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Give all AFs 1 more slot.

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abrasive soap HOMELESS.	Posted - 2008.11.27 03:28:00 - [1] Right now the retribution is the worst af because it cannot point anything. These delusions of the retribution being a dps frigate make no sense as it is out damaged by other assault frigates with 2 to 4 midslots. A frigate that cannot tackle is crap. Remove the retribution's utility high which is nearly useless and add another mid slot. Removing a low slot would make no sense as you need cap mods in the lows to keep the retribution running. CPU may need to be increased so that the retribution can actually fit the scrambler once it receives its other midslot. Adding a slot to every assault frigate makes no sense as none of them need it other than the retribution (maybe the enyo as well, but the retribution is in a far worse position). You shouldn't be forced to fly in a frigate blob to use the retribution.
abrasive soap HOMELESS.	Posted - 2008.11.27 07:45:00 - [2] Edited by: abrasive soap on 27/11/2008 07:46:45 Originally by: xhardxcorex I make no comment about the Min and Gal AFs as I have little/no experience with them. +1 lows on the Harpy and Hawk is out of line with the Caldari's general line of design. The Harpy is fine as is. Explain to me why the Harpy needs an extra low slot. The Hawk only needs an extra low because it's CPU/PG ratio is set for a turret/missile boat hybrid... and it only has bonuses for missiles. The extra low could only be used for a overdrive injector (or a second depending on your fit) or a fitting bonus. Even with decent skills the fitting is tight. Adding an extra low is silly. You can only put a fitting bonus or a speed upgrade of some kind on it. And does that really fix the Hawk's problems? I don't think it does. +1 mid on the Retibution is a bad idea. This stems from the thinking that all frigates should tackle all the time. Closeminded thinking stifles potential. The retribution isn't for tackling. Somehow I don't think CCP intended assualt frigates mainly for tackling but just 'overlooked' one and only put one midslot on it. That's bordering on insulting. Stop looking for a solopwnmobile. Stop looking for an easy answer to every situation. All ships and all (good) fittings are situational. No one and no ship should do well at everything. I'm not asking for 5 heavies like the pre-patch myrmidon I am asking for 1 midslot so I can use a scrambler with a retribution. If anything, the ishkur is overpowered.The retribution is not a mobile dps platform because as of now the ishkur, a tackling assault frigate, out damages the retribution. I cannot see how 190 dps with 60 dps tank and a scrambler is a "solopwnmobile" or "overpowered". The reason why assault frigates are now useful is that interceptors are too slow without a tank now. This role is tackling. Currently, this is what happens in a retribution: a) You try to have some fun and solo pvp. You find a ship and engage it. You then: i)Lose transversal and lose your ship very quickly. ii)Watch in horror as another af or interceptor kites you or out tracks you in its optimal. iii)The ship warps out because you either don't have an afterburner or a scrambler. b)You are forced to blob. You fly with a frig heavy gang. You: i)Do less dps than the vast majority of frigs that have tackle. ii)You go to scout a system and you fail miserably at tackling anything because you have no tackle. Having 2 mid slots is far from overpowered.
abrasive soap HOMELESS.	Posted - 2008.11.27 08:27:00 - [3] Edited by: abrasive soap on 27/11/2008 08:27:36 Originally by: Sokratesz Edited by: Sokratesz on 27/11/2008 08:22:08 Originally by: Dasalt Istgut Honestly the Ishkur, Harpy and Jaguar are fine. The wolf and enyo are in dire need of a mid. The retribution is in dire need of at least one mid, probably two. The hawk just has a lot of problems and probably needs a ground up rethinking. Retribution + 2 mids = BS killer. Retribution + 2 mids = usable? (not counting the mid it has already)
abrasive soap HOMELESS.	Posted - 2008.11.27 08:28:00 - [4] Originally by: Elhina Novae Originally by: Sokratesz Edited by: Sokratesz on 27/11/2008 08:22:08 Originally by: Dasalt Istgut Honestly the Ishkur, Harpy and Jaguar are fine. The wolf and enyo are in dire need of a mid. The retribution is in dire need of at least one mid, probably two. The hawk just has a lot of problems and probably needs a ground up rethinking. Retribution + 2 mids = BS killer. Lies. Boost the smexy Retribution YES
abrasive soap HOMELESS.	Posted - 2008.11.27 08:53:00 - [5] Edited by: abrasive soap on 27/11/2008 09:01:20 Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: abrasive soap Retribution + 2 mids = usable? (not counting the mid it has already) It is already a good AF just not in the way you'd like it to..and he suggested two more mids for a total of three which would be totally out of whack. 1 more mid would make it usable. 2 more would make it overpowered.
abrasive soap HOMELESS.	Posted - 2008.11.27 20:06:00 - [6] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 27/11/2008 14:07:29 Originally by: Chaosmancer It would have been if the retribution was an interceptor pherhaps. There is no DPS role in frig class. It's like making a tackling battleship with low dps and light tank. A frig with one mid is stupid. No ifs nor buts. End of story. Why are people saying that the retribution is a dps ship? The ishkur out damages the retribution and it has 3 mids. The blarpy out damages the retribution and it has 4 mids. The enyo outdamages the retribution and it has 2 mids. The wolf out damages the retribution and it has 2 mids (not to mention while doing better damage types). Screw requiring a tackler I want to solo in a retribution instead of having to use a non-laser ship or bringing tacklers (lol at this notion). Blindly saying that the retribution with 2 mids would be overpowered makes no sense. Quote: Also as someone else said, Assault Frigates aren't designed to tackle and maybe just maybe some people like the ships to cost less than say a Zealot for PvP and add DPS to a gang? Maybe you should get an arbitrator, omen or harbinger then. Also those have midslots unlike the retribution. People aren't even stating why the retribution would be overpowered.
abrasive soap HOMELESS.	Posted - 2008.11.27 22:38:00 - [7] Edited by: abrasive soap on 27/11/2008 22:39:17 Originally by: Cmndr Griff Originally by: abrasive soap Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 27/11/2008 14:07:29 Originally by: Chaosmancer It would have been if the retribution was an interceptor pherhaps. There is no DPS role in frig class. It's like making a tackling battleship with low dps and light tank. A frig with one mid is stupid. No ifs nor buts. End of story. Why are people saying that the retribution is a dps ship? The ishkur out damages the retribution and it has 3 mids. The blarpy out damages the retribution and it has 4 mids. The enyo outdamages the retribution and it has 2 mids. The wolf out damages the retribution and it has 2 mids (not to mention while doing better damage types). Screw requiring a tackler I want to solo in a retribution instead of having to use a non-laser ship or bringing tacklers (lol at this notion). Blindly saying that the retribution with 2 mids would be overpowered makes no sense. Quote: Also as someone else said, Assault Frigates aren't designed to tackle and maybe just maybe some people like the ships to cost less than say a Zealot for PvP and add DPS to a gang? Maybe you should get an arbitrator, omen or harbinger then. Also those have midslots unlike the retribution. People aren't even stating why the retribution would be overpowered. Your Ishkur has to get very close for its full dps, where as I can run away and pound you with Scorch while tanking your drones. It has range, something the really hard hitting AFs and Inties don't, meaning while you guys are will inevitably get webbed/scrammed to a snails pace in your effort to deliver 200-300dps, the retribution continues on 'safely' delivering around 150. If something does manage to get close, load up the Amarr Navy, switch on the repairer, overload and prey. I definitely wouldn't say no to a 4th bonus or more damage though that's for sure. The retribution can't kite because it can't dictate range. The ishkur is faster than the retribution and will likely have a web fit. Not to mention that the ishkur could kite the retribution at 20km while doing 100 dps. Be serious, the range bonus means nothing when your opponent is only honor scrammed.

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