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khazak mokl
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Posted - 2008.11.13 10:23:00 -
[1]
Hey what are peoples experiences with the grouping feature?
On some missions or complexs with frigs i usually target as many frigs as i can at range and then when they lock 2 or 3 of my tachs activate and 1 volly them.
If i have 8 guns fitted i usually therefore wipe out 3 or 4 in 1 activation while i keep targeting more as i go.
Now with the grouping they all activate on 1 frig which is way overkill.
Also i have noticed i am not getting wrecking shots anymore.
So my question is are each of the shots still calculated seperately but shown jointly or are they done just once and if u hit they all hit and if u miss they all miss?
I think the idea of grouping is a great one as it takes a lot less time to change crystals ect but it woud be cool if you could swap between the grouping mode and seperate mode with 1 click.
any1 else have good experiences /bad experiences?
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Turqoise
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Posted - 2008.11.13 10:25:00 -
[2]
i kinda like but but for mission might better make a couple of smaller groups? may 2 of 4 or 4 of 2. no idea about the wrecing stuff never pay entetion to that.
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Thercon Jair
Minmatar
InQuest Ascension
Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.11.13 10:28:00 -
[3]
From what CCP said the grouping makes it 1 activation call instead of 8, thereby reducing network load, but the shots are still being calculated separately, yet you get again just 1 message back, which is the combined damage your weapons dealt.
And, as they said, it's not mandatory to use it, it's just a tool that you can chose to use or not. And yes, I don't like this "1 activation pops one frigate" in missions, while I can pop a few with one gun volley. One of the circumstances where I wouldn't be using it.
Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar! |
Lethos Aranis
THE BLACK RAGE
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.11.13 10:31:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Lethos Aranis on 13/11/2008 10:31:40
It's optional and reduces server load. Plus you can set it up any way you want. Seems pretty win/win to me [;)]
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 10:32:00 -
[5]
Problems arise only if you load crystals with different damage, if one crystal expires, the entire lot will become useless until you load a fresh one.
That said, for the other gunships and launchers it's extremely nice.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart |
Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2008.11.13 10:32:00 -
[6]
I find it extremly usful, but yes your ammo consumption does increase overall a fair bit if you use grouped weapons to kill everything all the time.
Ive now split my guns into 2 or three groups, on the apoc a group of 4 and two groups of two. depending on what im ingauging at the time i will use say the two smaller groups for frigs and cruisers and the group of 4 on bcs and bs, focus firing on anything that lasts a few vollys 
6.6k+ hit with group of 8 artys/tachs is fun fun fun tho :0
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Lethos Aranis
THE BLACK RAGE
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.11.13 10:33:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Sokratesz
Problems arise only if you load crystals with different damage, if one crystal expires, the entire lot will become useless until you load a fresh one.
That said, for the other gunships and launchers it's extremely nice.
Can you even group with different ammo? I could have sworn I tried to group launchers with different missile types and it wouldn't let me.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 10:34:00 -
[8]
No you cant.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart |
Lethos Aranis
THE BLACK RAGE
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.11.13 10:36:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sokratesz
No you cant.
Then why did you say that problems arise if you fit crystals with different damage? Aren't they considered different ammo types then?
I don't actually know anything about lasers so bare with me 
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 10:37:00 -
[10]
No I mean faction/T2 crystals that decay over time at random and thus can have different damage (or hp left if you want)
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart |
Lethos Aranis
THE BLACK RAGE
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.11.13 10:38:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Lethos Aranis on 13/11/2008 10:38:28
Oh right. Like I said, my knowledge of crystals is limited Handy to know though [;)]
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Kerdrak
3B Legio IX
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.13 11:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Problems arise only if you load crystals with different damage, if one crystal expires, the entire lot will become useless until you load a fresh one.
That said, for the other gunships and launchers it's extremely nice.
Are you really sure of this? because it sounds very very bad...
________________________________________
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Warscythe Prime
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.11.13 11:38:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lethos Aranis
Edited by: Lethos Aranis on 13/11/2008 10:38:28
Oh right. Like I said, my knowledge of crystals is limited Handy to know though [;)]
you have to unload all charges to be able to group them. If you want to then make 2 groups of 4 and have different charges in those 2 groups then you can do that.
It does not matter if you use T2 or t1 as long as the group you are loading has all the same type e.g. load Group 1 with all Multifreqs.
Hope that helps 
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 11:47:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kerdrak
Originally by: Sokratesz
Problems arise only if you load crystals with different damage, if one crystal expires, the entire lot will become useless until you load a fresh one.
That said, for the other gunships and launchers it's extremely nice.
Are you really sure of this? because it sounds very very bad...
Yes, it was in the fanfest presentation. Upside is that if you have fresh crystals and load them into a group, they all receive equal damage so no risk of one running out earlier than the others then.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart |
Niko Succorso
Freeform Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.13 12:05:00 -
[15]
I find weapon grouping to be most useful for PVP. It makes activation simpler and faster, and has the lovely "benefit" of slamming the target with all the damage at once, rather than having it spread over those one or two seconds as the guns stutter to life. I call it a "benefit" rather than claiming it outright as I'm not sure it makes any real practical difference, but psychologically, I would venture that it's more demoralising for the target to see his status indicators show BANG... BANG... BANG... on the shields rather than have them slowly bleed away.
For PVE, I doubt I'll be using weapon grouping too much. I'd rather have my guns fire as they bear. Having weapons hot while locking up a cloud of incoming frigates is a good way to reduce the numbers a bit. If grouping fires everything simultaneously, I'm going to be spraying shots through a ship that's no longer there, and then waiting for the guns to recycle.
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Davina Braben
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Posted - 2008.11.13 12:06:00 -
[16]
Why not just make 2 groups?
You're still saving a bunch of keypresses and mouseclicks but you have the option then of spreading the damage out.
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bldyannoyed
Killed In Action
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Posted - 2008.11.13 12:08:00 -
[17]
It's done odd things to heat mechanics too.
Anyone who's used it will know that if you overload all your guns, they don't take damage at anything like the same rate. Always seems to me that the closer to the middle of the rack the gun is, the faster it burns out.
With a group of weapons this isn't the case, they all take heat damage at the same speed. What I'm wondering is if that results in a longer average time before total burn out or not. Will the whole group offline at the same time as the first gun would have in an ungrouped rack, or does it average out the failure rate and kill your group somewhere between when the first and last would have failed? Or will the whole group survive untill the last one would have died?
Am I even making any sense?
Who knows.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 12:17:00 -
[18]
It should decrease heat effects too, according to the fanfest presentation.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart |
SturmTurm
Amarr
Armored Fist
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Posted - 2008.11.13 13:37:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Yes, it was in the fanfest presentation. Upside is that if you have fresh crystals and load them into a group, they all receive equal damage so no risk of one running out earlier than the others then.
Well isn¦t that only the case for faction x-stals as T2¦s are degraded by chance NOT by numbers of pew pew?
Regards
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Thernandier
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Posted - 2008.11.13 13:43:00 -
[20]
For PVE, i have my missile launchers set in 2 groups so I still can hit multiple small targets at the same time, but have less micromanagement to do.
The new activation timer is also quite useful in my opinion, especially for the slower modules. Haven't tried yet but I think it will make EWAR a lot easier to manage...
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 13:47:00 -
[21]
Yeah the activation timer is something that received little attention but is massively useful, especially for things like speed mods and web/scram.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart |
Rivqua
Caldari
Omega Wing
R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 13:52:00 -
[22]
Originally by: SturmTurm
Quote:
Yes, it was in the fanfest presentation. Upside is that if you have fresh crystals and load them into a group, they all receive equal damage so no risk of one running out earlier than the others then.
Well isn¦t that only the case for faction x-stals as T2¦s are degraded by chance NOT by numbers of pew pew?
Regards
They both degrade in the same way, ie, chance based, but now, it averages the dmg over the stack, so you won't have a issue where one fails before the others, aslong as you start with a fresh stack. Ie, its only a problem now before people get used to it.
/Riv
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Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
TRUST Coalition
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Posted - 2008.11.13 13:58:00 -
[23]
I've loving the grouping feature in general (good for clearing up shortcut key space, great for changing crystals quickly to adapt to range differences) but there's another situation where I wouldn't want to use it.
Pootling about with a Vengeance again for the first time in ages, I like to have each launcher loaded with a different type of ammo going into a fight so I can see what my enemy's weakest resist is and switch to that if he has a reasonable tank. Of course, there's no way to do this and keep the weapon grouping at the moment, so it's back to good old F1-F4 for situations like this.
For other situations where you do want to treat all your weapons as one megaweapon, it's very useful.
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SturmTurm
Amarr
Armored Fist
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Posted - 2008.11.13 14:11:00 -
[24]
Well thanks for clearing that up. *writes note myself to change all x-stals with new ones*. The issue is ofcourse with the T2¦s as the faction ones got a lot of pew pew in them. T2¦s burns out (too?)often and always under the worst circumstances off course.
Regards
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Captain Ziltoid
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:54:00 -
[25]
grouping on my apoc has eight groups with one turret each
am I doing it right?
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Yakov Draken
Minmatar
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2008.11.13 23:01:00 -
[26]
Grouping is cool it is just that I'm getting such horrendous lag in 3-4v6-8 fights that I can't activate or target anything reliably and it is easier to screw up and shoot a squad mate with all my guns rather than just one or two like I used to. 
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Sensor Boosting
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Posted - 2008.11.13 23:34:00 -
[27]
it seems grouped weapons cause lag tbh, everytime i group weapons and jump thru a gate, i lag to crap, when i ungroup them and jump, im fine
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Elurilmar
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Posted - 2008.11.13 23:39:00 -
[28]
The only tactical problem that comes with grouped weapons, is that if you fire a group, and it takes less than the max number of guns to kill a ship, you just wasted the extra cap/ammo, as it fires all of the guns regardless.
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