| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Baal Aristaeus
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
   |
Posted - 2008.11.05 11:57:00 -
[1]
Hi my fellow podders and podd..ed?
I am currently working on a quite extensive report regarding physics in EVE Online.
So far I believe I've been able to sum up the biggest ballbusters, so to speak; the max velocity, faster than light speeds and all that. However, there are a few things that I need some help with, and could use some input!
1. ON the topic of max velocity, why did CCP put it in at all? Other than the fact that it would ruin game balance. There has to be some other reason as well?
2. Moving planets and moons in solar systems. Why does not planets, moons, stations, asteroid belts and rotate around their respective pivot point? What I mean is; for example planets rotate around their own axis, but not around the sun. Why is this?
Would appriciate any and all (serious? :P) answers!
Thank you all!
PS. Random comments are also cool...
Baal Aristaeus eats horses.. |
Mallikanth
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 12:03:00 -
[2]
1. It's there because the game mechanics go a little awry when "extreme" speeds are introduced. The exact wording can be found in a fairly recent dev blog about the speed nerfs I believe.
2. Moving planets etc in orbits introduces more maths, more updates, more lag I would presume. Also warping to planet x would be a bit problematic (not impossible but more work) because the planet is in orbit and not a fixed position.
3. I like pie.
4. With beer.
5. And Cake (No lie).
|
Lord Haur
Amarr
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 12:05:00 -
[3]
Short answer:
1) game balance. Also shouldn't a small speedboat (interceptor) be able to move faster than a cruise liner (battleship)?
2) It's simpler. Means they can denote locations using a standard x/y/z system, without having to deal with things moving within that.
Long Answer:
/me calls in the physics experts and CCP devs
--- Sig Starts Here ---
Lord Haur - Imperial Academy Logistical Support
|
Ishihiro tanaka
Amarr
Association of Freelance Agentrunner
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 12:07:00 -
[4]
As stated above, all the calculations in combat are done server side and indeed, high speeds tend to screw around the formulae to such an extend that it gets ridiculous.
Planets and so orbiting will give problems in the database since all thing anchored around planets, moons and stations need their positions updated every now an than which is, again, a server side issue and increases valuable CPU usage.
I like beer also, get me a ticket to island and Ill buy you one @ fanfest :) It's dirt cheap there hahahaha
.. ... .... .. .... .. .-. --- - .- -. .- -.- .-
A bullet, Laser beam or Plasma charge may have your name on it..... A Smartbomb or Shrapnel is adressed "To whom it may concern"... |
Baal Aristaeus
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 12:13:00 -
[5]
Thanks guys!
Regarding the Orbit and stuff, I had pretty much tought of that too.. Orbit would complicate things alot.
As for max velocity, what kind of speeds are we talking about here? And yes! I'd forgotten about the thing with damage and hit calculations and that the targets speed was used in the calculation!
/BAal
Baal Aristaeus eats horses.. |
Asestorian
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 12:16:00 -
[6]
Speed is a game mechanic, so they have to keep it limited for the balance of the game, even if there were no technical limitations. Unfortunately, there do also seem to be technical limitations to EVE's speed/physics engine. There really is no other reason for it. As for the planets/moons, I seem to remember a dev explaining why they didn't move. They couldn't find a reason for it in a game sense, so they decided to remove a little bit of realism so that they didn't have to do any extra coding or add a little bit more load to their servers.
Basically, the answer to both is: EVE is a game.
---
 Originally by: CCP Atropos
Destiny Balls
|
Lord Haur
Amarr
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 12:17:00 -
[7]
AFAIK, pre-speed nerf, the MAX top speed for a maxxed out interceptor pilot (or possibly Vaga with oversized MWD) with implants, rigs, maxxed claymore pilot in gang etc. etc. was about 50-60km/s. Admittedly, this is increadibly rare, the formulae probably start breaking around the 10-20km/s mark.
--- Sig Starts Here ---
Lord Haur - Imperial Academy Logistical Support
|
Baal Aristaeus
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 12:22:00 -
[8]
Hmm, 60km/s? that's insane... Imagine if there were no speed limit.. Everyone would accelerate till we were almost at light speed, trying to fight.. It would be impossible :P
Baal Aristaeus eats horses.. |
IR Scoutar
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 12:24:00 -
[9]
thats gona be a short short report...
eve doesnt have any physics
it has a few things that try to make up for the lack of physics but in general theyr all broken and useless
wich in allot of cases is actualy a good thing because it would introduce too many cpu cycles simply for calculations like that
to your questions
1) max velocity is always a game balance / calculations formula kind of thing
most of these things work well in a narrow band of numbers but once you exeed that band it all does wrong
because its not trying to be close to real as possible
it trys to be as efficient as possible in a game envelope
and if you got spare cpu time left you sometimes crank up the realism
but in most cases you start off with an engine with more function but as development progresses you see that you have to disable or simple dont continue to develop more and more fuctions because they simply break the envisoned game or open up too many can of worms sotospeak
2) every entity must be constantly updated if you want a x y z reference (wich is easyest and most efficient to work with) wich eats allot of cpu cycles and only gets worse the more entitys there are
aditionaly its just game fun breaking because your x y z reference bookmarks are x y z points in space not x y z points on an orbit thats constantly changing so bookmarks would be pointless
wich is again game breaking
all in all its too much hassle to put it simply
|
Tzar'rim
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 12:28:00 -
[10]
^
What he said.
|
|
|
Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 12:34:00 -
[11]
Originally by: IR Scoutar
thats gona be a short short report...
eve doesnt have any physics
it has a few things that try to make up for the lack of physics but in general theyr all broken and useless
What I was going to say. But I'd have used proper capitalization at least. Hmpf.  
|
Kenpachi Viktor
Gradient
Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 12:35:00 -
[12]
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_relativity
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrange_points
|
Bimjo
Caldari
Domination.
Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 12:43:00 -
[13]
another physics item that is not like in RL for you to note :
Inertia.
a small ship can bump a titan,where as if in real life a BS hit a titan the titan should only be nudged ever so slightly and not spun out of a pos's forcefield
|
Baal Aristaeus
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 12:44:00 -
[14]
I feel I need to clearify :P
I am writing about where EVE breaks todays Laws of physics :P
Have about 10 pages so far! :)
/BAal
PS: Appriciate the anwers, keep them coming!
Baal Aristaeus eats horses.. |
Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 12:46:00 -
[15]
The simple answer to both questions is that it's easier to program things that way.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
|
Bimjo
Caldari
Domination.
Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 12:46:00 -
[16]
also how a ship turns in space, in eve the way a ship turns seems very "Atmospheric" , like a curve, in our atmosphere,which i doubt is the best way of doing it in a near vacuum,even with dozen's of thrusters all over the ship
|
Bimjo
Caldari
Domination.
Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 12:52:00 -
[17]
a ship coming out of cloak makes a noise that you hear in your ship
going through planets and objects when you warp
lag(there isn't any in RL)
how ships(in space view,not overview) suddenly disappear when you leave a grid,instead of just getting fainter and fainter
hybrid ammo hitting instantaneously,no matter the distance
missiles,when a missile is on the way to a target,and the target is destroyed before missile gets to it,the missile veers off sideways
no windows or external cameras in stations
|
Furb Killer
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 12:54:00 -
[18]
They could change at every downtime the positions of all orbital stuff. Would be quite some processor cycles probably and reprogramming (assuming now pos locations are absolute, they need to be made relative to the planets position). And when they are finally done with that wrangler would see a group of very angry players who do exploration.
|
Baal Aristaeus
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 13:05:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Bimjo
another physics item that is not like in RL for you to note :
Inertia.
a small ship can bump a titan,where as if in real life a BS hit a titan the titan should only be nudged ever so slightly and not spun out of a pos's forcefield
lol! way to hint at what happened xD
Baal Aristaeus eats horses.. |
Baal Aristaeus
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 13:08:00 -
[20]
I have included the sound in EVE in my report :P
personally I don't see the point of planets actually orbiting the sun etc.. but hey, some people might!
/BAal
Baal Aristaeus eats horses.. |
|
|
Battlecheese
Caldari
Black Knight Buccaneers
Strength in Numbers.
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 13:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: IR Scoutar
2) every entity must be constantly updated if you want a x y z reference (wich is easyest and most efficient to work with) wich eats allot of cpu cycles and only gets worse the more entitys there are
aditionaly its just game fun breaking because your x y z reference bookmarks are x y z points in space not x y z points on an orbit thats constantly changing so bookmarks would be pointless
wich is again game breaking
Actually, you might be surprised to find out how fast a computer could recalculate a few thousand solar systems.
Updateing planet/moon/pos/stargate positions slightly every downtime would have been a groovy way for them to fix the bookmark problem, rather than warp20.
|
Asestorian
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 13:14:00 -
[22]
The sound of EVE is explained by the capsule creating sound for you, to help you be aware of what's going on (not that anyone really uses that of course), rather than there being actual sound in space, by the way
---
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Destiny Balls
|
|
CCP RyanD
Caldari
C C P
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 13:21:00 -
[23]
The answer to both of your questions is "game design choices". By limiting the amount of movement and the speed of movement we are able to control the amount of data that has to transit between clients and the server, which is one of the architectural reasons EVE can support 10x larger fleet fights than all the other MMOs. The tradeoff is less realism. This was deemed an acceptable tradeoff early in EVE's design and it remains acceptable today.
RyanD
|
|
The Tzar
Malicious Intentions
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 13:29:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Baal Aristaeus
Hmm, 60km/s? that's insane... Imagine if there were no speed limit.. Everyone would accelerate till we were almost at light speed, trying to fight.. It would be impossible :P
Unless you were amarr of course...
__________________________________________
'Light travels faster than sound.
This is why some people appear intelligent
until they speak'
__________________________________________ |
|
CCP Lingorm
C C P
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 13:35:00 -
[25]
On the topic of EVE's "Physics Engine", it is not a Newtonian Physics Engine, it is actually based on a Fluid Dynamics Engine, assuming that Space has some substance to it and thus if you turn of the Engine you will slowdown form the friction of the 'stuff'.
RyanD has given you the Reasons this was chosen (Game Design and Network Communications). But if you look at EVE's physics from a Fluid Dynamics formula you will find that it is a lot more accurate (it is actually a nifty bit of coding to get it right).
CCP Lingorm
CCP Quality Assurance
QA Engineering Team Leader
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Eve is to WoW as Wow is to an 8 player game of Unreal Tournament.
|
|
Baal Aristaeus
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 13:38:00 -
[26]
Ouuh? A dev!
Appriciate you all taking the time to help me out with this, ya'll has been great!
PS: I'm adding you to my Appendix, RyanD! 
Baal Aristaeus eats horses.. |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 13:46:00 -
[27]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm
On the topic of EVE's "Physics Engine", it is not a Newtonian Physics Engine, it is actually based on a Fluid Dynamics Engine, assuming that Space has some substance to it and thus if you turn of the Engine you will slowdown form the friction of the 'stuff'.
RyanD has given you the Reasons this was chosen (Game Design and Network Communications). But if you look at EVE's physics from a Fluid Dynamics formula you will find that it is a lot more accurate (it is actually a nifty bit of coding to get it right).
Easier to market the game too, with catchy phrases like "Come on in, the water's fine!"
...
*runs*
|
Baal Aristaeus
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 13:51:00 -
[28]
HAHA! That was ace, man! :D
Baal Aristaeus eats horses.. |
Irulan S'Dijana
Amarr
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 13:52:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: CCP Lingorm
On the topic of EVE's "Physics Engine", it is not a Newtonian Physics Engine, it is actually based on a Fluid Dynamics Engine, assuming that Space has some substance to it and thus if you turn of the Engine you will slowdown form the friction of the 'stuff'.
RyanD has given you the Reasons this was chosen (Game Design and Network Communications). But if you look at EVE's physics from a Fluid Dynamics formula you will find that it is a lot more accurate (it is actually a nifty bit of coding to get it right).
Easier to market the game too, with catchy phrases like "Come on in, the water's fine!"
...
*runs*
Your licence to post is hereby revoked.
|
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 13:53:00 -
[30]
You mean to say my internet spaceships are really internet submarines?!
Aww 
_____________________
The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |