cruisers, I expect the same turnout, no questions asked. Will your setup be caracal proof? Would you show us your setup? My caracal anti frigate fit (as those already shown are comedy setups): [Caracal, AML PvP setup] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II Assault Missile Launcher II, Bloodclaw Precision Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Bloodclaw Precision Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Bloodclaw Precision Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Bloodclaw Precision Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Bloodclaw Precision Light Missile Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Hornet EC-300 x2 Lows might be BCS+DCU too to gain nearly 5k ehp more. Quote: Weirdtopia > i need help in eve Bloodspoon > ...you installed eve? Weirdtopia > ya 14 day trial Bloodspoon > did you unistall WoW Weirdtopia > no Bloodspoon > then i can't help ya

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.