| Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Joss Sparq
Caldari
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
   |
Posted - 2008.11.07 10:50:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Warrio
Originally by: Joss Sparq
Edited by: Joss Sparq on 07/11/2008 01:23:00
Originally by: Warrio
A shame but as someone once said, the squeaky wheel gets the kick.
You sound a little squeaky now yourself, Warrio 
Where getting a kick = getting my way then sign me up to some squeaking!
Originally by: Lord Fitz
The squeaky ones have been getting a kick alright, right in the face. Can you think of anything lately that has gone the way that the vocal community wanted it to?
I see your point, though I wouldn't go so far as to say the "vocal community" always deserves what it wants but I do acknowledge there have been instances where official elements have been ... decidedly lacking when it comes to getting certain things done.
|
Col Callahan
Caldari
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.11.07 12:26:00 -
[32]
My numbers are saying if that dev blog is right that you can produce the stuff at cost. meaning you make no money at all in the end.
If you make Ferrogel then your bring home every month before fuel cost is 12bils.
1:20 of 12bills is around 600mill. that's how much it cost's to run 4 large towers in sov space these days, so, like I said. pointless and useless and to bad to see a good idea be so fruitless.
_
|
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.11.07 12:33:00 -
[33]
What's really sad is that when CCP Chronotis posted this idea almost a year ago, his initial without thinking anything out idea was much better. I can't believe that in a year all that they succeed in doing is ruining the original good idea.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
|
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
|
Posted - 2008.11.07 12:55:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 07/11/2008 12:56:53
Updating the figures I had, I see what you mean now, with only 90k per hour on an alchemy reaction of ferrofluid. :/
That said, I rekon you'll also find that in at least the example I gave before, Cadmium has had the hell manipulated out of it. I'd be very *very* surprised if prices managed to sustain at that level.
Oh well, reacting straight Dysprosium/Hafnium will still turn about 2.3 million an hour given current market prices, not going to argue with that :)
But that's the edge that'll happen, and the waiting game that'll develop IMO. Market manipulators, when the profit of the standard reaction is just so good by comparison, will just lose out big time until the price differences reach an equilibrium.
Improve Market Competition! |
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.11.07 13:22:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Unfortunately as it stands the current implementation actually reduces wars compared to the days of old. Because people are no longer fighting to take space, they're merely fighting to take specific moons, which all in all means less fighting, and less fun fighting. It also means a lot more titans and doomsdays.
Bingo... the cartels holding the R64s are not going to change, and because the bottleneck has only shifted to the left one step, and because dyspro is tied to another heavily used slightly rare mat we'll be seeing fights over less space, or more fights in a concentrated space.
The idea of the alternate mat proposal was that given enough alternate supply you could bypass the R64s entirely. Bear in mind I said enough supply, so it would have to be so large as to make it all but impossible unless you held every single R8 moon in the game for instance.
We can quabble over the ratios, but the idea is sound and it would put more targets in low sec. |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.11.07 15:37:00 -
[36]
I don't think there's a problem so much with the 'value' of 0.0 moons / space. I think largely the issue is that it's concentrated in so few moons. To take space requires huge fleets / titans etc. But to hold it in normal time (ie the 90% of the time region is not contested) only takes 1 person to squeeze out 99% of the value of a region.
0.0 is always valuable to have, because it has almost all of the harvestable moons. Lowsec is really fairly small in comparison.
Bridges have made it easy to hold large swathes of space, and dyspro moons have made it worth the little extra effort. Eve feels so small these days, it should be undesirable for one group to hold space at opposite ends of the map. Because it's logistically hard and requires players there to do. Those players should get something out of it, not just the handful that are at the top.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
|
Bratomir
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 01:59:00 -
[37]
DevBlog: "take 100 hafnium and 100 cadmium to make 100 unrefined ferrofluid, which can then be refined down to give 10 ferrofluid and 95 hafnium. The final ratios at the end of the process see you using 100 cadmium and 5 hafnium to create 10 ferrofluid, per cycle"
I see reaction in Eve-game: 100 hafnium and 100 cadmium to make 1 unrefined ferrofluid!!!
Why such distinctions? |
Chomapuraku
Caldari
Phantasmal Collective
Sylph Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 02:21:00 -
[38]
how are these fuel costs calculated? is that the cost of a tower dedicated to nothing but reactions? a tower with just a moon miner, silos, reactors, and a hangar? a tower that's already there, being used for other things, but now has to run a miner, reactor, and coupling?
|
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 03:58:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Chomapuraku
how are these fuel costs calculated? is that the cost of a tower dedicated to nothing but reactions? a tower with just a moon miner, silos, reactors, and a hangar? a tower that's already there, being used for other things, but now has to run a miner, reactor, and coupling?
Most people will calculate costs based on towers that they have to put up for the purpose, as that makes sense. In reality there are a number of 'there anyway' towers which is why some of the more common moon materials sell for less than the cost to mine them. Given that most 'other' things you want to do with a tower will also be competing for CPU, the only towers that 'are there anyway' are towers you base out of or hold sov with, in which case the amount you have for reactions is fairly limited. |
Arra Lith
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 12:31:00 -
[40]
Now CCP should add more alchemy options - to react racial minerals from gases, ie:
atmospheric gases + cobalt = unrefined crystallite alloy
atmospheric gases + caesium = unrefined caesarium cadmide
evaporite deposits + scandium = unrefined fernite
evaporite deposits + hafnium = unrefined vanadium hafnite
hydrocarbons + titanium = unrefined titanium chromide
hydrocarbons + caesium = unrefined solerium
silicates + tungsten = unrefined rolled tungsten
silicates + technetium = unrefined platinum technite
silicates + hydrocarbons = unrefined hexite
That would give cap price for minerals that got their price artificially affected with current change. |
Tamarana
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 13:50:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Arra Lith
Now CCP should add more alchemy options - to react racial minerals from gases, ie:
atmospheric gases + cobalt = unrefined crystallite alloy
atmospheric gases + caesium = unrefined caesarium cadmide
evaporite deposits + scandium = unrefined fernite
evaporite deposits + hafnium = unrefined vanadium hafnite
hydrocarbons + titanium = unrefined titanium chromide
hydrocarbons + caesium = unrefined solerium
silicates + tungsten = unrefined rolled tungsten
silicates + technetium = unrefined platinum technite
silicates + hydrocarbons = unrefined hexite
That would give cap price for minerals that got their price artificially affected with current change.
I support this, but I understand that this will be basically useless the 99,99% of the time. This because the cost minimum is the cost of the fuel needed to run the POS. And this is around (now) 110 K isk/hour. Or 11 K isk/unit of unrefined product.
Given the prices of the products on the market and the unused capacity out there, if prices go up for anything other than the highest end products (basically only the dysprosium dependand materials) there wil be more conventional reactions, not more "alchemy" reactions.
|
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 14:56:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Tamarana
I support this, but I understand that this will be basically useless the 99,99% of the time. This because the cost minimum is the cost of the fuel needed to run the POS. And this is around (now) 110 K isk/hour. Or 11 K isk/unit of unrefined product.
Given the prices of the products on the market and the unused capacity out there, if prices go up for anything other than the highest end products (basically only the dysprosium dependand materials) there wil be more conventional reactions, not more "alchemy" reactions.
This is how it should be, alchemy should only be worth doing if the price of an ingredient is more than a certain amount of hours worth of POS fuel. It shouldn't be, as is the case at the moment, in any way based upon any mineral that is hard to get.
ALL the reactions should be possible using only gases, and maybe R8's. But with enough POS's required so that each R16/32/64 is worth at least a certain amount of POS fuel + the large amount of labour saved.
Presently the amount of labour might be right if the materials were worthless. But they're not, they're still using relatively rare inputs. |
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 05:28:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Arra Lith
Now CCP should add more alchemy options - to react racial minerals from gases, ie:
atmospheric gases + cobalt = unrefined crystallite alloy
atmospheric gases + caesium = unrefined caesarium cadmide
evaporite deposits + scandium = unrefined fernite
evaporite deposits + hafnium = unrefined vanadium hafnite
hydrocarbons + titanium = unrefined titanium chromide
hydrocarbons + caesium = unrefined solerium
silicates + tungsten = unrefined rolled tungsten
silicates + technetium = unrefined platinum technite
silicates + hydrocarbons = unrefined hexite
That would give cap price for minerals that got their price artificially affected with current change.
Just a quick note, that this is basically a rehash of the original idea posted by Chron some time back. We lauded it then, thought that it required some tweaking obviously, but never in our right minds would we have linked it the way its done now. |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |