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Orca and benefits

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Thopor	Posted - 2008.11.14 04:31:00 - [1] Seeing that you pretty much have to be a hulk pilot to fly one, when do you see the benefit. 1 orca and 1 hulk, 2 hulks, 3. 4. Verses having the orca pilot in their respective hulk. I know it has the use of the bays and cargo hold I am strickly speaking from a yield prospective. Thanks
Xindi Kraid Caldari Cerulean Sky Fire Industries	Posted - 2008.11.14 09:38:00 - [2] Um no. Hulk requires astrometrics 5. Orca only takes 3. Thats 3 weeks more training. -So says Xindi Kraid Dear devs: Sign here initial here here and here
Marcus Tedric Gallente Tedric Enterprises The Star League	Posted - 2008.11.14 10:02:00 - [3] At Industrial Command Ship Lvl IV (sensible); along with Warfare Link Specialist V; and the Mining Foreman Implant... An Orca with the 2 standard links will boost each Mining vessel by 53.74% (55.1% at Ind Comd V - long time!) Thus Orca + 2xHulks mines more/faster than 3xHulks - with integral hauler. Best suggestion - 2 x Orca's needed, 1 to Direct and Hold, 1 to haul - not sure yet how many Hulks it can effectively support - I'm guessing 6 to 8 at least, halving the hauler trips.
Thopor	Posted - 2008.11.14 10:04:00 - [4] Originally by: Xindi Kraid Um no. Hulk requires astrometrics 5. Orca only takes 3. Thats 3 weeks more training. LMAO, your absolutely right it does take 3 more long, dreadfully long weeks to get in the hulk, though that wasn't my question I do admire you for being so observant to point it out. Next...
Jonak Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:35:00 - [5] Originally by: Xindi Kraid Um no. Hulk requires astrometrics 5. Orca only takes 3. Thats 3 weeks more training. I think you guys mean Astrogeology 5.
Morgan Lorus Caldari Unstable Reaction Inc. North Domain Defense Forces	Posted - 2008.11.14 14:14:00 - [6] Originally by: Marcus Tedric Best suggestion - 2 x Orca's needed, 1 to Direct and Hold, 1 to haul - not sure yet how many Hulks it can effectively support - I'm guessing 6 to 8 at least, halving the hauler trips. The Orca got a Corp Hangar Array, a freighter should be able to used as a hauler.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.11.14 14:17:00 - [7] Originally by: Morgan Lorus The Orca got a Corp Hangar Array, a freighter should be able to used as a hauler. You will find it's impossible to load up a freighter in space from anything other than a freighter wreck anywhere except near a POS.
Jonathan Calvert Minmatar Empire Mining and Trade	Posted - 2008.11.14 14:30:00 - [8] If im mining with 2 toons, Id rather have 1 in a hulk, and one boosting and hauling, just to avoid having to haul when Im done mining, or jet can, or stop mining to haul. It may be less yield, but its also less stress. Same with 3 toons. 2 hulks, one hauler. With an Orca, I can put a hulk on either side, and drag ore right into its corp hold, then from corp hold to cargo when that gets full.
Alpha Dorn	Posted - 2008.11.14 15:46:00 - [9] Here's the way I see this happening: Small Op: 1 Orca, 2 hulks. The Orca will fill (both the cargo and the corp hanger), and once done, haul it back to base. Sure, you lose a little yield per cycle while moving, but it's not terrible. And the amount of yield you get while parked and with the command links turned on can justify it. Large Op: 1 Orca, 3+ Hulks, 1 hauler per 3 Hulks. In a larger op, I see the Orca as acting more as a central hub for ore movement and handing out command bonuses. Instead of haulers moving all over the system to clear out cans, they simply warp to the Orca pilot, open the corp hanger, grab what they can and haul it back to base. And with the Orcas being able to carry/use 5 med drones, they should be able to cover the fleet so that the Hulk's can carry mining drones instead of med drones for self-defense.
Jonak Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.14 16:41:00 - [10] Just be sure that the Orca pilot and haulers are in the same corp. If not, the Orca pilot has to drop jetcans for the haulers. Even Alliance members can't remove items from corp hangar. Maybe if they are allowed to as an Alliance with your POS hangars, then maybe they can on the Orca. I'm not sure as I've never used a feature like that.
Woodwraith Digital assassins G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.11.15 18:13:00 - [11] Just make sure you send the orca to drop off when a laser cycle has just started and get it back outside and turn the links on before the next one starts so you dont loose the cycle time bonus
Jonak Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.15 20:30:00 - [12] Yep. That's the key.
Professer Kyoto	Posted - 2008.11.16 16:17:00 - [13] Here's something I thought up at work, similiar to what another person who posted said, but with a twist. It would work with relatively large ops, and keep everyone busy. The op starts with 2 pilots slated to fly an Orca, and whatever amount of hulks, preferably more than one . One sits in an Orca, and give bonuses, the other mines until the first is close to full. He stops mining, picks up his orca, and comes out, taking over the bonuses, while the other drops off his load. Depending on the speed of the op, the second pilot may be full by the time the first returns, in that case the first can just take over the bonuses again, and the second can drop off his load. If not, the first can just wait till the other is full. Repeat the process till the op is done.
Builder One	Posted - 2008.11.17 12:32:00 - [14] Edited by: Builder One on 17/11/2008 12:32:40 Hrm, many miners, one orca. One POS. One Rorq or Jump Freighter. Orca loads up continuously, takes ore to POS, drops in storage. Rorq or freighter stop by now and then to haul it out. Perhaps one of the miners flies the JF or Rorq. If there is a cyno on the station, so much the better :) Can use a standard freighter.
McFly C0LDFIRE RUDE Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.17 13:33:00 - [15] Originally by: Professer Kyoto Here's something I thought up at work, similiar to what another person who posted said, but with a twist. It would work with relatively large ops, and keep everyone busy. The op starts with 2 pilots slated to fly an Orca, and whatever amount of hulks, preferably more than one . One sits in an Orca, and give bonuses, the other mines until the first is close to full. He stops mining, picks up his orca, and comes out, taking over the bonuses, while the other drops off his load. Depending on the speed of the op, the second pilot may be full by the time the first returns, in that case the first can just take over the bonuses again, and the second can drop off his load. If not, the first can just wait till the other is full. Repeat the process till the op is done. In that example I'd keep the bonuses guy in the belt, and haul with the other specifically. Set the Hauler as the wing commander, and the primary bonus guy as the squad. If the squad guy has to afk, he the wing gets out there and takes over pick up with the tractor and however long he can he'll hold it down on his own. But I still think that the better of the options is 1 designated Mining Director (Bonuses/Tractoring Cans/Organizing Ore) and 1-2 Hauling Orcas will be the most beneficial. Also something I need to look into, if an orca is in Wing with say Link 1 and 2. and the squad commander is using link 2 and 3. Now last I knew it took the highest bonus being passed down, so the wing would pass link 1 and 2 directly down to the squad members but will the squad commander pass down link 3 as well? or does the wing override ? With skill I believe it's whoever has the highest skills passes it down. But with link does it work the same ?? Off to SiSi I go....
Cheru'bael Amarr Ordo Ministorum	Posted - 2008.11.17 13:55:00 - [16] the point, for me, of the orca will be to combine the function of hauler and foreman. An added bonus will be the ability to fly anywhere and have the 2 hulk pilots in combat ships. Obviously, the "added bonus" is sort of specific to those who like to mine and combat. which, apparently, according to some unspoken forum rule, is an impossibility. ___________________________________________ http://omnm.info
Ralle030583 Gallente Mystic Lion Hearts Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.11.17 15:22:00 - [17] Originally by: Marcus Tedric An Orca with the 2 standard links will boost each Mining vessel by 53.74% (55.1% at Ind Comd V - long time!) Thus Orca + 2xHulks mines more/faster than 3xHulks - with integral hauler. have you numbers for it it? i dont really think thats so easy to calculate, cause the pilot with mining foreman skills also give some basic bonuses when only flying a hulk. also the number obove 50% seems a bit high to me
Bloody Rabbit Jita Miners	Posted - 2008.11.17 16:20:00 - [18] Remember no other ship other than Rorgual or Orca gives bonus to mining command mods. So all those fleet booster will be out bloosted by the Orca.
Morgan Lorus Caldari Unstable Reaction Inc. North Domain Defense Forces	Posted - 2008.11.17 17:04:00 - [19] Edited by: Morgan Lorus on 17/11/2008 17:04:28 Originally by: Ralle030583 you numbers for it it? i dont really think thats so easy to calculate, cause the pilot with mining foreman skills also give some basic bonuses when only flying a hulk. also the number obove 50% seems a bit high to me The 55.1% is correct, theres like no difference between Orca and Rorq (60% boost). Rorqs Bonus is 5% per Capital Industrial level. Orcas Bonus is 3% per Indy Com level.
Calvin Okone Gallente LSP Industries	Posted - 2008.11.17 17:34:00 - [20] Wow you guys are heavy duty. I guess you all regularly strip mine whole systems?
Alpha Dorn	Posted - 2008.11.17 23:41:00 - [21] To answer the original question: With the inclusion of the Orca and a pilot with the right command skills, the benefits can bee seen with just 2 Hulks. Anything more is just piling on. For example: A standard Hulk will get 20 cycles/hour. Three Hulks and you're up to 60 cycles/hour. But, if you add in an Orca with heavy command skills, you can bring down the cycle time on the Strip Miners to almost the 2 minute range. That's an extra 10 cycles per ship per hour. You could drop one Hulk and still be getting close to the same output.
Calvin Okone Gallente LSP Industries	Posted - 2008.11.17 23:49:00 - [22] How is it possible that there will be any roids left with these things out there?
Mara Rinn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.18 00:02:00 - [23] Don't forget that a pilot flying an Orca as opposed to two pilots flying Hulks will save the round trip time to drop off the cargohold full of ore. For me, the turnaround time to a next-system dropoff is about 7 minutes, and rigged for maximum yield my Hulk will fill it's hold in two and a bit cycles. This means I'm only 50% efficient when running back to station every time my hold fills up. Add a dedicated hauler into the mix (my hauler alt is currently using an Itty IV while training for the Orca - I should have trained for Bestower instead) and my efficiency suddenly doubles. Make that hauler a mining director, and my efficiency goes up even more. Put that hauler in an Orca, train for the mining links, and there's even more efficiency to be had. The second character can be flying a Hulk or a hauler, and provide the same efficiency boost to a mining duo. As a single player playing two characters, I'm going for the Orca + 1 Hulk mix to increase the amount of time I have available to do ironing while watching my character mine veldspar. In the Orca, my hauler/mining director will be granting more bonuses to the Hulk pilot than she could if she was flying a Hulk herself.
Alpha Dorn	Posted - 2008.11.18 00:03:00 - [24] Originally by: Calvin Okone How is it possible that there will be any roids left with these things out there? Simple. Not everyone is in a huge hi-sec corp. And not all huge corps have big mining ops all the time. Most are small timers. Some, like me, run three accounts: Two miners and now, and Orca. It's not enough to one-shot a belt, but it sure does increase the yield nicely.

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