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Chi Quan
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.11.22 11:21:00 -
[1]
they still need some look into
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Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Mysa
Mortis Angelus
The Church.
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Posted - 2008.11.22 11:26:00 -
[2]
train for a arazu and there is no problems
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Chi Quan
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.11.22 17:40:00 -
[3]
?? you see to misunderstand, for me celestis _CLASS_ means celestis, arazu and lachesis
and there is a problem
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Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Celedris
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2008.11.22 22:41:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Mysa
train for a falcon and there is no problems
fixt!
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Vanthropy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.23 05:39:00 -
[5]
well now we have some awesome stuff to play with
tracking disruptors-- rock against any turret ship. completely and totally rock
target painters-- rock against small ships and big ships alike and can no longer be loll'd at in fleet... unless you didn't read the patch notes.
Remote sensor damps-- + speed/agility changes makes kiting anything same sized or larger easy peasy. scan res scripts are good for small ship gangs i guess... which is omg the new lame FOTM.
(doesnt actually prove anything about AF's tho unfortunately. if you want proof of that visit Vaurion Infara's killboard :P)
and of course ECM-- works aginst designated target on a chance based system. 4 different modules +1 universal module. actually, aside from their wicked awesome range advantage over all other forms of.. anything.. should be well balanced.
ccP? look at range on that? merin isn't joking when he says he jams from 225km with his falcon alt. it's redic
"SPEED + GANK = SPANK... Spank that ***** up" |
Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.23 09:49:00 -
[6]
Ecm chance based ? Intresting falcon get 100% to jam any frig, 90-100% to jam hac/cruiser., 45% to jam recon, 85% to jam bs. Yep that is realy chance based especially hac and frig part.
Quote:
It's not a good idea to place a Exotic Dancers in a Giant Secure Container. The Exotic Dancers will not survive intact, if transported in such a container.
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Chi Quan
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.11.23 19:05:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Vanthropy
...
Remote sensor damps-- + speed/agility changes makes kiting anything same sized or larger easy peasy. scan res scripts are good for small ship gangs i guess... which is omg the new lame FOTM.
not quite, that's an entire different can of worm. but what about the celsetis+damps lineup? |
rgreat
Gallente
OEG
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.24 01:03:00 -
[8]
Edited by: rgreat on 24/11/2008 01:05:35
Currently Celestis/Lachesis/Arazu need 4 dampers to be partially effective against ONE ship.
Falcon/Rook can be very effective with only 1-2 modules per enemy ship.
So as a result dampers suck compared to ECM.
Does not matter, though, Arazu/Lachesis are quite good WITHOUT dampers.
I just hope CCP will replace damper bonuses for something more useful.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.11.24 03:22:00 -
[9]
Originally by: rgreat
Edited by: rgreat on 24/11/2008 01:05:35
Currently Celestis/Lachesis/Arazu need 4 dampers to be partially effective against ONE ship.
Falcon/Rook can be very effective with only 1-2 modules per enemy ship.
So as a result dampers suck compared to ECM.
Does not matter, though, Arazu/Lachesis are quite good WITHOUT dampers.
I just hope CCP will replace damper bonuses for something more useful.
Like a stronger damp bonus? The concept of damps is sound. The execution is terrible.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Mirei Jun
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Posted - 2008.11.24 03:51:00 -
[10]
If one bothers to train signal supression and use Phased Muons or T2s a ship's range can be dropped to 22% with targetting scripts and three RSDs. The effect is garaunteed, there is no "chance" of it happening. This means even the Keres can be a real thorn in the side of almost any ship class in the game.
The problem here is that ECM is waaay to good and everyone wants RSD to be that good. Well, it shouldn't be. ECM just needs to have its range lowered. There is no counter in the entire game to a ship ECMing you from 200km away. Sensor boosting fails as much as it works and by the time an RSD ship get close enough to the ECM boat to counter its been jammed or blown out of the sky.
So train your skills, hop in a Keres or Arazu (Even a Lach) and **** people off! Just watch out for those viscious little interceptors.
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Dianeces
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.11.24 06:11:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kalintos Tyl
Ecm chance based ? Intresting falcon get 100% to jam any frig, 90-100% to jam hac/cruiser., 45% to jam recon, 85% to jam bs. Yep that is realy chance based especially hac and frig part.
So you mean there's a chance that ECM won't jam a HAC?
Very interesting.....
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Dianeces
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.11.24 06:12:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Dianeces on 24/11/2008 06:12:27
Edit: Awesome doublepost is awesome.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.11.24 07:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Mirei Jun
If one bothers to train signal supression and use Phased Muons or T2s a ship's range can be dropped to 22% with targetting scripts and three RSDs. The effect is garaunteed, there is no "chance" of it happening.
Only within the optimal range of damps (which is low -- and note that none of the damper ships get a range bonus  ).
Outside optimal, damps become chance-based.
As others have noted, damps pretty much suck now, even on the specialist ships. You need a full rack of them to (maybe) shut down one ship. Whee.
Arazu/Lach/Celestis need a hefty boost to their damp bonus. Or the ships need a damp range bonus. Something. As is, there is little reason to fit damps on them -- which is sad, since they are supposedly made for them.
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Raimo
Gallente
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2008.11.24 10:07:00 -
[14]
FWIW I recently trained into a Zu and I'm not planning on skilling up damps anytime soon. I'm using it mostly for the tackle range atm and for that it is great.
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Chi Quan
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.11.24 18:52:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Chi Quan on 24/11/2008 18:52:49
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Outside optimal, damps become chance-based.
exactly, with maxed skills this is 45km, after that, maybe you dampen, maybe you don't. (respective 2 skills to 5 ~ 1 month of training)
which BS has such a low locking range that it either can't cope with the reduced locking value, close in on the ship to kill it inside the reduced locking range or is just unable to warp off? (on a sidenote, if it was tackled, why would you want to dampen it? the tackler can either outtrack the target or, if it is at a range that gets protected by the dampening effect, is simply too far way to tackle. only a frigate class ship is effectively dampened, in which case the tackler + any combat fit cruiser replacement for the arazu/lach/celestis would eradicate said small size craft all the faster.)
the cheaper one, the lach easily costs 60M per fit, wth?
the ships seem totally backwards, the arazu is supposed to be a fleet ship, yet it has one mid less than the lach and is sturdier (1 more low). the lach has the shorter locking time, but can lock more targets at a longer range and lacks the cyno bonus, yet it's supposed to be force recon.
both have cap problems though
the lach gets a bonus to heavy missile launchers, assault launchers and medium hybrids, but not to heavy assault launchers, which would be more in the range class of medium rails.
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Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.11.25 07:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Mirei Jun
Edited by: Mirei Jun on 24/11/2008 08:59:49
If one bothers to train signal supression and use Phased Muons or T2s a ship's range can be dropped to 22% with targetting scripts and three RSDs. The effect is garaunteed, there is no "chance" of it happening. This means even the Keres can be a real thorn in the side of almost any ship class in the game.
The problem here is that ECM is waaay too good and everyone wants RSD to be that good. Well, it shouldn't be. ECM just needs to have its range lowered. There is no counter in the entire game to a ship ECMing you from 200km away. Sensor boosting fails as much as it works and by the time an RSD ship get close enough to the ECM boat to counter its been jammed or blown out of the sky.
So train your skills, hop in a Keres or Arazu (Even a Lach) and **** people off! Just watch out for those viscious little interceptors.
No, the LAST thing I ever want to see is the Falcon's range nerfed. Then only carebears and antipirates could effectively use a Falcon in lowsec, while pirates are forced to do without due to the Falcon unable to jam outside the range of gate guns.
Falcons need their jam strength reduced to that of a Blackbird. Everything else is fine.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Chi Quan
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.12.12 20:51:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
No, the LAST thing I ever want to see is the Falcon's range nerfed...
Falcons need their jam strength reduced to that of a Blackbird. Everything else is fine.
wouln't one having extra jaming power and one having more range be more balanced overall?
anyway, btt. more damp to the damps please.
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Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Captain Vampire
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Posted - 2008.12.13 22:48:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Captain Vampire on 13/12/2008 22:48:38
Either way you see it: Falcon OP or Arazu underpowered, one of the ships are out of line.
It was stated in the Q&A live chat that the balance team did not find the Arazu lacking. So my bet is that the Arazu will pretty much stay the same, and damps for that matter, while the Falcon gets a smack with the nerf bat.
However, beeing an Arazu pilot, I do hope that the Arazu will get some kind of buff, let it be a 7.5% bonus to damps instead of 5%, because the role as a remote sensor damp ship is far from filled in its current state.
Atm, its main advantage is disrupt range range(60km with faction gear) and the ability to fit a probe launcher and a cloak. The Arazu is really a swizz army knife of 0.0 tackling, and I have a feeling that this ship will become a real contester to the FOTM Falcon once local is removed from 0.0 and force recons become what they are designed to do; move undetected. The Arazu could very well be the tackler from hell..Just wait and see 
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Random Womble
Minmatar
Master Miners
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Posted - 2008.12.14 03:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Mirei Jun
If one bothers to train signal supression and use Phased Muons or T2s a ship's range can be dropped to 22% with targetting scripts and three RSDs. The effect is garaunteed, there is no "chance" of it happening.
Only within the optimal range of damps (which is low -- and note that none of the damper ships get a range bonus ).
Outside optimal, damps become chance-based.
As others have noted, damps pretty much suck now, even on the specialist ships. You need a full rack of them to (maybe) shut down one ship. Whee.
Arazu/Lach/Celestis need a hefty boost to their damp bonus. Or the ships need a damp range bonus. Something. As is, there is little reason to fit damps on them -- which is sad, since they are supposedly made for them.
That and if the guy you quoted is talking about a single damp his maths is really really worng anyway since even with 2 damp rigs with script the maximum range reduction of one damp on an arazu (max skilled) is 58.5% give or take for a specialised ship that sucks. Also ECM unlike every other EW (tackling does not count here) as far as i am aware does not suffer from a stacking penalty while webbing (due to the way second web is on the targets allready reduced speed), painting, tracking disruption, damping does.
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Karrade Krise
Galatic P0RN Starz
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Posted - 2008.12.14 20:34:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Mirei Jun
Edited by: Mirei Jun on 24/11/2008 08:59:49
. There is no counter in the entire game to a ship ECMing you from 200km away.
It's called a sniper BS...
guaranteed to make a falc/rook run and hide, even for a short bit it's a valuable counter.
Voluntold, New Webcomic
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Captain Vampire
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Posted - 2008.12.14 21:26:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Karrade Krise
Originally by: Mirei Jun
Edited by: Mirei Jun on 24/11/2008 08:59:49
. There is no counter in the entire game to a ship ECMing you from 200km away.
It's called a sniper BS...
guaranteed to make a falc/rook run and hide, even for a short bit it's a valuable counter.
True, but another falcon might as well do the job more reliably(higher sensor strength), and add more value to the gang than a sniper BS, as it has the ability to jam the crap out of other targets at the same time. Best counter to a falcon is a falcon, all though you wont kill it, but bringing a sniper BS doesn't guarantee the kill either, in particular if the falcon is closer to 250 km.
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Inara Subaka
Caldari
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2008.12.14 22:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Mirei Jun
There is no counter in the entire game to a ship ECMing you from 200km away.
ECM = Electronic Counter Measure
ECCM = Electronic Counter-Counter Measure (not sure exactly what it stands for tbh, I'm guessing)
Point is, ECCM is a module that is a counter to jamming. Just as Sensor Boosters are a counter to Dampeners, just as Tracking Computers are counters to Tracking Disruptors, etc... EVERY form of e-war has a counter, you just choose not to use it.
Is ECM powerful, yes, it is very powerful when used correctly. Is Sensor Dampening powerful, yes, the usage for it is just different. You want to kill a sniper, get a sensor dampener or a tracking disruptor on it and they are SOL as soon as the effect hits. A good sniper will have ECCM fit, and will most likely only be jammed 1 out of 4 cycles (1 ECCM - Gravimetric II on a Rokh is a 47 sensor strength, and the average falcon jam strength is around 12-13 using racial T2 jammers).
Yes, ECM has more range, but they only work on a dice roll. That's the trade off.
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Chi Quan
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.12.15 00:09:00 -
[23]
so much naivety up there 
- EVERY ewar is chance based once outside optimal
- eccm goes to the normally limited mids and does not "counter" ecm, for a counter see warp disruptors/WCS
- damps/t. disruptors have such a low chance to succeed on current sniper ranges, it's better to use ecm (same goes for painters btw, but you can't really use them to counter snipers)
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Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
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