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If is worth it to train the ore processing skills?

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LoBlo Fet Brutor Tribe 8	Posted - 2012.04.08 17:29:00 - [1] - Quote Hello. I have Refining V and Refining efficiency V currently. I was wondering if its worth it to start training the ore refining skills? Right now I can refine at 99.5% efficiency. Do the ore refining skills do anything then? Thanks
Pierre Despereaux Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.04.08 17:36:00 - [2] - Quote yes because it goes toward how much minerals you get from each ore skill you train you train for velspare you get more trit when you refine as a bonus!
Tekota The Freighter Factory 232	Posted - 2012.04.08 17:36:00 - [3] - Quote They're potentially useful in that they're prereqs for using specialist mining crystals if that's your thing. Off the top of my head (and treat this one with a real dollop of salt, it's vague memory only) refining 5, refining efficiency 5 and relevant ore processing skill to just 1 will eradicate refining waste at a 50% NPC station.
Gabbie Tinks 5	Posted - 2012.04.08 17:36:00 - [4] - Quote the ore refining skills are not needed unless your refining at player outposts (0.0 player built stations). Or at a refinery of less than 50%. with proper faction for tax rate and max base refining skills (not mineral specific) you can reach 100% refine at NPC 50% stations in empire.
LoBlo Fet Brutor Tribe 8	Posted - 2012.04.08 17:58:00 - [5] - Quote Thanks for the tips. Gabbie Tinks wrote: the ore refining skills are not needed unless your refining at player outposts (0.0 player built stations). Or at a refinery of less than 50%. with proper faction for tax rate and max base refining skills (not mineral specific) you can reach 100% refine at NPC 50% stations in empire. Thanks for the advice. What is the typical refining rate at a 0.0 POS?
Zifrian Licentia Ex Vereor Intrepid Crossing 239	Posted - 2012.04.08 17:59:00 - [6] - Quote LoBlo Fet wrote: Gabbie Tinks wrote: the ore refining skills are not needed unless your refining at player outposts (0.0 player built stations). Or at a refinery of less than 50%. with proper faction for tax rate and max base refining skills (not mineral specific) you can reach 100% refine at NPC 50% stations in empire. What is the typical refining rate at a 0.0 POS? Minmatar stations get 40%. You need level 4 to get perfect refine (not including the station tax, which is usually 10% and you can't remove that with skills). Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour!
Shawn Bolmara Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2012.04.08 18:09:00 - [7] - Quote Each of the Ore Processing skill trained to 4 is a requirement IF you eventually want to use Ore Compression Blueprints
Vito Tattaglia New Paradigm Inc. Mass Consortium Alliance 27	Posted - 2012.04.09 00:01:00 - [8] - Quote If you need them for mining crystals, yes. If you already get the ore otherwise and just refine it, then no.
Styth spiting Ion Corp. Citex Alliance 16	Posted - 2012.04.09 09:05:00 - [9] - Quote If you want to use the higher quality mining crystals (Arkonor mining crystal II requires refining efficiency V, metallurgy IV) then you will need to higher level refining skills. Same goes with refining Arkonor ores (pretty sure A B C ores require refining efficiency V). If you're just worried about just high sec mining / refining IIRC you will just need refining V (kernite mining crystals II) and refining efficiency III for perfect yield as well as the related mineral processing skill (kernite processing).
Celgar Thurn Department 10 35	Posted - 2012.04.09 10:03:00 - [10] - Quote Not needed for perfect refining in high sec. Only needed for using T2 mining crystals and for refining at POS refineries. If you are a serious miner you will want to train to lvl 4 for any ores that you habitually mine to enable use of T2 mining crystals.
LoBlo Fet Blackstar Inc. 8	Posted - 2012.04.10 06:19:00 - [11] - Quote So most POSs refine at 40% efficiency?
Lemonmint Newton Conglomerate 6	Posted - 2012.04.10 06:58:00 - [12] - Quote LoBlo Fet wrote: So most POSs refine at 40% efficiency? A POS refines at 75% efficiency, and this is not effected by any skills, or changeable in any way (POS module "Intensive Refining Array"). An outpost refines are various levels, depending on it's upgrades (I believe the refining is able to be upgraded, it's been awhile), the Minmatar outpost has the highest refine, up to 50%, if upgraded(?). You will be refining at player controlled outposts if you live in 0.0, you typically won't ever refine at a POS. See http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Outpost for a bit more information about outposts.
LoBlo Fet Blackstar Inc. 8	Posted - 2012.04.10 12:04:00 - [13] - Quote Lemonmint wrote: LoBlo Fet wrote: So most POSs refine at 40% efficiency? A POS refines at 75% efficiency, and this is not effected by any skills, or changeable in any way (POS module "Intensive Refining Array"). An outpost refines are various levels, depending on it's upgrades (I believe the refining is able to be upgraded, it's been awhile), the Minmatar outpost has the highest refine, up to 50%, if upgraded(?). You will be refining at player controlled outposts if you live in 0.0, you typically won't ever refine at a POS. See http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Outpost for a bit more information about outposts. Oh, I see. Thank you for the information. If players never refine at a POS then how do WH corps refine there ore? Are there outpus in WH? Thanks
Zifrian Licentia Ex Vereor Intrepid Crossing 241	Posted - 2012.04.10 12:07:00 - [14] - Quote No outposts in wh space. Pos refine is a maximum of 75%. Wh corps compress and ship out to empire or just ship out. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour!
Threshner Fleetworks ROMANIAN-LEGION 0	Posted - 2012.04.10 13:52:00 - [15] - Quote So as a miner without access to a 0.0 POS I shouldn't bother training my processing skills other than for crystals because there is no where in HS i can turn minerals into more profit by turning it into building materials. Sounds like its more worth it just to sell my raw ore.
Velicitia Open Designs 824	Posted - 2012.04.10 14:34:00 - [16] - Quote Lemonmint wrote: LoBlo Fet wrote: So most POSs refine at 40% efficiency? A POS refines at 75% efficiency, and this is not effected by any skills, or changeable in any way (POS module "Intensive Refining Array"). An outpost refines are various levels, depending on it's upgrades (I believe the refining is able to be upgraded, it's been awhile), the Minmatar outpost has the highest refine, up to 50%, if upgraded(?). You will be refining at player controlled outposts if you live in 0.0, you typically won't ever refine at a POS. See http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Outpost for a bit more information about outposts. they change that then? I thought it was a 40% base refine (like any other refinery), with a 0.75 yield modifier on top of that... but then again, I haven't touched them in years.
LoBlo Fet Blackstar Inc. 8	Posted - 2012.04.10 23:23:00 - [17] - Quote Threshner wrote: So as a miner without access to a 0.0 POS I shouldn't bother training my processing skills other than for crystals because there is no where in HS i can turn minerals into more profit by turning it into building materials. Sounds like its more worth it just to sell my raw ore. I don't understand. If your in highsec then you would have access to a 50% yield station.
Xuixien Stoic Assembly Lines Trade Federation Alliance 20	Posted - 2012.04.11 03:01:00 - [18] - Quote Tekota wrote: They're potentially useful in that they're prereqs for using specialist mining crystals if that's your thing. Off the top of my head (and treat this one with a real dollop of salt, it's vague memory only) refining 5, refining efficiency 5 and relevant ore processing skill to just 1 will eradicate refining waste at a 50% NPC station. A quicker way to get there is Refining V, Refinery Efficiency III and level III in whatever ore you're processing. At least, that's what I have trained on my main and all I lose is the NPC tax, which is down to 1% with standings. (It's eliminated entirely at 6.65 standings I believe). Stoic Assembly Lines is a herd of rabid storks looking for new and experienced players. We mine, build things, and shoot people. We are growing fast and preparing to open low-sec operations. PvP capable Indy/mission pilots inquire within. http://sto1c.blogspot.com/p/home.html
Gabbie Tinks 6	Posted - 2012.04.16 00:16:00 - [19] - Quote POS player owned station parked at a moon with sheilds, you fuel it and anchor mods to it.... you only refine at this if you have NO OTHER CHOICE it is hard coded to no matter what your skills are have a HUGE LOSS I think 75% is the best yield possible if memory servers OUTPOST Player built station...(commonly called an egg) that is a permanent structure in eve. (same as a station in hi sec except that it is owned by players and can be conquered. This is where the skills will increase your yield. NPC station refining under base of 50% here again your skills will pay off.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 609	Posted - 2012.04.16 00:38:00 - [20] - Quote The material specialization skills are REQUIRED for: * Level 3: Tech 1 mining crystals * Level 4: Tech 2 mining crystals * Level 4: Rorqual Compression BPO If you only refine, you can get away without the material specialization skills by using a 2% refining implant (RX-802). It uses slot 8. In hisec you can get away with level 1 + Refinery Efficiency 5 or at most level 2 + Refinery Efficiency 4 in them if you are only refining, as you will only use 50% stations. If you refine in 0.0 at a 35% Minmatar outpost without upgrades, then you want them at 5 and a 4% refining implant (RX-804) for 99.35% yield. A note on POS refining arrays: they are rubbish for anything other than ice. Skills affect them, but they have a yield cap on ore, example: intensive = 75% yield. They are only good for refining ice (Ice Processing 1 = 100% yield).
Kale Eledar Mining and Industrial Services The Irukandji 24	Posted - 2012.04.16 03:30:00 - [21] - Quote Tau Cabalander wrote: A note on POS refining arrays: they are rubbish for anything other than ice. Skills affect them, but they have a yield cap on ore, example: intensive = 75% yield. They are only good for refining ice (Ice Processing 1 = 100% yield). Pretty much this. Refining at a POS is clunky and inefficient. In null, your best bet is a Minmatar station with a friendly corp'alliance/upgrades/etc. or a Rorqual compressing the ore for it to be JF'd back to hisec. The Irukandji is recruiting PVP pilots! APPLY NAO. You won't regret it. See our info at : -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=70811&find=unread
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance 76	Posted - 2012.04.16 15:35:00 - [22] - Quote Vito Tattaglia wrote: If you need them for mining crystals, yes. If you already get the ore otherwise and just refine it, then no. If you mine.. I have to confess that I had hoped that training these all the way up to 5 would make the T2 crystals last longer without breaking (which would have been cool CCP) but it doesn't look lke that's the case (testing seem to show they break at the same rate regardless). [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG]
Jorma Amatin The Scope Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2012.04.17 01:31:00 - [23] - Quote Yes, but mining T1 crystals last for a long time. The T2 versions might give you a higher yield, but they are harder to manufacture and don't give the advantage that I would consider is worth the time to purchase them. Just stick to T1 versions that you can manufacture yourself.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 611	Posted - 2012.04.17 02:14:00 - [24] - Quote Jorma Amatin wrote: Yes, but mining T1 crystals last for a long time. The T2 versions might give you a higher yield, but they are harder to manufacture and don't give the advantage that I would consider is worth the time to purchase them. Just stick to T1 versions that you can manufacture yourself. Note that you can reprocess them before they break and recover all the Nocxium, if you are capable of 100% yield on scrap reprocessing. T2 crystals also have Hypersynaptic Fibers, but those cannot be recovered. I like to reprocess them at 39/40 damage (97.5%) but if you don't check every cycle you might want to remove them earlier.
Scrapyard Bob EVE University Ivy League 872	Posted - 2012.04.17 13:41:00 - [25] - Quote Jorma Amatin wrote: Yes, but mining T1 crystals last for a long time. The T2 versions might give you a higher yield, but they are harder to manufacture and don't give the advantage that I would consider is worth the time to purchase them. Just stick to T1 versions that you can manufacture yourself. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Crystal_damage#Example T1 crystals last about 400 cycles, T2 crystals last about 200 cycles. Assuming a T1 strip = 1.00, T2 strip w/ T1 crystals is a 1.05 multiplier and T2 strip w/ T2 crystals is a 1.135 multiplier. T2 crystals for most ore types (especially the hi-sec ores) sell for below invention cost. They boost your yield without sacrificing tank or cargo space, which is a pretty good deal.
Bugsy VanHalen Society of lost Souls 84	Posted - 2012.04.17 13:59:00 - [26] - Quote LoBlo Fet wrote: Hello. I have Refining V and Refining efficiency V currently. I was wondering if its worth it to start training the ore refining skills? Right now I can refine at 99.5% efficiency. Do the ore refining skills do anything then? Thanks Not sure If what you were actually looking for was answered. Just thought I would point out that I believe you can not get over 99.5% refine with skills. Training the specific ore skills will not get you to 100% but adding a 3% refining implant(slot 8) will bump you to 100%. Then getting your standings with say Caldari Navy (if refining in Jita 4-4) over 6.4 will eliminate the tax giving you full 100% of the ore you refine. Once you get to that point it is actually quite easy to find ore that you can buy and refine at a profit. I thought your question might have been because you were looking to get your refining yield to 100% which is possible.
Kalipoli State War Academy Caldari State 16	Posted - 2012.04.17 15:48:00 - [27] - Quote I took the challenge of training all the ore specific skills to level 5 except for Merc. I would have to say level 5 is useless for all intents and purposes. Level 4 has some nice advantages, the biggest in my mind is the T2 crystals. You can buy them for less than you can make them in most cases and they improve yield enough to make it worthwhile if you are a miner. When its all said and done a hulk with t2 strips and t2 crystals pulls in a ton of ore. In my opinion that is worth it if your skill que isnt already full. the skills do take an inordinate amount of time compared to their benefit but i still see the benefit as worth it. (although i used my 5+ mil in unused skill points from the learning skill nerf to train up the ore spec skills.) my vote would be to train them, at the least it means you can mine more ore. if you're lucky they will nerf them too and you will have some unallocated skill points to use elsewhere. All in all good luck. fly safe.
Scrapyard Bob EVE University Ivy League 872	Posted - 2012.04.17 18:52:00 - [28] - Quote Bugsy VanHalen wrote: Then getting your standings with say Caldari Navy (if refining in Jita 4-4) over 6.4 will eliminate the tax giving you full 100% of the ore you refine. The magic number is 6.67. Some people will say 6.7, but that's usually because they didn't relog or session change after hitting 6.67.
Megos Adriano Stoic Assembly Lines Trade Federation Alliance 7	Posted - 2012.04.17 19:07:00 - [29] - Quote Tau Cabalander wrote: Jorma Amatin wrote: Yes, but mining T1 crystals last for a long time. The T2 versions might give you a higher yield, but they are harder to manufacture and don't give the advantage that I would consider is worth the time to purchase them. Just stick to T1 versions that you can manufacture yourself. Note that you can reprocess them before they break and recover all the Nocxium, if you are capable of 100% yield on scrap reprocessing. T2 crystals also have Hypersynaptic Fibers, but those cannot be recovered. I like to reprocess them at 39/40 damage (97.5%) but if you don't check every cycle you might want to remove them earlier. Amazing, I will do this from now on. Stoic Assembly Lines is seeking more storks for our herd! Pilots of all ages-áand professions welcome to-ábecome part of our family - we have opportunities for all! For more information, send me an EVE-Mail.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 113	Posted - 2012.04.17 19:14:00 - [30] - Quote Tau Cabalander wrote: Reprocessing Base: 37.5% for NPC stations and outposts Does this apply to module processing as well? Reason I ask it that I was told the refining and refinery efficiency skills do not affect module reprocessing, so it seems it should be impossible with scrap metal processing 4 to have no unrecoverable minerals, yet somehow I have 0 loss.

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