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Dynasty Banking - is it trustable?

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Linia Gallente Linia Corp	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:45:00 - [1] Yea, I know its prolly a silly question, but is it trustable? I wouldnt mind a comment or two from someone that has money there if your not too busy.
Banni Vinda Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.19 18:25:00 - [2] If I said 'Yes', would you sue me if you lost ISK to them? If I said 'No', would that mean you wouldn't use them? The correct answer is 'Based on the evidence we've seen, probably'. The slightly longer answer is that they seem to be doing quite well. They've been running for a little while, no disgruntled customers have come forward, and most of the staff generally seem to know what they are doing. That's about it really. If you're looking for an absolute safety guarantee, I'm afraid you'll never get it. Past performance is the closest you'll get. I know they've put a fair bit of work into their organisation, they've taken on some good advice from people, and thus far have offered some decent returns. Its up to you to form that into an ISK value that you feel comfortable with.
Wishdokkta CEO Tilt Station	Posted - 2008.11.19 18:50:00 - [3] What Banni said. I have a fair bit of isk with them and have for a few months and have been seriously impressed with both the returns and the service. You build these things on trust and Dynasty are going the right way about it imho.
Adrian Proteus	Posted - 2008.11.19 18:51:00 - [4] I've been using Dynasty for some time now and I find it very reliable. I've never had any problems and their response times to deposits and withdrawals is very satisfactory. Not to mention that their interest on checking accounts and CDs is superior to EBANK. That being said, I keep money in both EBANK and Dynasty but most of my cash is in Dynasty because of the far better rates. Hope this helps. "If you're hands aren't bleeding, you're not working hard enough." - Caladari Work Ethic
Xabier THE SORORITY CODE RED ALLIANCE	Posted - 2008.11.19 19:13:00 - [5] Its a bit like RL, you get your banks like Northern Rock, Barings Bank and Glitnir's. Xabiers Capital Bond #1 Xabiers Capital Bond #2
Lexander Morinex Caldari LDD Investments	Posted - 2008.11.19 19:31:00 - [6] I would like to think I am trustworthy. However, even if I myself an trustworthy, it does not follow that all who I associate with are. I can't claim to know the inner thoughts of Manalapan, Iknota, or Exec Order. I don't know much at all about the internal operations. My focus has always been on getting Dynasty Bank past it's origins as a small operation into that next stage where it becomes a well-known and established institution. I can say that in my conversations with them, they have given me no obvious reasons to distrust them, nor done anything that I would say should raise a red flag. I can say that I hesitated to join them at first because communication was originally quite poor. That is one of those changes that has to happen when you go from a couple of guys doing a neat thing into something bigger. In the past few months there has been a highly improved system of communication within the company. I can also say that in my internal communications, I have repeatedly championed the cause of transparency, communication, and ethical integrity. I firmly believe that the success of DBANK depends entirely on the bank remaining trustworthy in even the smallest of cases. I believe that trust is a commodity of extreme value, whose value exceeds virtually any possible point where 'cutting and running' would be a good result. Nobody within the group has ever expressed otherwise. The bank runs profitably, and though it will get harder to make ISK as we grow, the basic foundations of the bank are solid. The advantages of running a bank successfully exceed the actual ISK value of the operation (at least to me). I can't promise you the Board agrees with that concept as much as I do, but I think we all get a great deal of satisfaction out of seeing players show the trust in us to invest their ISK. Put another way, if the Board did cut and run with the money, I would be angry enough that I would be in the business of making a few players very unhappy for the remainder of their EVE playing experience (to the best of my limited ability, mind you). Can't promise it won't happen, but at least one person in the company has no intention of ever doing so. - Lexander Morinex
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2008.11.19 19:41:00 - [7] Originally by: Lexander Morinex WAFFLE Lex reading your wordy statements is liking reading the warranty of a drug manufacturer all lawyered up. Why say 1 word when 25 will do. You could just say, that Dynasty Bank are one of the MORE safe investments. If you are really concerned with your ISK keep most of it in your wallet.
Lexander Morinex Caldari LDD Investments	Posted - 2008.11.19 19:51:00 - [8] Lol, My father is a lawyer, and that was the way we did things in the house when I was growing up. One line saying 'We can be trusted' is pretty meaningless. Since I have a stake in this, the normal disclaimer seemed a bit dry. So, summarizing: #1) I consider myself trustworthy #2) I think the value of running Dynasty honorably is higher than the limited value of ISK. #3) I can't prove that the others feel the same way. - Lexander Morinex
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.11.19 20:11:00 - [9] Originally by: Manalapan I am willing to invest around 5% a month(yes I know I offer 10% but that is not the point). [...] very few 10% returns last long or don't scam) [...] That should have told you something right away. Black Sun Empire
Waseem	Posted - 2008.11.19 20:37:00 - [10] Edited by: Waseem on 19/11/2008 20:39:10 Edited by: Waseem on 19/11/2008 20:38:39 Edited by: Waseem on 19/11/2008 20:38:04 In regards to that quote, I think while it can be viewed as a warning sign, lets also note that much less return investments have also turned into "scam" or not lasted very long. The wording there is open to a lot of interpretation. One could argue that the 10% Xabier bond, while certainly not a scam, didn't last very long. It was over in a short period of time. It was "over" in a good way. One could also argue that any decent return operation doesn't last very long because they find out they can get large or larger amounts of money for cheaper rates because of their integrity. Examples of that would be any of the short term bonds where right after the bond is done they ask for similar amounts of isk only at a couple percentage points lower. Other examples are Ray Bonds, EBank, Shar's most recent offer and a whole host of others. Maybe there was a time they offered 10% or higher return on their time, but now they don't need to and they offer the 4-5% we see now. So unless you have additional details of Dynasty, I think its pretty obvious those comments are being taken way out of context.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.11.19 20:59:00 - [11] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 19/11/2008 21:04:12 Originally by: Waseem So unless you have additional details of Dynasty, I think its pretty obvious those comments are being taken way out of context. To the contrary, that comment is pretty relevant by itself. Have you seen Ricdic investing in ventures that offered lower return than Ebank? Of course not. Manalapan on the other hand is trying to buy time in order to lure as many investors as possible. He will keep it legit for as long as he can though beyond certain point the deposits will greatly surpass withdrawals and it will all turn into a self sustainable Ponzi scheme.
Lexander Morinex Caldari LDD Investments	Posted - 2008.11.19 21:36:00 - [12] Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 19/11/2008 21:30:11 Manalapan on the other hand is trying to buy time in order to lure as many investors as possible. It is my belief that he will keep it legit for as long as he can though beyond a certain point the isk deposited will greatly surpass withdrawals and it will all turn into a self propelled Ponzi scheme. An interesting take. Pessimism is certainly healthy, but it seems to me you are basically making an educated guess. Would you consider Ricdic to be engaging in the same behavior? If not, what is the difference you see? - Lexander Morinex
Waseem	Posted - 2008.11.19 21:41:00 - [13] Edited by: Waseem on 19/11/2008 21:44:13 No I don't see Ric doing that, but there could be several reasons why. One being that Ebank has said over and over that they are not out to compete against the secondary market and that infact they lowered the rate to try and promote this. So when you see people come here saying they want public funds at 4% they get yelled at because "In Ebank I can get 3% at much less risk etc etc." I think it would be pretty hard actually to find someone to run an IPO/Bond that pays 1% and people would actually sub to it. I do see people who have run large bonds and IPOs that offered 6-10% return turn around and invest in something offering less return. Does that mean they are also just trying to get isk to keep their offers afloat?
Lexander Morinex Caldari LDD Investments	Posted - 2008.11.19 21:44:00 - [14] It is clear to me that over time Dynasty will have to lower rates. That has been discussed internally. The original rates are intended to be competitive, while the company builds up investors and public reputation. I have no idea what the long term will bring, but 10% is too high to sustain. - Lexander
Waseem	Posted - 2008.11.19 21:47:00 - [15] I also assumed that Dynasty would reduce their payouts across the board. Ebank has done the same, as have a handful of people offering bonds. I don't really see a problem with it on the overall scale.
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.11.19 22:19:00 - [16] Dynasty was at 10% initially to compete with Fury Bank. Now that Fury aren't around Dynasty could seriously reduce it's rates in line with the markets. That has always been my biggest concern with DBANK. Not that they would scam but that they wouldn't be able to keep things running whilst paying out 10% per month, whilst needing to keep some cash on hand for withdrawals etc.
Manalapan Dynasty Banking	Posted - 2008.11.19 22:23:00 - [17] Edited by: Manalapan on 19/11/2008 22:23:24 There are current plans to reduce the interest rates across the board primarily for sustainability. 10% interest was required to start off since we were completely new to the public eye and competing against the EBANK and Fury. Now, isk has started to grow to a point where 10% return is going to start becoming more difficult to achieve. So out of necessity the interest rate is going to have to be lowered. However, this is going to be more acceptable as MD has seen us for the better part of a year now and grown to trust us, not necessarily completely but to a point where lower returns would be acceptable. And yes YGR there does need to be some means of allowing players to better gauge the success and be able to trust businesses in EVE.
Estel Arador Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.19 22:38:00 - [18] The high interest rate is exactly why Dynasty Bank hasn't seen any of my ISK yet. It's an application of the principle 'if it seems to good to be true, it probably is'.
Lexander Morinex Caldari LDD Investments	Posted - 2008.11.19 22:49:00 - [19] Originally by: Estel Arador The high interest rate is exactly why Dynasty Bank hasn't seen any of my ISK yet. It's an application of the principle 'if it seems to good to be true, it probably is'. If people would actually be MORE willing to deposit with DBANK if we lower the rates, then I am pretty sure we could figure out some way to accommodate that request. - Lexander Morinex
Estel Arador Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.19 23:43:00 - [20] Originally by: Lexander Morinex If people would actually be MORE willing to deposit with DBANK if we lower the rates, then I am pretty sure we could figure out some way to accommodate that request. My point is not that I do not want as high an interest rate as possible, it is that a 10% profit (which you have to have to offer an interest rate that high) is not sustainable over longer periods and gets harder to achieve the more isk you have. As long as you offer 10% to anyone and everyone, warning signals will keep going off in my head. If and when you lower the interest rate to a sustainable level, and you stay in business for another while after that, I would consider using the service.
Balogh Gallente Real-time EVE Stock Exchange	Posted - 2008.11.19 23:43:00 - [21] Edited by: Balogh on 19/11/2008 23:44:25 Originally by: YouGotRipped Originally by: Manalapan I am willing to invest around 5% a month(yes I know I offer 10% but that is not the point). [...] very few 10% returns last long or don't scam) [...] That should have told you something right away. Indeed. Uninvested ISK isn't generating any profit at all. If they had a large pool of uninvested ISK at that moment, it would make perfect sense to invest some of it for 'only' 5% per month. _________ Real-time EVE Stock Exchange, Blog Feature request: Share transfer log (13 months and counting!
Mr Horizontal Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.19 23:51:00 - [22] Originally by: Manalapan Now, isk has started to grow to a point where 10% return is going to start becoming more difficult to achieve. So out of necessity the interest rate is going to have to be lowered. Glad to hear it. Originally by: Manalapan However, this is going to be more acceptable as MD has seen us for the better part of a year now and grown to trust us, not necessarily completely but to a point where lower returns would be acceptable. From my perspective, MD has learned from surviving the sheer diabolic state of the secondary market in the early summer, that having any form of consistent ROI is better than nothing, so maintaining the health of a venture is a far better strategy to take. However people have grown to expect such high rates from you so don't shoot yourselves in the foot by lowering the rates too much! Chairman \| www.eve-bank.net
Lexander Morinex Caldari LDD Investments	Posted - 2008.11.20 00:44:00 - [23] Since Manalapan has posted about it, I feel I can talk about it a little. There is actually a formal plan for when and by how much the interest rates will be lowered. It won't be a sudden drop, and the CD's will be structured so that you get the full interest rate over the period of the CD. Anyone who owns a CD will always be guaranteed the full rate posted, though higher interest rate CD's will be retired and replaced with lower interest rates. The rates will most likely (but not 'almost surely') remain higher than EBANK for the medium to long term. I personally would like the rates to begin to approach EBANK rates, but that is out of my hands. Dynasty came to the table late, and has to compete against EBANK directly. The business plan reflects the reality of that situation. The one thing that is very clear from internal discussions is the plan for Dynasty is essentially perpetual in the same sense that EBANK is. It may take a little time to catch up, but that IS the plan, and getting there is something I personally am looking forward to. - Lexander Morinex
Exec Order Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.20 02:46:00 - [24] The Dynasty Bank Board of Directors is continuously monitoring the bankÆs liquidity and profitability and how that relates to the interest rates that we are able to extend to our customers. Our current rates were originally designed to attract new customers with higher rates given that the bank was started from scratch and needed to provide an ample risk/reward ratio as we work to build a strong reputation. We recognize that it will become increasingly difficult to maintain a top interest rate of 10%, and as Lexander mentioned, we have developed a plan to address rates and offerings as needed. Frankly, one of the very first things I asked Manalapan and Iknota when I was considering joining the Dynasty Board was how long the Bank could manage to offer such high relative rates. I had noticed that a 10% monthly return was about the best thing going in MD, and in my view generally represented higher risk investments. I felt that the Bank already had a strong enough reputation that it could lower rates without taking a substantial hit to deposit growth. The response that I received played a large part in my final decision to join them. I was basically told that while bank profits were important to maintain overall bank stability and that rates would be adjusted as required in the future to that end, they wanted to provide as high a rate as is responsibly possible to reward customers for helping the Bank grow. Speaking strictly for myself, I also chose to get involved with Dynasty Bank, because I felt that it provided a unique opportunity to engage in a whole different aspect of Eve. The MD/IPO/Investment portion of this community can add an exciting dynamic, and I am proud to be part of strengthening that aspect through helping to build an institution dedicated to expanding the community. Certainly I recognize EBANK as the big player, but for this community to truly thrive there needs to be more than one or two primary organizations. I think EBANK recognizes that as well, and I would like to thank them for the assistance that they have provided to Dynasty largely through advice and constructive criticism. To the original topic of this post, of course there are no guarantees in life, but I can tell you that I am part of Dynasty Bank because I believe that we are here to stay. I am committed, as are our other board members and staff, to providing a friendly and reliable financial services partner to our clients. We are continuing to work to add new services, and have development plans that stretch out many months from now. If we were simply out to collect as much ISK from other players as possible, we wouldnÆt have a limit on the amount that people can deposit each month. That limitation places a serious restriction on our potential growth, but helps us to ensure that we are able to responsibly manage that growth. We will certainly be required to adjust our rates from time to time in reflection of the markets and also to ensure our number one goal of providing a safe place for people to leverage their reserve ISK, but ultimately your question can only be answered by the passage of time. We have over 8 months under our belt now. If you are not ready to trust us with you hard earned ISK yet, then check back with us in 2, 4, or 8 more months. We plan to still be here, and hope to someday also be your Financial Partner. Exec Order Dynasty Bank Director
Lo Lightshard Insurrection Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.20 03:02:00 - [25] Originally by: EBANK Ricdic That has always been my biggest concern with DBANK. Not that they would scam but that they wouldn't be able to keep things running whilst paying out 10% per month, whilst needing to keep some cash on hand for withdrawals etc. But EBank has a related issue. It is not only the percentage return that is cause for concern but the amount of capital that a return is being paid on. It is generally held that the more capital you have the lower the possible percentage return. Of these hypothetical banks which is taking the greater risks -- one with 100B in deposits and half a dozen active staff that returns 10% per month or one with 1.5T in deposits and a dozen active staff that returns 3%? Now double the capital held by each -- same answer? Do either scale, even to the levels they are currently at without there being significant risk? Respect to both banks for what they have achieved but isn't this getting a little hot, even for this forum?

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