| Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Renee Alexis
Luminous Love Brewery
   |
Posted - 2008.11.09 19:21:00 -
[31]
Can't you conspiracy theorists discuss anything new? It is almost 2009, y'know.
_____________________________________
|
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.11.09 19:32:00 -
[32]
Not a plane crash
Not another plane crash
I also find it rather..amusing how every wiki article about the 9/11 attacks hurries to stress how 'dozens' of people witnessed everything but seldom ever link or quote any.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart |
Arianhod
|
Posted - 2008.11.09 20:57:00 -
[33]
At this point in time, what would realy be done differently if 9/11 was a conspiracy from the beggining?
If we didn't go the the moon I imagine the only realy different thing would be the results of some highly embarresing and silly stunts to do with bets...
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
|
Joseph 9
Dead Flesh Corp
Rigor Mortis Mortalis
|
Posted - 2008.11.09 22:54:00 -
[34]
Sudden urge to punch self in face...
|
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.11.09 22:56:00 -
[35]
 Originally by: Joseph 9
Sudden urge to punch self in face...
I like the guy, he's really funny, but it has nothing to do with the points raised above. Anyway, let it pass, history will judge it eventually.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart |
Joseph 9
Dead Flesh Corp
Rigor Mortis Mortalis
|
Posted - 2008.11.09 23:00:00 -
[36]
I'll be honest mate, I haven't actually read anymore than the first topic, and I didn't actually click the links, so it is possible, just, in some weird screwed up universe where nothing whatsoever makes sense, that 9-11 really was some sort of evil conspiracy, but I just can't see it. Beyond the vast coverup required and the huge number of people who would have to stay silent, there's the motivation. What did 9-11 achieve... and for who..
I'll never make a good troll, I'm too polite. 
|
bullnard
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 02:01:00 -
[37]
Quote:
As for the 9/11 deal, I would like to see you go to one of those families that lost a loved one in those aircraft and tell them this was all a lie, what you are saying here is incredibly hurtfull to that group of people
Well said goodby4u
bullnard,
Recruiter/Director
Freelancing corp. CIC
|
Thorliaron
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 03:47:00 -
[38]
David icke is a nutjob who refuses to listen to anyone who does not share the same crackpot views as him.
I saw a intresting programme about people who tend to believe in things like this and they are often a social outcast, have trust issues or general distrust in the govenment.
Someone shoot him please.
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 04:56:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Sokratesz
There is just one bit that I cannot stomach however, and that is the plane with a very inexperienced pilot that made an almost 360 degree sharp turn to hit the empty side of the pentagon and vaporized on impact.
You are correct about "inexperienced", but not in the way that you think. The sharp 360* turn is proof of poor piloting skills. An experienced pilot would have flown straight in on autopilot (set from hundreds of miles away), making only slight minor corrections in the last few seconds.
Quote:
Lastly, if it did indeed hit the building, where did it go. Take a look at photos of real plane crashes and you'll find paper, luggage and seats all over the place. Also, the gas turbines are almost always clearly visible and hardly damaged. None of that at the pentagon, so, where's the plane? Same for the one that crashed. (see United 93)
If a picture is worth a thousand words, how priceless must a video be?
Where's the plane?
The evidence fits the official explanation perfectly: the wings and tail are poorly shaped for penetrating a wall, and smashed to small bits on impact and then burned (note that the fuel tanks are in the wings). The main body and engines did have the mass/shape to penetrate, and ended up inside the building and out of sight. And note that parts of the plane were found, including what looks like parts of the engines.
Also note that you're talking about a very different kind of crash. There's a major difference in forces between a shallow dive into the ground and crashing straight into a vertical wall.
Of course your whole point of "everything else is nonsense, but the pentagon jet" just doesn't work at all. I don't know if you're trying to appear "reasonable" by only attacking a single point, or if you're honestly wrong, but either way:
Where did the not-a-plane weapon that hit the pentagon come from? Does the US government keep bombs/missiles/whatever standing by 24/7/365, just in case they need to increase the effects of a terrorist attack? If the other three planes were hijacked as the "official" story says, the government could not have known to have the pentagon weapon ready.
If the government knew about the other three attacks (but didn't plan them), why bother hitting the pentagon? The New York attacks alone would have done the job, so why risk a dangerous conspiracy to add a fourth, far less destructive attack?
If the government was behind it all, why use three planes and a something-not-a-plane? Why complicate things with an additional weapon, when simply adding another plane will do the job just fine?
-----------
Blaster sig removed for now, pending those "changes we've been working on all day". CCP, don't screw this up.
|
Tau Dades
Caldari
Electrostatik
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 05:19:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
You are correct about "inexperienced", but not in the way that you think. The sharp 360* turn is proof of poor piloting skills. An experienced pilot would have flown straight in on autopilot (set from hundreds of miles away), making only slight minor corrections in the last few seconds.
ah yes, the autopilot feature few of us ever hear about.
"terrorist suicide into building"
|
Davina Braben
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 05:30:00 -
[41]
Anyone who seriously thinks 911 was a covert demolitions job by SECRAT US GOVERNMENT AGENTS needs to spend far less time indoors with that tinfoil hat on.
This article makes a pretty compelling case:
http://www.cracked.com/article_15740_was-911-inside-job.html
The world just doesn't work like that.
Governments are **** at keeping secrets. Really mind bendingly bad. You would not believe how stupid people are with classified data. It is one of the great wonders of the age that high ranking officials from any organisation are still allowed laptops.
Gulf War 1 had to be postponed because a high ranking air force officer left his laptop in a cab with ALL OF THE ALLIED INVASION PLANS in it.
Then there's nosey reporters and guilty consciences to contend with.
The number and type of people involved in such a coverup and the logistics thereof would render it totally laughably impractical too.
Conspiracy theories rely on a totally warped outlook on human nature and behaviour. I know to the TFH brigade hunched up in front of their PCs freaking out about chemtrails and black helicopters hundreds or thousands of people conspiring for bizzare political reasons to commit atrocities against their own country and then keep it quiet may seem plausible but back in the real world human beings just aren't wired like that.
It's unclear what people think these hypothetical conspirators stood to gain. It's actually not that hard to slip one by people these days. Very few people know or care.
If it was funny I'd also be amused that people have such a hard time with the notion that a group who tried to blow up the WTC once would then try again.
Astonishingly, in some parts of the world some western countries are as popular as dog **** surprise.
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 05:48:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 10/11/2008 05:49:30
Originally by: Tau Dades
ah yes, the autopilot feature few of us ever hear about.
"terrorist suicide into building"
Err, I'm not sure what you're saying here. All modern airliners are flown almost entirely by the autopilot, from shortly after takeoff until shortly before landing (sometimes including landing, but you need special radio equipment on the airport in addition to the autopilot itself). The pilot's job for most of the flight is to monitor the autopilot and make sure it's doing what it's supposed to.
Even the tiny single-engine Cessna 172 I fly has an autopilot that would probably be capable of getting from any arbitrary location to within a few seconds of impact, lined up with the target and in a full-power dive. Obviously I haven't tried it to be sure, but I know it can fly the plane from any arbitrary location to lined up with a runway of my choice, at 500' or less, using only GPS. From that point, it's a very small difference between landing the plane and crashing the plane.
It's kind of boring though, at $150/hour it seems kind of silly to just sit there doing nothing while a computer has all the fun, but it's definitely capable of doing all of that.
-----------
Blaster sig removed for now, pending those "changes we've been working on all day". CCP, don't screw this up.
|
Tau Dades
Caldari
Electrostatik
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 06:20:00 -
[43]
GPS was not as ubiquitous in 2001 as it is now.
I am just merely disputing your claim that a pilot could set the autopilot from hundreds of miles away and get close to the pentagon. An airport, yes, the Pentagon? I doubt it.
|
Gojyu
Ever Flow
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 06:43:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Tau Dades
GPS was not as ubiquitous in 2001 as it is now.
I am just merely disputing your claim that a pilot could set the autopilot from hundreds of miles away and get close to the pentagon. An airport, yes, the Pentagon? I doubt it.
You'd be completely incorrect. Gps was quite common back in the day, in fact, the military removed its automatically induced error in gps systems in 2000 due to overwhelming civilian demand. The day of the september 11 attacks a $200 unit from your local radioshack would have been capable of pinpointing the pentagon to around 10-15 metres, let alone the advanced navigation systems they have on international aircraft now
|
Tau Dades
Caldari
Electrostatik
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 06:51:00 -
[45]
quite common, perhaps, but near as common as it is today. especially in aircraft.
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 06:55:00 -
[46]
Not only that, but even without GPS, the autopilot could still do it. Maybe not from hundreds of miles out, but you could easily line up a VOR approach on the pentagon that would get you very close. Using the VOR at Reagan National, about two miles from the pentagon, the error would be less than 500', more than close enough to hit the building with only very very slight corrections. In fact, simply setting the autopilot to fly the approach into runway 15 would line it up correctly, all you'd have to do is just cut the autopilot and dive at the last second.
-----------
Blaster sig removed for now, pending those "changes we've been working on all day". CCP, don't screw this up.
|
Gojyu
Ever Flow
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 06:58:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Tau Dades
quite common, perhaps, but near as common as it is today. especially in aircraft.
Because the last people who would make use of a cheap consumer level technology are multi billion dollar industries dedicated to accurate navigation over large distances right? You can repeat the argument as much as you want, just like I can say "In the 1980's, matches hadn't really caught on, so chefs would pray to thor to strike their stoves with lightning in order to start fires". Doesn't mean both of them aren't the most hilariously misinformed arguments I've heard all day
|
Tau Dades
Caldari
Electrostatik
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 07:25:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Tau Dades on 10/11/2008 07:28:31
Originally by: Gojyu
Because the last people who would make use of a cheap consumer level technology are multi billion dollar industries dedicated to accurate navigation over large distances right?
pretty much, which is why the VOR is the primary navaid in the US. if you are ever in an airliner where the primary navigation system is "cheap consumer level tech" then you, sir, are in a world of ****.
|
ramzahn
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 07:29:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Polkageist
or maybe former german defenseminister Andreas Von Bnlow appear in "911: false flag" for fun.
Now a thing that I always found passing strange, is the fact that the German defense minister at the time of the 9/11 attacks, Rudolf Scharping, was in dire straights concerning his preliminarily disclosure of move orders of German troops, stationed at the time in former Yugoslavia.
He was on the brink of being outrightly dismissed. I was waiting for it, and then along came 9/11 and everyone had other problems, including the press.
Just something that always bugged me...
|
ramzahn
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 07:38:00 -
[50]
Just question to everyone participating here.
What possible connection could there be between the Punjabi Revolt and 9/11.
Please don't flame, but rather see it as a free association game. (I'm not joking but asking in earnest)
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 07:43:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Tau Dades
pretty much, which is why the VOR is the primary navaid in the US. if you are ever in an airliner where the primary navigation system is "cheap consumer level tech" then you, sir, are in a world of ****.
And guess what: VORs would work just fine for everything I said earlier. You'd have to set a sequence of VOR radials into the autopilot, but the end result is the same: you set the autopilot from hundreds of miles away, and only touch the controls for slight corrections at the very end. The only difference is GPS makes it easier, and you can line up on the target from any arbitrary distance, instead of 50-100 miles.
I'll say it again: wild last-second turns are a sign of inexperienced pilots, not amazing skill.
-----------
Blaster sig removed for now, pending those "changes we've been working on all day". CCP, don't screw this up.
|
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 08:36:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 10/11/2008 08:39:01
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
If a picture is worth a thousand words, how priceless must a video be?
Where's the plane?
That is very interesting but they don't show the aftermath of the impact, and the passenger liner was of a wholly different scale
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Also note that you're talking about a very different kind of crash. There's a major difference in forces between a shallow dive into the ground and crashing straight into a vertical wall.
Undeniably true, but are you saying that all the stuff inside the plane vaporized, too?
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Of course your whole point of "everything else is nonsense, but the pentagon jet" just doesn't work at all. I don't know if you're trying to appear "reasonable" by only attacking a single point, or if you're honestly wrong, but either way:
Where did the not-a-plane weapon that hit the pentagon come from? Does the US government keep bombs/missiles/whatever standing by 24/7/365, just in case they need to increase the effects of a terrorist attack? If the other three planes were hijacked as the "official" story says, the government could not have known to have the pentagon weapon ready.
If the government knew about the other three attacks (but didn't plan them), why bother hitting the pentagon? The New York attacks alone would have done the job, so why risk a dangerous conspiracy to add a fourth, far less destructive attack?
If the government was behind it all, why use three planes and a something-not-a-plane? Why complicate things with an additional weapon, when simply adding another plane will do the job just fine?
When faced with something strange that is very complicated I find it easier to start at smaller bits and work your way towards the whole. If Physics ever comes up with a great unified theory it'll probably not be invented as-is but be a compilation of many smaller ones.
I've read the 9/11 commission report and found it generally lacking in actually explaining things. I saw the second plane hit the tower, live, on TV, and i do think you people are going way too easy about dismissing everyone who thinks differently as a conspiracy theorist. Insert religion related metaphor here, but I hope you can understand my point.
Not gonna pursue this any further, I do not know what happened exactly but some bits appear fishy. History will have to judge the US for what happened there and I really hope that mr. Obama can contribute towards that.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |