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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
29
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 14:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
It's definitely good to communicate with your customers and put things to rest when required, and this issue did require that for a long time.
Still, pretty disappointing in an already long line of disappointments.
P.S. However, CCP really doesn't need that thread to see the customer questions that urgently need definite answers. There's still time to post those blogs. |

Tethys Atreides
The Audacity of Huge
26
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 14:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
Guard,
This kind of attitude will go a long way towards regaining the trust of the community. Please impress this on your co-workers.
Thank you. |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration
40
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 14:19:00 -
[33] - Quote
I'm very unimpressed.
When I'm at work and I don't get a project done, I stay late and finish it.
Maybe I should look for an easier job.
meh. ALL GëívGëí Ships | Odd-áGëívGëí Items | <-- Links to showInfo in-game |

Florestan Bronstein
United Engineering Services
35
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 14:30:00 -
[34] - Quote
Maybe a compromise could be to get answers for a fixed number of questions with the selection of questions being determined by some crowd sourcing effort?
e.g. just make a "ask a question thread" and then get answers to the 30 questions which have received most likes over a certain period of time.
maybe add some restrictions to make sure not one team of devs has to answer all questions...
|

Drifnir
Mnemonic Enterprises Dark Matter Coalition
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 14:41:00 -
[35] - Quote
Thank you for an honest and frank answer. Wish this kind of communication was the text-book example from CCP.
When you fail (or in this case, fall victim of your own succes) at least be open with us and not sweep it under the rug, like so many other devs have done in the past. The disappearing 5th T3 sub springs to mind. When you are honest with us like this, you will engender significantly less anger and disappointment, than the usual PR tripe.
Good on you Guard....tell the other Devs that THIS is how it's done. |

Raid'En
Apprentice Innovations
24
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 14:58:00 -
[36] - Quote
at least we finally got an answer.
also about "promises" and CCP ; (this is not about you only Guard, don't take it as personal)
the biggest problem is not that they don't keep them the biggest problem is that they don't communicate about issues when you realise you may not be able to keep them
most of the time we have to wait, without any infos. seems it won't happen, but no one tell us, so we don't know at all if it will be a bit late, a lot late, or cancelled. so please, when you see things are not going well say it.
if for example CCP say that "X will be released on september" and that on the 30th august we have no news it's terrible. if however at the 15th of august you say "got issues - give basic infos - and we won't make it in time, we think it will be done in october but what you do most of the time is doing nothing. then only one month after we got confirmation it won't happen
it has been said a lot of time ; we need more communication.
if something **** up say it quickly, don't wait the last moment to say it. it will be accepted way better if you say before it may have issues than by saying nothing until the ultimatum arrives. |

dgastuffz
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 15:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
"We answered 347 questions out of the roughly 1100 we received,"
and how many answered about FW i would say you fail |

Abrazzar
92
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 15:04:00 -
[38] - Quote
I request this thread to be archived as a prime example on "how to communicate failure of delivering promised performance without inciting dissent in your customers" for review for the other devs and CCP upper management.
Admitting defeat is the first step to victory. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |

Zagam
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
67
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 15:04:00 -
[39] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:Friends,
You all remember the GÇPDevs answer everything threadGÇ£ (I know for a fact that some of you do at least) that we started this spring, with the intention of GÇô as the title subtly hints at - answering every question therein.
As a brand new Community Developer, I started this project with the full intention of pushing it through no matter what. Then summer came with the final Incarna sprints, the Incarna launch, and all that followed. The summer period was extremely hard in terms of securing any GÇPextraGÇ£ time from developers to spend on answering questions from the thread, and itGÇÿs not going to get any easier. Answering this amount of questions publicly takes a lot longer than many would expect because often you get second thoughts about details that you then want to research, or you want to polish the wording so it-¦s clear and understandable for what you intend it to convey.
Long story short, I grossly understimated the time it would take to finish answering all these questions, and overestimated the man hours I would be able to secure. And I learned a few valuable lessons along the way. One of them being never to use the word GÇPpromiseGÇ£ unless you KNOW the result.
It is time to step up and admit defeat and apologize - we will not be moving this thread over from the old forums. Statistically speaking the project was two thirds of a failure. We answered 347 questions out of the roughly 1100 we received, despite repeated attempts at securing manpower. I can only hope that the questions we did answer made all of this at least somewhat worth it for some of you.
WeGÇÿll go back to the drawing board and figure out different ways to do similar things in the future. To those that took part, waited, and never got what they came for, I humbly offer my most sincere apologies.
-CCP Guard
Thank you for taking the time to answer 347 of the questions!
Also, kudos do you for stepping up to the plate and admitting that the tsunami of questions was more than you planned for, and apologizing. Takes some courage doing that anywhere in business (and especially on these forums...)
+1 |

Potato IQ
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 15:12:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:Xtraneous wrote:CCP Guard - I appreciate the work you put into this even if it wasn't completely successful.
Would you consider a more manageable version in the future? Possibly a short window of time for asking questions or a finite number of questions you answer each month? Something like that sounds more doable for sure :). One of the mistakes I made was to not put a limit on questions per person. Another thing I'm thinking is something where we limit the range of questions, i.e. have a fairly limited topic to focus on each time. We'll see.
Limited topic likely easier as curtailing the amount of questions per person will fail because thereGÇÖs going to be some that have more, and the best, that must be put forward However itGÇÖs done, letGÇÖs at least ensure it returns in some format
btw, are you purposely going for the Eve Dev blue eye mask to protect your identity?
|

Gripen
20
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 15:41:00 -
[41] - Quote
Just my two cents: among the thousand of submitted questions there were a lot of joke\stupid\spam questions, duplicate questions, angry stuff like "when are you going to boost my ship" and questions which were already answered in recent blogs/interviews/dev forum posts.
If you could have somebody to filter out that junk you would probably be able to cut 90% of the noise. As you do not really listen for CSM ideas (god bless you don't ) and there are not much need for them now this could be a task they can handle. |

Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
47
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 15:45:00 -
[42] - Quote
Myxx wrote:At least you admit you screwed up.
This
and from what was answered I'm still pretty happy  The Drake is a Lie |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration
46
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 15:53:00 -
[43] - Quote
Gripen wrote:Just my two cents: among the thousand of submitted questions there were a lot of joke\stupid\spam questions, duplicate questions, angry stuff like "when are you going to boost my ship" and questions which were already answered in recent blogs/interviews/dev forum posts. If you could have somebody to filter out that junk you would probably be able to cut 90% of the noise. As you do not really listen for CSM ideas (god bless you don't  ) and there are not much need for them now this could be a task they can handle.
Do this CCP ^
There weren't that many UNIQUE questions.
...or are you quitters, CCP?
ALL GëívGëí Ships | Odd-áGëívGëí Items | <-- Links to showInfo in-game |

Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 16:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
To CCP Guard,
While I appreciate your honest explanation for what happened, I don't appreciate it took 3 months or so to arrive.
I am very disappointed with the general malaise regarding communicating with the players these days. You're all so afraid of making a mistake communicating that you don't talk to us players.
You'll probably be taking a hit personally now for what is in essence a wider problem at CCP. The fact developers need to pencil in "time", require almost everything outgoing to be vetted and don't have enough general knowledge of the game is symptomatic of the big-time corporate cancer spreading at CCP.
Back in the day Devs would have chimed in from all over in their lunch hours etc and oh my god! maybe even got some things wrong!
Now it is so bureaucratic at CCP everything comes across as an un-enthused, stale PR schpiel. I enjoy much of the game still, but I am finding it harder and harder as time goes by (after 6 years playing) to forgive your management for trying to subdue (or professionalise) one of its best selling/retention points - which was that you felt the Devs were just enthusiastic players building a game they themselves dreamed of playing - free flowing communication and a bit of banter with Devs taken with a pinch of salt was key to that.
It saddens me an opportunity for CCP to show your continued enthusiasm for the game and unique communication style has been missed. Very disappointed with most of the wishy-washy answers we did get, and those we will never get.
Cheers, Vyk. |

Othran
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 16:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:Statistically speaking the project was two thirds of a failure.
Not trolling (honest) but that sounds like most of Eve these days matey  |

Richard Aiel
Umbra Exitium Order Of The Unforgiving
5
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 16:52:00 -
[46] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Richard Aiel wrote:At least this is pretty much the admission that they're working more on WoD an Dust than EVE related things How the dancing frak did you arrive at THAT conclusion from this thread?
Yeah cause Im the ONLY one that came to that decision amirite?
J Kunjeh wrote:Such a shame, that was an awesome thread and idea. I hope time can be found to resurrect it when WoD and Dust aren't being time-hogs.
This statement/philosophy should be grilled into ALL CCP employees (especially those at the top) at EVERY CCP meeting from here to eternity:
"Long story short, I grossly understimated the time it would take to finish answering all these questions, and overestimated the man hours I would be able to secure. And I learned a few valuable lessons along the way. One of them being never to use the word GÇPpromiseGÇ£ unless you KNOW the result." "If the unfaithful would rage-quit, let them do so. And let not the gates of New Eden strike them 'pon the ass ere they leave." Quoth the Hillmar |

Cipher Jones
40
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 16:54:00 -
[47] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:Friends,
You all remember the GÇPDevs answer everything threadGÇ£ (I know for a fact that some of you do at least) that we started this spring, with the intention of GÇô as the title subtly hints at - answering every question therein.
As a brand new Community Developer, I started this project with the full intention of pushing it through no matter what. Then summer came with the final Incarna sprints, the Incarna launch, and all that followed. The summer period was extremely hard in terms of securing any GÇPextraGÇ£ time from developers to spend on answering questions from the thread, and itGÇÿs not going to get any easier. Answering this amount of questions publicly takes a lot longer than many would expect because often you get second thoughts about details that you then want to research, or you want to polish the wording so it-¦s clear and understandable for what you intend it to convey.
Long story short, I grossly understimated the time it would take to finish answering all these questions, and overestimated the man hours I would be able to secure. And I learned a few valuable lessons along the way. One of them being never to use the word GÇPpromiseGÇ£ unless you KNOW the result.
It is time to step up and admit defeat and apologize - we will not be moving this thread over from the old forums. Statistically speaking the project was two thirds of a failure. We answered 347 questions out of the roughly 1100 we received, despite repeated attempts at securing manpower. I can only hope that the questions we did answer made all of this at least somewhat worth it for some of you.
WeGÇÿll go back to the drawing board and figure out different ways to do similar things in the future. To those that took part, waited, and never got what they came for, I humbly offer my most sincere apologies.
-CCP Guard
Quote:Wish this kind of communication was the text-book example from CCP.
I wish it wasn't.
You must mean a different CCP?
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |

Sexy Moped
The Drones Club
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 16:59:00 -
[48] - Quote
Well at least you answered a portion of the questions, thanks. your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes
-The Mittani 17.07.2011 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1549785&page=6#158 |

cyllan anassan
DEUS EX 1
9
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 17:00:00 -
[49] - Quote
fine but where can i read those 300 plus aswers?
please dont tell me i have to search whole website...... |
|

CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
78

|
Posted - 2011.09.12 17:04:00 -
[50] - Quote
cyllan anassan wrote:
fine but where can i read those 300 plus aswers?
please dont tell me i have to search whole website......
Here is the thread with the answers we managed to get out. |
|

Richard Aiel
Umbra Exitium Order Of The Unforgiving
5
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 17:04:00 -
[51] - Quote
Vyktor Abyss wrote:To CCP Guard,
While I appreciate your honest explanation for what happened, I don't appreciate it took 3 months or so to arrive.
I am very disappointed with the general malaise regarding communicating with the players these days. You're all so afraid of making a mistake communicating that you don't talk to us players.
You'll probably be taking a hit personally now for what is in essence a wider problem at CCP. The fact developers need to pencil in "time", require almost everything outgoing to be vetted and don't have enough general knowledge of the game is symptomatic of the big-time corporate cancer spreading at CCP.
Back in the day Devs would have chimed in from all over in their lunch hours etc and oh my god! maybe even got some things wrong!
Now it is so bureaucratic at CCP everything comes across as an un-enthused, stale PR schpiel. I enjoy much of the game still, but I am finding it harder and harder as time goes by (after 6 years playing) to forgive your management for trying to subdue (or professionalise) one of its best selling/retention points - which was that you felt the Devs were just enthusiastic players building a game they themselves dreamed of playing - free flowing communication and a bit of banter with Devs taken with a pinch of salt was key to that.
It saddens me an opportunity for CCP to show your continued enthusiasm for the game and unique communication style has been missed. Very disappointed with most of the wishy-washy answers we did get, and those we will never get.
Cheers, Vyk.
Funny thing about this post perfectly shows why the players truely dont want transparency. They give us transparency, we give them flames lol
"If the unfaithful would rage-quit, let them do so. And let not the gates of New Eden strike them 'pon the ass ere they leave." Quoth the Hillmar |

EvilBunny DeathSpore
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 17:07:00 -
[52] - Quote
you know i was upset that my question was not answered but after reading the apology i am not soo much anymore... looks like indirectly my questions are being addressed so that is good enough for me for now...
all i want now are results which i have been told some wont be seen for 9 months...
well ccp you have time to either give birth to a beautiful fixed baby or some sort of grotesque monster... |

Richard Aiel
Umbra Exitium Order Of The Unforgiving
5
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 17:14:00 -
[53] - Quote
cyllan anassan wrote:
fine but where can i read those 300 plus aswers?
please dont tell me i have to search whole website......
Ill help tho
"Cyno Graphics A new cyno graphic is in the pipeline along with most of the other effects in game. ItGÇÖs very high up the priority list and will be one of the first effects we change once the new effects artist is up to speed. ThatGÇÖs right, we have a new effects artist who is going to do amazing things."
Soon
"Engine Contrails These were being worked on this release but most likely wonGÇÖt make it in for the Summer expansion because there is more work to be done. If I had to guess IGÇÖd say they will go live during a month ending in GÇ£berGÇ¥. "
Soon
"WiS running around There will be GÇ£action objectsGÇ¥ in Incarna that can spawn UI windows but all your usual windows like Market, Fitting, Undock etc. will still be available from the Neocom of Station Services buttons."
Im I think this says Soon but it doesnt even seem to say that
"Ship Painting Yes we were spying on you when you were playing Wing Commander and we have the VHS tapes to prove it. As far as ship skins weGÇÖre working on it. Each ship needs to be upgraded to the new shader version as mentioned in this blog: http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=732" Looks neat but the dev blog pointed to is from last year
"I'll take some ones I can speak with authority to.
Originally by: Nirnias StirrumWill i ever find true love?
Only when you are ready for it... and when you stop dating those people your momma warned you about.
Originally by: Pookie McPookDoes my bum look big in this?
The EVE Online forums adds 15 pounds, it's an optical illusion--you are exactly the same mass as before.
Originally by: maniduAren't there more urgent things to do (e.g. developing the game, fixing stuff,...) than spending hours and hours on answering the numerous questions that this thread will contain after a few days?
There are things to do yes, but ventures like this are nonetheless extremely important, at least in my opinion.
Originally by: Raquel Smith* Why does my Quafe taste funny?
Probably because you used it as a mixer? Or I used it as a mixer and didn't tell you? (Someone else will address the others you asked)"
helpful lol "If the unfaithful would rage-quit, let them do so. And let not the gates of New Eden strike them 'pon the ass ere they leave." Quoth the Hillmar |

Katrina Bekers
Fighters Squadron
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 17:30:00 -
[54] - Quote
Thank you, CCP Guard, for your straight honesty.
You knew you'd probably be "burned at the stake" (yes, CCP Soundwave, I'm looking at you!), and still had the guts to undock knowing that the station was heavily bubbled and camped with angry hostiles.
It's said that optimists see the glass half full, the pessimists see it half empty, and the engineers know the glass is twice the size it needs to be.
So, rather than 2/3 failure (or 1/3 success), I'd rather think the task completion was beyond your control.
In this day and age, CCP has not (only) a problem of success/failure ratio. We came to expect glorious failures from you guys - from boot.ini's to melting GPUs. The wondering on next patch isn't "it will break something?" anymore, but rather "I will be able to play decently again how many weeks after the next coding disaster?". In a wicked way, it's even amusing.
And yet, CCP has not entirely understood that the technical prowess (rather, its absence!) or promise to Deliver Excellence (buzzword detector is going off-scale!) are not their main concern. Their main concern SHOULD be the loss of trust and the abysmal job on communicating with your playerbase.
CCP Guard faced the forum squarely in the eyes, and came out admitting failure to deliver: the fate of that answers thread is a sad one, and I mourn the answers I won't get to my (many! maybe too many!) questions. Yet, the appreciation of his desire to communicate and not childishly hide behind a finger is what is largely appreciated by most posters.
There is a lesson in this thread. I dearly hope it's learned. {{ Inject code here }} |

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
34
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 17:43:00 -
[55] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:Xtraneous wrote:CCP Guard - I appreciate the work you put into this even if it wasn't completely successful.
Would you consider a more manageable version in the future? Possibly a short window of time for asking questions or a finite number of questions you answer each month? Something like that sounds more doable for sure :). One of the mistakes I made was to not put a limit on questions per person. Another thing I'm thinking is something where we limit the range of questions, i.e. have a fairly limited topic to focus on each time. We'll see.
How about a submit your questions Forum that plucks out the most "liked" questions every month and forwards them on to you, then you answer the ones you can.
|

Viqer Fell
Sicarius. Legion of The Damned.
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 18:18:00 -
[56] - Quote
Thank you for the apology.
It is a sad reflection on how far CCP's reputation has fallen that I never expected to see answers to my question and that I never expected to see the task completed.
My thoughts pretty much mirror what Vyk posted. |

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
77
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 18:19:00 -
[57] - Quote
Well sure you admited defeat but the war is not over CCP Guard.
You need to light up the brofist and call for back up. CCP has 200 devs right? Call for back up, ask for help from any dev that can answer a question to try to answer one or two.
There is a great saying in eve, always outnumbered but never outgunned.
So bust out some major dev hacks from the entire staff from iceland to the uk, to atlanta to shanghai! Blob them and win! |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
20
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 18:23:00 -
[58] - Quote
Obsidian Hawk wrote:Well sure you admited defeat but the war is not over CCP Guard.
You need to light up the brofist and call for back up. CCP has 200 devs right? Call for back up, ask for help from any dev that can answer a question to try to answer one or two.
There is a great saying in eve, always outnumbered but never outgunned.
So bust out some major dev hacks from the entire staff from iceland to the uk, to atlanta to shanghai! Blob them and win!
i think he tried that but there is a questionaire going around ccp HQ asking if those $1000 jeans make ccp zulu butt look big... Pretty much this has taken up all thier time and they dont have any to do something usefull like PR...
|

Phelan Votronski
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 18:35:00 -
[59] - Quote
Thanks for an honest answer. If only Hilmar had the balls that you have. |

LOL56
First Flying Wing Inc ROMANIAN-LEGION
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 18:38:00 -
[60] - Quote
Thank you for this, Guard. Although its sad to see the thread fall through its good to hear an honest admission of failure. hopefully the thread can be revived in some more manageable format in the future. |
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