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Astro Glyde	Posted - 2008.11.20 19:59:00 - [1] I've got all my advanced learns to IV, what's the best path to get them to V? I see a lot of different suggestions, is there a consensus?
Dyaven The Tuskers	Posted - 2008.11.20 20:13:00 - [2] The best way is to don't do it. ===== * Your signature file is broken. Please use an image that will display - Fallout
Estel Arador Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.20 20:52:00 - [3] Best path (if you are getting them to V...) is highest attribute first, if I remember correctly. Check EveMon to be sure.
FlameGlow Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.21 07:56:00 - [4] Originally by: Estel Arador Best path (if you are getting them to V...) is highest attribute first, if I remember correctly. Check EveMon to be sure. EVEMon will probably not advise to train those at all, unless training plan is over 5 year long _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button.
RaTTuS BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.11.21 08:38:00 - [5] 1) don't bother - 2) put then in evemon and see what it says when you move them 3) seriously don't bother unless you know you'll be playing this character in 3 yrs with 3yrs of training 4) just do the lowest specced one you have - it is a diminishing set of returns the higher you go
Reygrimm	Posted - 2008.11.21 16:07:00 - [6] When you hear your inner voice telling you "Need to increase attributes, need to be training skills as quickly as possible", I'd appease it by training an advanced skill to 5 that you'll be using for a Primary attribute. (Say Perception if you've got something gunnery planned). When you hear your inner voice telling you "You're not getting anywhere, these learning skills aren't actually helping you play the game right now, today", I'd appease it by stopping training and switching to something you want. This way eventually you might get the learning skills and you'll still remain sane. Reygrimm P.S. For full disclosure I had my PC on the fritz about a year ago. Could log in enough to change skills but not really play. So I used this time to get all the Advanced to V. Nice to have done and over with, but not very rewarding to come back able to play and not have any new "real" skills.
Valrandir Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.21 16:12:00 - [7] do it This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware.
Tac Ginaz Gallente Coalition of Nations	Posted - 2008.11.22 07:54:00 - [8] it depends on your character really. I'm in the same spot. I trained all the stuff I wanted for my character to advanced 4s. Now, finally, I reach the point where I REALLY want that extra 2% or 5% bonus. So I'm training up all my learning skills to advanced 5 (they were at 4), plugging the best implants I can get on a training clone.. and prepare myself to leave that toon in that station for many months at a time... all the while I play another game. ------------------------------------------------- Re-Design Stealth Bomber Weapons!
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2008.11.22 09:45:00 - [9] Get all adv learning to lvl 5 ready for T3 then spend 1+year learning T3 and base skills towards it. You could be far better off over someone who doesn't have adv5. ____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
Epidemis	Posted - 2008.11.22 13:33:00 - [10] The only adv learning skills I have gotten to V is willpower and perception..

Chelone Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.11.27 01:57:00 - [11] Originally by: Dyaven The best way is to don't do it. QFT.
Myrhial Arkenath Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.11.27 09:56:00 - [12] What implants are you currently using? +4 absolutely should come before advanced V's, and I am quite sure that training cybernetics V for +5 implants may be faster. Of course this means you need to have the ISK for the implants ^_^ Diary of a pod pilot
Andrymeda	Posted - 2008.11.27 15:39:00 - [13] Originally by: Astro Glyde I've got all my advanced learns to IV, what's the best path to get them to V? I see a lot of different suggestions, is there a consensus? Each day they are not at lvl 5 is a day wasted. ----------- Amused pilot
Jiris Yusef	Posted - 2008.11.28 00:07:00 - [14] Save the 2-3 months it would take you and train useful skills.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2008.11.28 07:32:00 - [15] Edited by: Pottsey on 28/11/2008 07:32:21 Jiris Yusef said "Save the 2-3 months it would take you and train useful skills." But adv5 learning can be more useful then current skills. What if you have the base skills you need then get the adv5 learning skills then spend a year or longer training T3? Or training skills needed for T3? Your going to end up much better off with adv5 learning then without. Adv5 learning can give more useful skill points in a matter of months. ____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
Estel Arador Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.28 09:01:00 - [16] Originally by: Pottsey But adv5 learning can be more useful then current skills. What if you have the base skills you need then get the adv5 learning skills then spend a year or longer training T3? Or training skills needed for T3? Your going to end up much better off with adv5 learning then without. Adv5 learning can give more useful skill points in a matter of months. If you're gonna spend a year training skills for T3, the Adv Learning skills will allow you to get them in 50 weeks instead of 52 weeks. There are two things to consider though: 1) I highly doubt that anything which gets newly introduced will need a full year of training to be used. 2) You will have spent a few months to get that two-week advantage.
Stria Shijera Minmatar Hikage Corporation G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.11.28 09:43:00 - [17] Do it
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.28 12:12:00 - [18] Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 28/11/2008 07:32:21 Jiris Yusef said "Save the 2-3 months it would take you and train useful skills." But adv5 learning can be more useful then current skills. What if you have the base skills you need then get the adv5 learning skills then spend a year or longer training T3? Or training skills needed for T3? Your going to end up much better off with adv5 learning then without. Adv5 learning can give more useful skill points in a matter of months. A marginal and chancy advantage compared to the significant and definite disadvantage.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2008.11.28 12:55:00 - [19] Estel Arador said ôIf you're gonna spend a year training skills for T3, the Adv Learning skills will allow you to get them in 50 weeks instead of 52 weeks.ö The way I see it is Pilot A with adv5. Pilot B with adv4. After a set amount of time Pilot A finishes T3 skill 1. Pilot B still training skill 1.Pilot A finishes T3 skill 2. While pilot B still training skill 2. Until the point where Pilot A has trained a full skill and moves onto the next one before pilot B has even started the full skill Pilot A has finished. Sure you might only be 2 weeks ahead after 1 year but youÆre contently ahead and pulling further ahead. Estel Arador said ô1) I highly doubt that anything which gets newly introduced will need a full year of training to be used.ö From the sounds of it they are adding lots of different T3 things meaning lots and lots of skills. Along with lots of base skills which I bet need to be lvl 5. Estel Arador said ô2) You will have spent a few months to get that two-week advantage.ö ThatÆs wrong you have spent a few months to be at an advantage for 1 year and onwards. YouÆre not at an advantage for only 2 weeks. YouÆre at an advantage right from the first second you train one of the skills. Adv5 lets you adapt new situations faster which is why itÆs worth having. Malcanis said ôA marginal and chancy advantage compared to the significant and definite disadvantage.ö The way I see it is itÆs a marginal and chancy advantage to train none adv5 skills as you donÆt know what base skills are needed for T3 or what skills will be T3. ItÆs much better to get adv5 then being able to adapt and train the base skills needed for T3 and T3 itself. T3 is not going be a marginal advantage. Adv5 even without T3 has a clear advantage over not having adv5. ____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
Rosalina Sarinna Aliastra	Posted - 2008.11.28 13:21:00 - [20] I'm not convinced by these lvl 5 extremeists So what if I can save a day or two for a level 5 rank 14 skill? Thats not really going to light my fire you know. Whoopdedo. The game has what... about 8000 days in total, to train every skill to level 5 from zero SP (assuming an unrealistically high avg SP/hour). You're never going to finish skill training, and neither am I. Nobody will unless EVE is never developed anymore from now on. I couldn't much care if those rank 14 or rank 16 skills I do about 3 or 4 times a year take a day or two longer.

Estel Arador Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.28 13:29:00 - [21] Originally by: Pottsey The way I see it is Pilot A with adv5. Pilot B with adv4. After a set amount of time Pilot A finishes T3 skill 1. Pilot B still training skill 1.Pilot A finishes T3 skill 2. While pilot B still training skill 2. Until the point where Pilot A has trained a full skill and moves onto the next one before pilot B has even started the full skill Pilot A has finished. Sure you might only be 2 weeks ahead after 1 year but youÆre contently ahead and pulling further ahead. The difference, after two years, is one (1) rank 8 skill to level V instead of level IV; it is a tiny advantage considering you had to train five (5) rank 3 skills to level V to get it. Originally by: Pottsey Along with lots of base skills which I bet need to be lvl 5. You could get five base skills to level V instead of five advanced learning skills, so training the advanced skills while you still have 'base' skills to learn will put you at a disadvantage in your very own reasoning. Originally by: Pottsey YouÆre at an advantage right from the first second you train one of the skills. That's only correct if you could not have trained something else which might have been directly useful. For an advantage with new ships, you are probably better off training AWU V than any learning skill to V.
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.28 14:05:00 - [22] Originally by: Pottsey T3 is not going be a marginal advantage. Quoting the huge assumption in your thread.
ouroboros trading Gallente Medics On Fire	Posted - 2008.11.28 15:09:00 - [23] Originally by: Rosalina Sarinna lvl 5 extremeists i love that term. 862983? That's Numberwang!
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2008.11.28 15:39:00 - [24] Rosalina Sarinna said ôSo what if I can save a day or two for a level 5 rank 14 skill?ö But a day or two on every skill can equal weeks saved a year which turns to months saved over time. Due to adv5 I am somthing like 6+months perhaps 1 year ahead of my skill plan then where I would be without adv5. Which is why I donÆt like payoff as a way to measure the value of learning skills. Being over 6+months ahead in training has made adv5 skills more then worth it for me. Estel Arador said ö The difference, after two years, is one (1) rank 8 skill to level V instead of level IV; it is a tiny advantage considering you had to train five (5) rank 3 skills to level V to get it.ö I donÆt agree. After 2 years you would be constantly ahead in skills. You would have got dozens of skills days faster perhaps even weeks faster than if you didnÆt have adv5. The advantage is not just 1 rank 8 skill to level V. ItÆs every single skill level you get earlier. If you have decent base skills your going be getting 1 year+ of being ahead. An advantage for a year thatÆs only going to turn into more of an advantage after 1 year is not minor. Or another way to put it. What if you need a year of training before can train T3 skills. If you had adv5 now you would have finished your first T3 skill before the version of you with adv4 had even started his first T3 skills. By the time the adv4 version had trained his first T3 skill your adv5 version has already finished his 2nd skill. Estel Arador said ôYou could get five base skills to level V instead of five advanced learning skills, so training the advanced skills while you still have 'base' skills to learn will put you at a disadvantage in your very own reasoning.!ö So you have a crystal ball that tells you what base skills are needed for T3? What If out of all the 100Æs of skills you pick the wrong base skills to level 5 and T3 donÆt use them? By base skills I donÆt mean the base core skills like power grid or module fitting skills that every pilot should have. I mean the base skills needed before you can train T3 skills. Sure if you are a new player lacking in core skills then perhaps adv5 isnÆt the best option. But every time you have a change of skill plan or you get a new skill like T3 skills then you would have been better of with adv5. Adv5 lets you go down new skill paths faster which is why itÆs worthwhile. We donÆt have crystal galls telling us what we will be doing in 6months or a years time. Unless you are 100% sure youÆre never going buy a new unplanned skill then adv5 is worth getting. ____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
Estel Arador Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.28 16:26:00 - [25] Originally by: Pottsey I donÆt agree. After 2 years you would be constantly ahead in skills. You would have got dozens of skills days faster perhaps even weeks faster than if you didnÆt have adv5. There's no perhaps: it's about two weeks per year, but to get that advantage you first have to spend about eight weeks training the skills to V. The way you're calculating when you're "ahead" seems to forget that initial time investment. Originally by: Pottsey Or another way to put it. What if you need a year of training before can train T3 skills. If you had adv5 now you would have finished your first T3 skill before the version of you with adv4 had even started his first T3 skills. By the time the adv4 version had trained his first T3 skill your adv5 version has already finished his 2nd skill. That's right, after all that time you'll only be like 1 skill ahead, after an eight week investment! (Eight weeks which you could've spent training something useful) Originally by: Pottsey So you have a crystal ball that tells you what base skills are needed for T3? (...) I mean the base skills needed before you can train T3 skills. They're called 'prerequisites'; using the proper term will prevent confusion. Originally by: Pottsey Unless you are 100% sure youÆre never going buy a new unplanned skill then adv5 is worth getting. Or you could train some skills which would actually be useful in your possible alternate future. No matter how you want to twist reality, fact is that the advanced learning skills will only get you more useful skill points if you stick around for at least 3 years after training them.
RedMage Imperial Coalition Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2008.11.28 17:02:00 - [26] Originally by: Astro Glyde I've got all my advanced learns to IV, what's the best path to get them to V? I see a lot of different suggestions, is there a consensus? There is a lot of debate on this, isnt there? Well, a lerning skill at l5 gives ou +1sp to your sp/minute. So you can calculate it out. 768,000sp - 135,765 = 632,235sp to train from L4 to L5. So to get the use out of that skill you train say the adv INT skill to 5. If you only train skills w/ INT being primary, you get 1 extra SP/Minute for having it at 5. so: 632,235 / 60 (minutes in an hr) / 24 (hrs in a day) = 439 days to make back what you spent training it to L5. So doing them all at once, or doing them ALL is kind of odd. I'd leave Presence at L4 unless you are going to max Social/Trade/Corp. However note the primary/secondary attributes on the adv skills. Int: Int / Mem Mem: Mem / Int Per: Per / Wil Wil: Wil / Cha Cha: Cha / Per So you can see there are 2 groups. Int<->Mem and Wil --> Per --> Cha. Train each group separate to max. Int/Mem in order of higher skill. My reccomendation for the other block is: Focus5 --> Clarity 5 and leave out Presence 5. Unneeded.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2008.11.28 17:17:00 - [27] Estel Arador said "There's no perhaps: it's about two weeks per year, but to get that advantage you first have to spend about eight weeks training the skills to V. The way you're calculating when you're "ahead" seems to forget that initial time investment." I am not forgetting the initial skill investment. I am saying the new skills either unplanned that get trained or just new skills that come out, can sometimes have more value than the skills that can be trained instead of adv5. In those cases adv5 is worth getting. Estel Arador said "That's right, after all that time you'll only be like 1 skill ahead, after an eight week investment! (Eight weeks which you could've spent training something useful)" Yes 8 weeks invested to spend 52+weeks being ahead at T3 (). You're not ahead for only 2 weeks, you ahead constantly from the moment you train the new skill. It might not even be 1 skill ahead. It could be 4 or 5 lower rank skills ahead. Having 4 or 5 new skills at lvl 5 due to adv5 can be a massive advantage over having adv4 and not having those skills as you went for other low value skills over adv5. It all depends which skills are more useful the ones you gain from adv5 or the ones you might train instead of adv5. Its not a clear cut case of getting skills instead of adv5 always leaves you with more useful skill points like many people around here say. It doesn't always take 3+years before adv5 is worth having. Sometimes you are better off getting skills instead of adv5. Not ahead by 52weeks. Ahead for 52+ weeks. Estel Arador said "you could train some skills which would actually be useful in your possible alternate future. No matter how you want to twist reality, fact is that the advanced learning skills will only get you more useful skill points if you stick around for at least 3 years after training them." That's wrong and my character is a perfect example. I ended up with more useful skillpoints due to adv5 then if I had trained other skills instead adv5. It didn't take 3years it took months for me to end up with more useful skill points. That's a fact no matter how you look at it. I can agree that's not always the case. But it's wrong going around saying it takes 3 years before they are useful. ____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
Elhina Novae Sky's Edge	Posted - 2008.11.28 20:32:00 - [28] Despite all maths I think it pays of from day 1 the Adv. Learnings are at 5. I meen if you wanna train for something new, you will get to that point faster. Then suddenly you feel the urge for a new ship you will get there abit faster :P ------------ Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: SurrenderMonkey ... There's an Amarr problem? Nothing that can't be solved by more Minmatar nerfs.
Crovax Aestuo	Posted - 2008.11.28 22:10:00 - [29] To be honest, it only pays off if you are sure you are going to play after a year and a half or something (as someone pointed out). Now I do not know, but I am not sure i will still be playing. Getting the basic learning skills to 5 is a reasonable investment, getting the advanced ones to level 5 is only going to pay off if you are really certain you will play this game forever. So, you start with a disadvantage compared to someone who didn't train them, which will over the course of a year+ will turn into a small advantage and grows bigger and bigger. And that is with training skills that have that attribute governing it! I don't know about you guys, but I can not be certain I will still play this game after a year has past and even then there are only so many skills you will want to train in the end. After a certain point for me it will just be for having it. After all you can only fly one ship at a time, and only fit so many modules on that ship.
Molly Mayhem	Posted - 2008.11.29 04:44:00 - [30] Originally by: Pottsey Get all adv learning to lvl 5 ready for T3 then spend 1+year learning T3 and base skills towards it. You could be far better off over someone who doesn't have adv5. Bull****, you won't come out ahead on all of those for at least 5 years. You're better off spending the time to train cybernetics V and slotting all +5's. You get 5 +1's in the time you'd spend training 1 +1 AND you get to slot other advanced implants. This is really a no-brainer question unless you're planning to play the character for 5 more years.



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