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OhNoNotAgain	Posted - 2008.11.13 10:40:00 - [1] With the recent balances to missiles, the requirement is for those who fly many Caldari ships to adapt. So, lets look at the Drake. Clearly with the additon of afterburners and target painters to the "absolutely must have" pvp list of webs and sensor booster, there are not enough midslots left for any shape of shield tank. Obviously, that only leaves an armour tank. We're stuck with missiles on the Drake as there aren't enough gun slots to make them viable. Is it possible to give the Drake what it needs to become an effective pvp ship under Qantum Rise? How do we make the Drake the same as a hurricane or harbinger, without actually changing ships? With only four lowslots, I guess we'd need to use midslot armor mods... Any ideas on a workable fitout?
Nexus Kinnon Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.11.13 10:45:00 - [2] um you don't need a sensor booster? just take a typical HAM drake setup, switch out the web for a target painter and pack ECM drones so you can **** off tacklers and you should be okay. It's not like any larger class ships can really take on smaller classes THAT effectively anymore.
OhNoNotAgain	Posted - 2008.11.13 10:48:00 - [3] Edited by: OhNoNotAgain on 13/11/2008 10:52:32 Edited by: OhNoNotAgain on 13/11/2008 10:51:19 Fixed. yeah, that was a bad edit. I meant to say scram. Well the cookie-cutter HAM drake - with the web nerf and missile nerfs - also needs significant help: moreso because of the high HAM fitting requirements. HAMS also now need web and painter to make them effective against standard cruisers. So their midslots - and CPU - are under significant pressure. Drones won't help much. It's five lights... and no drone bay capacity to allow a variety of types (it'd be some help to be able to carry a set of target painting lights and web lights) I dunno if armor and HAMS on drakes will mix. So may be forced to go Heavies.
Tashiell Gao Caldari Heretic Army Heretic Nation	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:01:00 - [4] did CCP change the fitting requirements of heavies and hams?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? if not, heavies takes more cpu Tashiell Gao, Minmatar Inside.
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:02:00 - [5] Its quite possible to make a PvP HAM drake work. Tackle (7.5km scram) Your (1st Web) Target (2nd Web, your gangmates web, w/e) *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:28:00 - [6] Clueless. Rage HAMs still do full damage to a webbed BC. CN HAMs still do full damage to a webbed cruiser. Rage damage got boosted. It's easier to keep out of optimal of AC- and blaster-boats.
OhNoNotAgain	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:33:00 - [7] Edited by: OhNoNotAgain on 13/11/2008 11:34:53 But... to be useful against small stuff you now need that target painter. Which is mid-slot. Which kills tank. Which means examine possibilities of armor tank, or don't fit painter, making the drake an even more sub-par ship than it already was in gang, or change race. QED
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:38:00 - [8] Edited by: Gypsio III on 13/11/2008 11:39:10 Stop being clueless. You do not need a painter. Learn game mechanics, then apply to realistic in-game situations. If you can keep anything small tackled, you will kill it easily. If you cannot keep it tackled, then that is a function of the new tackle mechanics, not missiles. And is a problem shared by, if not more pronounced on, other BCs.
Dikanal	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:40:00 - [9] Originally by: OhNoNotAgain Edited by: OhNoNotAgain on 13/11/2008 11:34:53 But... to be useful against small stuff you now need that target painter. Which is mid-slot. Which kills tank. Which means examine possibilities of armor tank, or don't fit painter, making the drake an even more sub-par ship than it already was in gang, or change race. QED With an armour tank you lose the ability to fit BCUs making it even more sub par than your illusionary sub par assumptions, also the Drake has a drone bay and you can fit TP drones in there.
OhNoNotAgain	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:41:00 - [10] Edited by: OhNoNotAgain on 13/11/2008 11:43:35 erm... I don't gatecamp for noob ships. In real pvp, small stuff can usually out-fly a drake. If they get into web range of a drake, they're either seriously lagged or seriously stupid. So, to do damage in the qantum rise environment you need more than the old setup. And the comparison to other BC ships is valid to this debate. Afterall, they don't all need midslots for their tanks

Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:45:00 - [11] Originally by: OhNoNotAgain erm...In real pvp, small stuff can usually out-fly a drake. If they get into web range of a drake, they're either seriously lagged or seriously stupid. So, to do damage in the qantum rise environment you need more than the old setup. Nonsense. Increased survivability of small stuff against larger ships is an effect common to all ships, not just Drake and missiles. Old mechanics meant that for "small stuff" to avoid missile damage all that you need to do was hit MWD. Try that now, and see how a 500% self-painter works.
OhNoNotAgain	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:53:00 - [12] Only they don't use MWD much anymore. It's AB. So the new speed-tanking mechanic kicks in. And that hurts even HAM setups. This is what I'm seeking to counter, as there are no explosion velicity mods to fit. The only option is to counter-balance the speed tank through increasing their sig radius - thus the painter. The painter has greater range than web so can be applied if you're in tackle range or not. But you still need the web to try and keep targets within scram range - as well as the reduction in speed tank. But the point raised about the tradeoff of the BCU damage v gain from a painter under an armor tank is valid. It can be somewhat countered by rig use... but I doubt enough. Guess I'll wait for EFT.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:04:00 - [13] A webbed ABing Hurricane will still take full damage from Rage HAMs. A webbed ABing Thorax at full speed will about 75% damage from CN HAMs. It really isn't an issue.
kill0rbunny Caldari Jagdkommando RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:38:00 - [14] Edited by: kill0rbunny on 13/11/2008 14:43:57 I killed an mwding ceptor with tech I scourge heavy missiles on the testserver. Use precisions and drones if it doesn't mwd. Apart from never having flewn a drake since I can fly cerb, the fitting wouldn't change at all, because BCs are crap for sig tanking anyway. Armor tanking drakes are kind of the most stupid idea that one can have, because they can fit a bs sized shield buffer with their resistance bonus and you simply don't need to sigtank on that ship. Also, MWD is still mandatory on slow bricks like the drake, ab simply doesn't do the job. Go places. Kill people.
Shadow's Caress	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:46:00 - [15] I usually suggest putting a heavy shield tank on the drake. Since the patch though, mid slots have become quite valuable and the drake has an abundance of them. With the new missile formula, speed can be overcome by a big sig radius, so a HAM drake w/ target painters can be quite nasty. In cases like these, I can understand seeing an armor tanked HAM drake.
Abduul Azeez Caldari Children Of Allah	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:59:00 - [16] Armor tanked drake? Blasphemy! Now get out. You are a disgrace to drake pilots. And as the others said, TP is unnecessary for drake and a minimum 2 BCS are mandatory for any drake to do moderate damage. Also, that 5% bonus per level to shield resistance is pure beauty when at BC 5. You essentially save one midslot right there. Sorry, but I get the impression you have never flown a drake outside of a lvl 3 mission. So basically, one of the sillier ideas I've seen post-patch. Back to EFT for you.
kill0rbunny Caldari Jagdkommando RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.13 15:09:00 - [17] Edited by: kill0rbunny on 13/11/2008 15:09:08 Originally by: Shadow's Caress Since the patch though, mid slots have become quite valuable and the drake has an abundance of them. No it doesn't. For tackling slow stuff you need a mwd and a disruptor. You will never tackle fast stuff with your drake anyway. That means you have to pick your targets or interact with other eve players to form a gang, Surprise surprise, just like any other ship. Go places. Kill people.


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