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I want to know something from people who taunt people complaining

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Canis Trucido	Posted - 2008.11.14 02:32:00 - [1] when did it become not allowed, or frowned upon, to be discontent with changes in this game? Is everyone so mindlessly devouted to the game they refuse to even awknowledge that their game might have become less fun or in some other way of lower quality? It is somehow beyond the realm of possiblity that the changes were in poor taste and not well thought out? I don't get it. Last time I checked, complaints,cristicism, and just flat out whining was a very valid and very useful form of feedback. If you feel your position is so weak(that the game is flawless/great/unchanged/changed for the better/etc.) that the only reply to someone attacking it is to taunt them or somehow make an attack on their charecter, doesn't that just show how valid the other persons point is? I was just wondering.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.11.14 02:33:00 - [2] Pot meet Kettle. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.11.14 02:33:00 - [3] You don't have to respect the other side of a so-called debate if the content being presented by that side is a load of crap. The threads where people make sound arguments attract people willing to make sound arguments to the contrary, while threads that offer unfounded crap attract derision.
Allen Ramses Caldari Typo Corp	Posted - 2008.11.14 02:37:00 - [4] Originally by: Dirk Magnum The threads where people make sound arguments attract people willing to make sound arguments to the contrary You're new here, aren't you? ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless. Made a reality by speed and missile nerf.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.11.14 02:39:00 - [5] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 14/11/2008 02:40:23 Originally by: Allen Ramses Originally by: Dirk Magnum The threads where people make sound arguments attract people willing to make sound arguments to the contrary You're new here, aren't you? Quite the opposite. I've been here long enough to have actually seen one or two threads which spawned productive discourse based on sound reasoning from people with varying opinions. I swear they happen from time to time
Kransthow The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.14 02:45:00 - [6] Originally by: Dirk Magnum I've been here long enough to have actually seen one or two threads which spawned productive discourse '04 player spotted
Lady Karma	Posted - 2008.11.14 02:49:00 - [7] Originally by: Canis Trucido when did it become not allowed, or frowned upon, to be discontent with changes in this game? Something to do with changes are fine as long as they don't effect me. Plenty of people are willing to laugh and say adapt or die, just as long as they don't have to change the way they play. Then when they come in their hundreds to the forums and start crying, it is natural for others to point out their hypocrisy. And , no whining is not a valid form of feedback. Joining the test server and filling in countless bug reports and raising obvious flaws with the suggested changes is valid feedback. However, CCP chose to ignore that.
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.11.14 02:51:00 - [8] Originally by: Canis Trucido when did it become not allowed, or frowned upon, to be discontent with changes in this game? Never. However, intelligent dissent and discussion is a rare thing around here. Instead, we just get hundreds of spammed "OMGWTF CCP YOU BROKE MAH GAME I QUIT!"
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.11.14 03:04:00 - [9] There's a difference between ignorant whining and communicating. Apart from that a lot of people are incapable to see things from a neutral POV but rather go the "I should be invincible compared to others, why has that changed" route.
Plim Gallente Oursulaert Technology Institute	Posted - 2008.11.14 03:11:00 - [10] Originally by: Canis Trucido when did it become not allowed, or frowned upon, to be discontent with changes in this game? Is everyone so mindlessly devouted to the game they refuse to even awknowledge that their game might have become less fun or in some other way of lower quality? It is somehow beyond the realm of possiblity that the changes were in poor taste and not well thought out? I don't get it. Last time I checked, complaints,cristicism, and just flat out whining was a very valid and very useful form of feedback. If you feel your position is so weak(that the game is flawless/great/unchanged/changed for the better/etc.) that the only reply to someone attacking it is to taunt them or somehow make an attack on their charecter, doesn't that just show how valid the other persons point is? I was just wondering. The psychology behind this is in my opinion, quite transparent. By stating that they are impervious to changes in the game mechanics, an individual feels elevated to a position of social superiority and when this is a communal activity, they feel validated by the community and therefore safe. I used to read a weight lifting forum which had a similar phenomenon, one person would say something ignorant, and it would be followed by endless droves of people falling over each other to talk about how they know better, and to mock them endlessly. I am not implying that there are no cases where people respond to CCP's decisions irrationally (you don't have to look far), but it does seem like the reflexive accusations of 'whining' whenever someone makes any criticism, in many cases stifle rational debate. IÆve seen examples of people responding to a thread in such a way, without even reading the post, just the thread title, making their response a total non-sequitur. It is quite sad when people are so desperate to gain the validation of people over the internet. Sometimes internet forums seem like a large scale version of Asch's conformity experiments. EVE 'Megacorp or STFU' Online

Kehmor Caldari Malevolent Emo Herders Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.11.14 03:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Kransthow Originally by: Dirk Magnum I've been here long enough to have actually seen one or two threads which spawned productive discourse '04 player spotted Ye, that's pretty new. - Violence isn't the answer, it is the question. The answer is yes.
Cat Molina Minmatar Psychotic Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.14 03:38:00 - [12] Then let's consider the standard "My Missiles Suck!!!" post. Here's how they are perceived (on my end at least). Many Raven pilots have posted work-arounds to the missile nerf, illustrating to the community that, while not super-powered anymore, with a few adjustments a Raven can, indeed, run a level 4 mission. Those complaining over the missile nerf ignore or attack that point of view. Solution offered... and refused. Those angry with the changes then try to pull the thread off-topic with general (and generally false) remarks over their race ("Caldari suck for PvP, and now we suck at PvE!!!1"). When that is refuted (with proof), they begin a campaign to show that all other races have it easier in level 4 missions. This is a sign they don't want a solution... they just want things the way they were. While on this unholy crusade of dis-intelligence, they completely and totally neglect the other changes (nerfs) which were introduced by this patch. You think a Raven is bad these days? Jump in a Typhoon. Or a Tempest (snicker). Or a Maelstrom. Remember, turret tracking was reduced nearly to a quarter what it used to be... and in the Typhoon's case, it got double the hit for an already scatterbrained-sort of layout. My Rifter's rocket launcher is pretty much crap compared to what it was last week. Webs kinda suck right now. Notice those pilots so angry over their cruise missiles could give less than a damn about everyone else... or god forbid, balance. They're just looking to have it their way. When reminded of this, the angry missile-nerfees degenerate into insults. And, to those unhappy with the changes: the very instant you mention anything which remotely suggest you or others might quit over this issue, you lose all respect. While you most certainly have the ability to vote with your feet, the tendency of people to throw "I'll quit" in CCP's face is rather like a child saying "If you don't let me go to the movies... I'll RUN AWAY!! And then you'll be sorry!" It comes across childish and does not help your cause. I'll say it again: more ships were nerfed than just your damn Ravens.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.11.14 03:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Dirk Magnum You don't have to respect the other side of a so-called debate if the content being presented by that side is a load of crap. The threads where people make sound arguments attract people willing to make sound arguments to the contrary, while threads that offer unfounded crap attract derision. This^^ If you're unhappy about the changes, do some investigation, make some spreadsheets and pretty pictures, make a tl;dr post about it and how it's destroying the game. Well-reasoned, intelligently designed posts get respect. Threads and posts that could be accurately replaced by a fountain of tears should be mocked and derailed until they die _____________________ My opinions plus a tablespoon of water may be substituted for your own.
Noriko Sakai Gallente DC1 Coalition	Posted - 2008.11.14 03:50:00 - [14] I make my living flying Missile boats for missions. And I'm not complaining. Why? I see no need to. I didn't even have to change the setup on my Raven or CNR, I just added some precision cruise and a couple TP drones. I hate to say this. I see a lot of low skill people flying ships that cost billions to make up for their lack of skills. And if you suddenly found that you can no longer solo lvl 4. it's not my fault. Invest in some skill training and the patch have minimal impact.
Allen Ramses Caldari Typo Corp	Posted - 2008.11.14 03:57:00 - [15] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Well-reasoned, intelligently designed posts get respect. No, they mostly get ignored. When not ignored, tey get trolled anyway. ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless. Made a reality by speed and missile nerf.
Malleer	Posted - 2008.11.14 04:03:00 - [16] Why? Because most of the missile whine post has been total bullcaka, spouting whines and nonsense with very little facts. And they keep on and on and on and.......
Malloway	Posted - 2008.11.14 04:04:00 - [17] Originally by: Cat Molina Then let's consider the standard "My Missiles Suck!!!" post. Here's how they are perceived (on my end at least). Many Raven pilots have posted work-arounds to the missile nerf, illustrating to the community that, while not super-powered anymore, with a few adjustments a Raven can, indeed, run a level 4 mission. Those complaining over the missile nerf ignore or attack that point of view. Solution offered... and refused. Those angry with the changes then try to pull the thread off-topic with general (and generally false) remarks over their race ("Caldari suck for PvP, and now we suck at PvE!!!1"). When that is refuted (with proof), they begin a campaign to show that all other races have it easier in level 4 missions. This is a sign they don't want a solution... they just want things the way they were. While on this unholy crusade of dis-intelligence, they completely and totally neglect the other changes (nerfs) which were introduced by this patch. You think a Raven is bad these days? Jump in a Typhoon. Or a Tempest (snicker). Or a Maelstrom. Remember, turret tracking was reduced nearly to a quarter what it used to be... and in the Typhoon's case, it got double the hit for an already scatterbrained-sort of layout. My Rifter's rocket launcher is pretty much crap compared to what it was last week. Webs kinda suck right now. Notice those pilots so angry over their cruise missiles could give less than a damn about everyone else... or god forbid, balance. They're just looking to have it their way. When reminded of this, the angry missile-nerfees degenerate into insults. And, to those unhappy with the changes: the very instant you mention anything which remotely suggest you or others might quit over this issue, you lose all respect. While you most certainly have the ability to vote with your feet, the tendency of people to throw "I'll quit" in CCP's face is rather like a child saying "If you don't let me go to the movies... I'll RUN AWAY!! And then you'll be sorry!" It comes across childish and does not help your cause. I'll say it again: more ships were nerfed than just your damn Ravens. I completely agree with this, the people who are whining “I Quit!” about the changes are extremely selfish. So what if the Raven isn’t the easiest ship to rat and run missions in, get over it and refit your ship accordingly. I have been a Caldari pilot for a little over a year and a half and the only weapons I use are missiles. I for one know that blaster boats have it harder than we missile users do. BS sized blasters laugh at the pilot when there told to fire at a frigate. Please I beg of you stop complaining about this if all your going to do is whine and quit. If you have threatened to quit please go ahead and do it already, they type of character that you people (quitters) show is a type that would be best left out of eve and would make the game more fun for us pilots who enjoy it.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.11.14 04:09:00 - [18] Originally by: Allen Ramses Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Well-reasoned, intelligently designed posts get respect. No, they mostly get ignored. When not ignored, tey get trolled anyway. Depends on a lot of things. I know Bellum Eternus put up a thread that, among other things, included some complaints about how things are with the nanonerf, and it was entirely agreeable and well-presented (and there weren't even any graphs). Granted, I can't speak for everyone, but I do my best to give credit where credit is due _____________________ My opinions plus a tablespoon of water may be substituted for your own.
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis	Posted - 2008.11.14 04:43:00 - [19] To the OP, most whiners come off as "WWAAAHA WWWAAHHHH" so the taunters just respond with same quality level of poasting. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.11.14 04:51:00 - [20] Originally by: Zeba Pot meet Kettle. Worst first post ever. Did you even read the OP? He wasn't whining, nor complaining about whining. Nor was he taunting or insulting anyone. You are a first class moron. To the OP: You are probably failing to account for the dual-purpose nature of posting on forums. True, people do post to discuss the game, find out information, offer criticism (however poorly presented). But there is a social context as well. Every time you make a post you are telling the community something about yourself. People who post a lot have a forum reputation to think about. So, when somebody posts a whining thread, the people who respond are not just talking to the whiner, they are talking to everyone. They may be trying to develop a reputation for humour, or for severe cutting down of idiots. They are also trying to establish a place for themselves within the community hierarchy. Some people side with the pirates, or with the carebears. Some try to fit in with the older players, and others want to be seen as outside all the main groups and the sole voice of reason. So you have these two dynamics at work in every post, and then add to that the fact that some people are using english as a second language, and others are just terrible at expressing themselves. Additionally, you have the greater internet ****wad theory, where normal person + audience + anonymity = asswipe. And then finally, you have memes. People want to be seen as leading the pack in meme use or even creation. Most memes are supposed to be humorous, and the easiest humor is mean-spirited in nature. So when you put all of these factors together, you end up with a forum. More often than not the overall tone ends up being hostile, and this was evident in usenet lists going back to the early '90s, and is seen today in practically every forum in existence. just don't make the mistake of thinking what you read here is in any way representative of how people act to each other in a corp, or in real life. It's not.

Cat Molina Minmatar Psychotic Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:02:00 - [21] I reread my post above and got the feeling I sounded too... mean (for lack of a better word). And that wasn't the intention. I know two pilots in Eve who just cannot be pulled from their Ravens. They use them in PvP (both fleet and solo) and in PvE. And they're deadly with them. Steal everyone's killmails, always manage to get out when things go bad, enemy ships dock when they enter system. These two guys are just incredibly successful in their Ravens. And, as a noob, I saw this and thought "Damn. Ravens are bad-ass!". And then the torp nerf came along. And they still flew them just as effectively. And I'm willing to bet they're flying them now, and still killing whatever they want dead. And I realized; it wasn't the Raven that was dangerous... it was the pilot. So I know some Caldari pilots out there will find a means to make these ships feared (as they should be).
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:09:00 - [22] Originally by: Tiirae Originally by: Zeba Pot meet Kettle. Worst first post ever. Did you even read the OP? He wasn't whining, nor complaining about whining. Nor was he taunting or insulting anyone. You are a first class moron. Hmmm.. Reread the op and he is complaining about people who complain about people who don't wan't people to complain. So I'll break it down for you so you won't have any issues understanding my perfectly valid poast. Originally by: Canis Trucido when did it become not allowed, or frowned upon, to be discontent with changes in this game? Valid question. Quote: Is everyone so mindlessly devouted to the game they refuse to even awknowledge that their game might have become less fun or in some other way of lower quality? It is somehow beyond the realm of possiblity that the changes were in poor taste and not well thought out? Totally sarcstic flame on anyone who disagrees with the ops opinion about people who flame people who flame on the forums. Quote: I don't get it. Last time I checked, complaints,cristicism, and just flat out whining was a very valid and very useful form of feedback. Valid question. Quote: If you feel your position is so weak(that the game is flawless/great/unchanged/changed for the better/etc.) that the only reply to someone attacking it is to taunt them or somehow make an attack on their charecter, doesn't that just show how valid the other persons point is? Total dis on people who like to flame people who like to flame. Yup. Op is just like all the rest of the flamers so I call em as I see em. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Shardrael Caldari Titan Industries Technology Team Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:11:00 - [23] Originally by: Canis Trucido I don't get it. Last time I checked, complaints,cristicism, and just flat out whining was a very valid and very useful form of feedback. clearly --------------------
Faife Noctiscion	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:11:00 - [24] i do it for the killmails. -- Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Verx Interis Amarr Aurora Security Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:13:00 - [25] Originally by: Kransthow Originally by: Dirk Magnum I've been here long enough to have actually seen one or two threads which spawned productive discourse '04 player spotted /win --------- Your bad loan management perfectly strikes the stock market, wrecking for -777.68 points. Eve job list
Souvera Corvus Gallente SPORADIC MOVEMENT FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:44:00 - [26] Any attempt at anything remotely reasonable on these forums ends in tears. True that.
Mutabae	Posted - 2008.11.14 06:24:00 - [27] Originally by: Canis Trucido when did it become not allowed, or frowned upon, to be discontent with changes in this game? Is everyone so mindlessly devouted to the game they refuse to even awknowledge that their game might have become less fun or in some other way of lower quality? It is somehow beyond the realm of possiblity that the changes were in poor taste and not well thought out? I don't get it. Last time I checked, complaints,cristicism, and just flat out whining was a very valid and very useful form of feedback. If you feel your position is so weak(that the game is flawless/great/unchanged/changed for the better/etc.) that the only reply to someone attacking it is to taunt them or somehow make an attack on their charecter, doesn't that just show how valid the other persons point is? I was just wondering. Flames are always acceptable when the people whining are mouth breathers. Stupid people should not post... since they can't grasp that elementary concept, they need to be flamed.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2008.11.14 06:34:00 - [28] When the caldari spec'd characters in my corp tell me something is wrong I'll believe it. So far it's been: "Yeah they hit differently but it's not affecting my missioning any. And it's nice hitting nano ships now."


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