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Lego Maniac
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.18 06:04:00 -
[1]
if I don't have the isk when someone fills my order, will the transaction not go through or will I end up with a negative wallet balance? |
Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.18 09:53:00 -
[2]
The transaction will not go through and the order will be cancelled. |
Lego Maniac
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.18 10:11:00 -
[3]
thanks  |
Ralara
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.19 07:50:00 -
[4]
What Estel said.
Although keep in mind when it's cancelled, you will end up losing the market fees/taxes that were set up when you placed the buy order.
If you're a serious trader, get it to level 5. If you're not a serious trader (and by serious trader I mean trading is that character's primary purpose) then level 3 or 4 is fine. |
Joss Rockefeller
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Posted - 2008.11.23 00:01:00 -
[5]
afaik you cant have a situation where you can place a buy order and you have no ISK to pay for it, when you place the buy order your account is debited the required amount of ISK until it is either filled or you cancel it.
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Marine HK4861
Caldari
Radical Technologies
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Posted - 2008.11.23 01:50:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Joss Rockefeller
afaik you cant have a situation where you can place a buy order and you have no ISK to pay for it, when you place the buy order your account is debited the required amount of ISK until it is either filled or you cancel it.
May I suggest you actually read the title of this thread and then look up what Margin Trading does?
With the skill to 5, you only need 76% of the total ISK required to place the order. You have to come up with the remaining 24% when your initial deposit runs out otherwise the order is cancelled as the above posters have stated.
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.23 11:06:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Marine HK4861
May I suggest you actually read the title of this thread and then look up what Margin Trading does?
With the skill to 5, you only need 76% of the total ISK required to place the order. You have to come up with the remaining 24% when your initial deposit runs out otherwise the order is cancelled as the above posters have stated.
Very nice reply Marine HK4861, I would've probably just posted a snarky reply to such a comment. 
I would like to point out that you switched the percentages: with the skill at lvl V you only need 24% to place the order and have to come up with 76% as needed (not when the deposit runs out, but whenever a buy is made).
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Rosalina Sarinna
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.11.23 12:07:00 -
[8]
So let me just pose an example to make sure we all understand each other 
[Assume lvl 5 in the skill]
[10 mil buy order is placed]
Fees for the order are taken plus 24% of the buy order amount (in this example 2.4m goes from your wallet)
If the order is never filled, you get the 24% back (2.4m) but dont get fees back.
If the order is filled, your wallet is deduced 76% (7.6m).
If your wallet cannot support the 76% further amount, you lose the order, lose the fees, but you get the 2.4m back.
This is correct, yes?
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.23 12:26:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Estel Arador on 23/11/2008 12:29:14
Originally by: Rosalina Sarinna
So let me just pose an example to make sure we all understand each other
[Assume lvl 5 in the skill]
[10 mil buy order is placed]
Fees for the order are taken plus 24% of the buy order amount (in this example 2.4m goes from your wallet)
If the order is never filled, you get the 24% back (2.4m) but dont get fees back.
If the order is filled, your wallet is deduced 76% (7.6m).
If your wallet cannot support the 76% further amount, you lose the order, lose the fees, but you get the 2.4m back.
This is correct, yes?
Correct.
To add some more detail, say you're putting up a buy order of 10.000.000 (10M) tritanium for 3,00 isk (to make the math easy). The total buy order value is 30.000.000 isk, which was the non-refundable fees are based on.
With Margin Trading V, 7,2M isk (24% of the 30M isk) will be put in escrow. The first 2.4M units of trit (24% of the total) which are sold to your buy order will be paid from the escrow amount (regardless of whether it's all at once or in bits and pieces). Once the first 2.4 units are bought, any further sales to the buy order will be deducted directly from your wallet. Let's say someone sells you 1M units (after all the isk in escrow is used up), then 3M isk will be taken from your wallet. If someone later sells 500k units, 1,5M isk is taken. And so on until the buy order total of 10M units is reached.
So when putting up large orders for lots of units of something - which will be unlikely to be filled at once but rather of the course of days or even weeks - there's no need to actually ever have the total amount of isk, or even a large part of it, in your wallet as long as you make enough cash along the way to cover any further sales to your order.
If you do not have enough isk to cover it, that particular sale will not go through and whatever is left of the order will be cancelled, but whatever has been sold to your order earlier is still yours.
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Rosalina Sarinna
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.11.23 21:35:00 -
[10]
Thankyou Estel, I think we are all happy now we understand this skill 
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Marine HK4861
Caldari
Radical Technologies
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Posted - 2008.11.24 00:19:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Estel Arador
Very nice reply Marine HK4861, I would've probably just posted a snarky reply to such a comment.
You should have seen the earlier drafts of my post then.
Quote:
I would like to point out that you switched the percentages: with the skill at lvl V you only need 24% to place the order and have to come up with 76% as needed (not when the deposit runs out, but whenever a buy is made).
Thanks for the clarification - the description in the Item Database is a bit ambiguous.
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Jita Sucks
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Posted - 2008.11.24 21:52:00 -
[12]
Well, I do a lot of trading and my intention was to skill Margin Trading soon, but your good explanations made me think about it twice.
K, I need the total cash in my wallet if I place buy orders but with this skill only a certain amount will be put into escrow depending on my skill level. How nice, my wallet is still full . But my buy orders can be fulfilled ANYTIME  , so what is the benefit of this skill?
If I don't want to lose money for noncovering the orders I need to keep my wallet with all needed cash ANYTIME - and I can't turn the "feature" off? It is just more work to keep an eye on my orders vs wallet...
Please can somebody of the traders explain how he handles this skill effectively cos I can't see the point in it? (I'm stupid and I know it )
Thanks, JS
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.24 22:07:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jita Sucks
Well, I do a lot of trading and my intention was to skill Margin Trading soon, but your good explanations made me think about it twice.
K, I need the total cash in my wallet if I place buy orders but with this skill only a certain amount will be put into escrow depending on my skill level. How nice, my wallet is still full . But my buy orders can be fulfilled ANYTIME , so what is the benefit of this skill?
If I don't want to lose money for noncovering the orders I need to keep my wallet with all needed cash ANYTIME - and I can't turn the "feature" off? It is just more work to keep an eye on my orders vs wallet...
Please can somebody of the traders explain how he handles this skill effectively cos I can't see the point in it? (I'm stupid and I know it )
Thanks, JS
Firstly, some orders just will not be filled all at once, you should get a hang of how fast (or slow) items trade as you go along. You can place an order for several times the daily volume, it's easier than placing a new order every day 
Secondly, the 'orders' page in your wallet and in the market shows exactly how much isk you have in escrow and how much is not in escrow but will be needed for buy orders at some point. If you want to be 100% on the safe side, just keep enough isk on hand to cover as much as it says there. (You can not turn Margin Trading off.)
Thirdly, the whole point of this skill is to use your isk more effectively. Isk in escrow is isk doing nothing, especially if it just sits there for days or weeks. Reducing the isk in escrow gives you more isk to play with.
Even if you keep enough isk on hand to cover all your buy orders completely, you could still use that isk for quick trades while you're online, generating that bit of extra profit.
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Jita Sucks
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Posted - 2008.11.24 22:15:00 -
[14]
Thanks Estel,
I think it is a skill for professional traders and good tool to maximize profit. I will do the skill to lvl1 and see how I can manage it.
o/
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.24 22:24:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jita Sucks
Thanks Estel,
I think it is a skill for professional traders and good tool to maximize profit. I will do the skill to lvl1 and see how I can manage it.
o/
You're welcome. I just noticed something else in your previous post which is incorrect:
Originally by: Jita Sucks
K, I need the total cash in my wallet if I place buy orders but with this skill only a certain amount will be put into escrow depending on my skill level.
You do NOT need the total cash in your wallet EVER. You only need as much cash as is put in escrow at the time you place the order. (As has been explained above, you will need isk to cover the rest of the order when needed.)
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