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[Suggestion] Genuine kill mails

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
blh 42 Exotic Dancers Freelancer Club	Posted - 2008.11.04 10:37:00 - [1] I've stumbled over the fact, which I believe many pilots in their career has. The fact that people more or less often alter the content of kill mails prior to posting them. The tampering maybe be done to remove unwanted pilots or to change the statistics in one way or another. As a techie, I believe that this could be fixed in a very simple way. Say for example, that the kill mails sent are signed by GPG, which is a freeware and may be downloaded from http://www.gnupg.org. In order to verify the mails, the servers hosting killboards world need need the public part of CCP's signing key. That would show if the mails content is genuine or not. The next question is of course how to prove how genuine the information is that is stored in various databases of hosted killboards. One way would there be to store the signed mails as they are as well as parsing them so that people may download the raw mails and validate the signature them selfs. .blh 42 http://blh.scorpionshops.com/blh42_sign.gif http://sigs.griefwatch.net/phpbbsig.php/h4xx/argentblue/blh 42.jpg Please only use one image in your signature and make sure that it adheres to the 24000 byte filesize limit -Sahwoolo Etoophie
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.11.04 10:55:00 - [2] The thing is, if you want to assure accuracy in the system, you should be ensuring it all the way through. Not only when it comes to ensuring that individual mails are accurate, but also when it comes to ensuring that they're representative and complete. If people not on the kill have a right to know how it went, then they also have a right to know about the kill if you'd rather keep it quiet, right? CCP has said that's not going to happen, and I agree with their rationale. Killmails exist to inform the players involved of what happened, any use outside the dead guy and the guy who scored the final blow is incidental.

CCP Mitnal C C P	Posted - 2008.11.04 11:43:00 - [3] Moved to Assembly Hall. Mitnal Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang

Anjinha Napalm Death Industries	Posted - 2008.11.04 16:33:00 - [4] Edited by: Anjinha on 04/11/2008 16:37:49 Ok, what if all killmails were stored in a CCP's killmail server? If you die or kill someone, you get a killmail link. You copy and paste the killmail link to your local killmail server. The killmail is retrieved once from CCP's killmail server to the local killmail server's database. To avoid abuse of CCP's killmail server usage, some kind of "bandwidth limitation" or "download amount limit per period" would be probably enough. Industrialists' ideas for EVE "We don't need Santa Claus... we need his factory"
Scatim Helicon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.11.08 11:50:00 - [5] First you should probably explain why you think altering killmails is a bad thing, exactly? Killboards aren't part of EVE itself, they're an external tool for corps and alliances run by people with no affiliation to CCP (sometimes by people who don't even play EVE!). The information held within a killmail can be an important source of battlefield intelligence, and players should be free to post, alter or withhold them if they wish. -----------
Earthican Minmatar DARKFELL EXCURSIONS	Posted - 2009.01.01 22:40:00 - [6] Originally by: Anjinha Edited by: Anjinha on 04/11/2008 16:37:49 Ok, what if all killmails were stored in a CCP's killmail server? If you die or kill someone, you get a killmail link. You copy and paste the killmail link to your local killmail server. The killmail is retrieved once from CCP's killmail server to the local killmail server's database. To avoid abuse of CCP's killmail server usage, some kind of "bandwidth limitation" or "download amount limit per period" would be probably enough. signed
Kattilyn Amarr SIEGE. The Border Patrol	Posted - 2009.01.01 23:52:00 - [7] First of all, killboards are not EVE Online itself, but a player-run extension. Second of all, CCP has already listened to this sort of request; this is why the CEO (and directors with certain roles, I think) have the ability to see ALL killmails of their corpmates via the API. This is why all the good killboards support this method of submission and authentication. If you have a problem with the fact that the killboards don't enforce API-verified kills only or that they allow modification of them before or after the fact, you need to bring that up with the killboard's creators.. this is not a problem to bring up with CCP, because CCP has no ability to tell, say, Griefwatch, to only allow API-collected killmails to be shown.
Deldrac	Posted - 2009.01.02 13:59:00 - [8] Edited by: Deldrac on 02/01/2009 13:59:18 Originally by: Kattilyn If you have a problem with the fact that the killboards don't enforce API-verified kills only or that they allow modification of them before or after the fact, you need to bring that up with the killboard's creators. The problem is that api only works where your corp/alliance has the killing blow. If the api could be used to draw down all kills you are involved in, I'd agree entirely.
Xthril Ranger hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.02 14:56:00 - [9] Edited by: Xthril Ranger on 02/01/2009 14:56:05 The api thingie have already solved this. It is the killboard admin own fault if he accept unverified killmails from unreliable sources. This goes 2 ways , do not give your api to an unreliable kb admin. If no one will trust you with their api , try to sync with the killboards that got the apis. . you'll never jump alone
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2009.01.02 15:55:00 - [10] I still fail to see the value of any kind of kill mail. It's almost as if it wasn't really the original intent of the game.... It's nothing more than a ego trip.... if you where going to track kills... it should be simplified. But that's me. =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============

Hesod Adee KDS Navy	Posted - 2009.01.02 20:24:00 - [11] Originally by: Scatim Helicon First you should probably explain why you think altering killmails is a bad thing, exactly? Because if you kill someone with the help of another group and a member of that group gets the finishing blow, they get the km. Meaning they can edit you off it, meaning you can't prove your kill. Personally the only change I'd like to see to killmails is for everyone on the km to get a copy, even though this would probably mean we have to wait till downtime for the km to arrive. ---------------------------------------------- I support skill queues
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.01.02 22:14:00 - [12] I have never understood the obession with kill mails. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Seth Ruin Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.01.03 04:31:00 - [13] Edited by: Seth Ruin on 03/01/2009 04:32:52 Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri I have never understood the obession with kill mails. Unfortunately, it's the primary method alliances use to audit their members to ensure they are participating in necessary ops. I would love to see killmails include not only the victim and those who inflicted direct damage on him, but also: Anybody who performed logistics help (i.e., remote repping) on BOTH damage dealers and victim Anybody who used ECM, webifiers, and warp disruptors on the victim Anybody who used any other kind of targeted beneficial action on BOTH damage dealers and victim Anybody who used any kind of non-targeted beneficial action (i.e., gang bonuses) on BOTH damage dealers and victim This way, the alliance leadership gets a better idea of who was helping out on the kill without everyone having to scramble to attempt to fire at the victim before it pops. Especially those who are fit specifically for logistics or electronic warfare, it's very difficult to get on a killmail, despite having helped. Back to the OP: I somewhat agree with the poster who mentioned the API helping out a lot with the problem of unverified killmails. However, I would also like a way for others (perhaps even just CEOs and Alliance leadership) to verify the kill mail via a link, in-game our out-of-game. Related to that issue, perhaps CEOs/Alliance leadership could have an option to "View Kill and Loss Mails" in the context menu when right-clicking on their members.
Haakelen Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.03 15:25:00 - [14] Originally by: Seth Ruin Anybody who used ECM, webifiers, and warp disruptors on the victim It already does this, fyi.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2009.01.03 18:15:00 - [15] Originally by: Seth Ruin Edited by: Seth Ruin on 03/01/2009 04:32:52 Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri I have never understood the obession with kill mails. Unfortunately, it's the primary method alliances use to audit their members to ensure they are participating in necessary ops. I would love to see killmails include not only the victim and those who inflicted direct damage on him, but also: Anybody who performed logistics help (i.e., remote repping) on BOTH damage dealers and victim Anybody who used ECM, webifiers, and warp disruptors on the victim Anybody who used any other kind of targeted beneficial action on BOTH damage dealers and victim Anybody who used any kind of non-targeted beneficial action (i.e., gang bonuses) on BOTH damage dealers and victim This way, the alliance leadership gets a better idea of who was helping out on the kill without everyone having to scramble to attempt to fire at the victim before it pops. Especially those who are fit specifically for logistics or electronic warfare, it's very difficult to get on a killmail, despite having helped. Back to the OP: I somewhat agree with the poster who mentioned the API helping out a lot with the problem of unverified killmails. However, I would also like a way for others (perhaps even just CEOs and Alliance leadership) to verify the kill mail via a link, in-game our out-of-game. Related to that issue, perhaps CEOs/Alliance leadership could have an option to "View Kill and Loss Mails" in the context menu when right-clicking on their members. Well at least THAT makes sense. But these days KM's only get waved around like a bunch of stupid e-peens. =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
GoodNDead	Posted - 2009.01.03 21:16:00 - [16] well it would be nice that players and corps could receive mails on kills they were involved with.. then they would just sync there api with a kill board or battle clinic and all is done.


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