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On the State of Learning in the Empire

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Aldrith Shutaq Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.11.27 23:58:00 - [1] Edited by: Aldrith Shutaq on 28/11/2008 00:01:58 Today it has come to our attention that Lord Ardishapur has appointed a man of interesting chatacter to head his new university. His views of the ideal state of the Empire facinate me, as they represent a sentiment that I consider quite opposing to common sense. I have listened to his lecture in audio recording, "Scriptural Evidence Supporting the Continuing Servitude of Udorians, Ealurians, Khanid, Ni-Kunni, and Minmatar", and must say I found myself rapt at his every word. Filled with a funny desire to kick my console into the station bulkhead, but rapt nonethless. But of course, I am what he would say, "an ignorant little Ni-Kunni" so perhaps I am not the best person to comment. scoffs with bitter sarcasm I feel compelled to defend all non-Amarrians, despite their allegiance, but that would take an entire lecture comparable in size to the provost's work. I could also go on for a while and denounce the man personally, but that would not be constructive, prudent, or very dignified, so intead I open the topic to debate. What I am most interested in at the moment is how others in the Empire are reacting to this news, and where we Amarrian loyalist capsuleers should stand in this matter. For now nothing has happened; for all we know he could prove to be a very good administrator and not bring his personal feelings into his work. However, I believe this could be a major point of contention within the Empire if he takes actions to anger the non-Amarrian majority. Thought? Concerns? Ethno-centric rants?
Silver Night Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2008.11.28 00:17:00 - [2] I'm not terribly clear on the Amarr religion, but do you or don't you believe that those of true Amarr heritage are the chosen of God? -------------- The Clown Man. GLS Mr. State Caldari Patriot. Sansha's Nation Supporter
Aldrith Shutaq Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.11.28 00:22:00 - [3] It's a matter of interpretation of the Scriptures, but no, I do not buy into that idea. The Scriptures merely state near the beginning that the Amarr people were chosen to bring the word of God to the galaxy, but nothing so specific is mentioned later. It does not imply inherent superiority of the Amarrian people, only that they were given a task by God.
Rakhain	Posted - 2008.11.28 03:53:00 - [4] I find it interesting to hear that news. A lot of odd things are going on in the Amarr empire. From the odd actions of Kador to the silence regarding the Ammatar. One would wonder, what is it exactly Jamyl is doing? I'm not usually one for conspiracies, but I had to voice the peculiar goings on none the less.
Eran Mintor Valklear Guard	Posted - 2008.11.28 21:12:00 - [5] Edited by: Eran Mintor on 28/11/2008 21:13:55 The state of learning in the Empire...hmm... Is the correct term "learning"? I was pretty sure it is closer to "brainwashing" but then again I never went to school there. However, when you give the flag to individuals as biased and pious as Mr. Ardishapur (and I don't mean pious in the good way) you are bound to be led astray.
Garion Avarr Amarr Zero Zero Traders YTMND.	Posted - 2008.11.28 21:52:00 - [6] Edited by: Garion Avarr on 28/11/2008 21:54:07 Originally by: Silver Night I'm not terribly clear on the Amarr religion, but do you or don't you believe that those of true Amarr heritage are the chosen of God? Choosen to help raise others up to our status, yes. Our superiority is supposed to be only temporary. Obviously Chancellor Tanar believes that this status has not yet been achieved by anyone yet. I do however quite disagree with him on this point. Our disagreement on this point does give me some concern regarding his appointment, yes, but I will withhold judgement for now.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.28 22:01:00 - [7] Let us consider Lord Ardishapur's own views on the matter, as reported in the news: Ardishapur defended his selection of Tanar as chancellor. "Tanar is overzealous in expressing his views regarding Amarrian purity. His views do not impact my own, nor will they impact the viewpoint of the school itself. However, I believe he is an excellent choice to administer the functions of the Institute. He has far more experience than many other candidates in the position. His position is an administrative one, not as a lecturer or professor. And I have yet to hear of any displeasure on the part of the non-True Amarrian nobility that reside within my domain. Considering that the school is primarily for residents of my space, I would only reconsider if they spoke out about it. I do not expect that to happen." As such, I do not believe that the lesser Amarrian races have anything to fear from the Tanar's appointment. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Shadow Company Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.11.28 22:18:00 - [8] Originally by: Rodj Blake As such, I do not believe that the lesser Amarrian races have anything to fear from the Tanar's appointment. While Ardishapur is, as far as I know, not a despot in the manner that Articio Kor-Azor was before the intervention of the Speakers of Truth an inherent weakness in the mostly superior Amarrian system has always been that channels for referring information back to the decision makers are highly dependent upon the ruling style of the Holder in question. This is a strength in the case when we're dealing with a ruler of the Amarrian ideal (fairly close to the gallente concept of an "enlightened despot" who is under the amarrian system free to effectively and impartially implement rule without frivolous and selfish objections), but not all rulers are (even inside the Amarrian Empire). There are methods for correcting obvious misrule (as demonstrated by the Speakers of Truth intervention against Lord Kor-Azor) but those are brutal and reserved as a last line of defense. The Ardishapur have a reputation for fairness, but they also have a reputation for extreme and overzealous interpretations of Scripture, and there isn't a single holder family that isn't known for its great political savvy. As such there is (among Amarrian progressives) always cause for worry when an Ardishapur appoints a religious extremist to an important position. They may not have the same views, but in a primarily theological empire an appointment of an official is always an indirect support of his religious standpoints. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn.
Sepherim Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.11.29 03:01:00 - [9] Indeed Mr Delateriel, and this could certainly cause some major friction inside the Empire. Without the chance for the minor races to obtain a same political position to the Amarr, even if we aren't His Chosen, there is no sense in Slavery because its Enlightenment isn't taken by society too. The Lesser Races have been in the forefront of the battlefields, we have done the works that keep the Amarr with time to rule and think, we have kept the economy and the merchant systems functioning properly. The Tash-Murkon even became one of the Heir families after the betrayal of Lord Khanid. Now, this man can threaten all that has been achieved. True, he will not lecture, but as the head of this organization, he might be in the position to decide who will or won't be accepted as a student, and that can be an important barrier for the future generations of the Lesser Races. And that is something that shouldn't be allowed, as it can tip of the perfect balance in which the Empire is at present. Ordo Quaesitoris Forum
Esna Pitoojee Amarr Heavily Utilized Mechanic Mayhem	Posted - 2008.11.30 05:39:00 - [10] I won't go on a rant about how foolish and short-sighted the professor is. It would be giving him to much credit. I'll leave it at my completely disagreeing with his viewpoint, in every way possible. ---------------------------------------------- Say "Amarr ships suk, lol." I dare you. My statments do not represent the opinions, views, or actions of my corp.
Wanoah Minmatar Msana Foundation	Posted - 2008.12.01 22:29:00 - [11] It's not so long ago that there was at least a small degree of cross-pollination of ideas in academia. There were at least a few visiting lecturers allowed to teach at Amarrian universities. I thought that this was something that at least offered a small ray of hope for the future. Events of the last few years have no doubt put paid to such things, however. I tend to think that one of the best ways of solving the Amarrian problem is for the University of Caille to take over the running of the Royal Amarr Institute. Progress might be slow at first, but I'm sure that it would pay dividends in the long term.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Shadow Company Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.12.01 23:42:00 - [12] Originally by: Wanoah I tend to think that one of the best ways of solving the Amarrian problem is for the University of Caille to take over the running of the Royal Amarr Institute. Progress might be slow at first, but I'm sure that it would pay dividends in the long term. If you by "progress" mean "progress of the Gallentean cultural invasion". They might not take over the minmatar republic by force, but you bet they won't be happy until everyone in the galaxy is thinking filthy gallentean thoughts, with crass consumerism being the only remaining way of life and the concept of ethics (personal ethics and business ethics alike) being buried somewhere along the road and the tombstone reading "killed by profiteering". The Amarr Empire will go it's own way. The minmatar might accept being subsumed into the gallentean "cultural hegemony", but the Amarr Empire will not. Not now, not tomorrow, not ever. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.12.02 01:44:00 - [13] Originally by: Esna Pitoojee I won't go on a rant about how foolish and short-sighted the professor is. It would be giving him to much credit. I'll leave it at my completely disagreeing with his viewpoint, in every way possible. I have to agree. Until now, I didn't think that it was possible that someone could make PIE look like a bunch of liberal, free-thinking individuals. But that man managed it.
Wanoah Minmatar Msana Foundation	Posted - 2008.12.02 02:37:00 - [14] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel If you by "progress" mean "progress of the Gallentean cultural invasion". Sure, why not. The Amarrians are great believers in the paternal approach to other cultures. Maybe it's time they were civilised by their betters.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.12.02 03:09:00 - [15] Originally by: Wanoah Sure, why not. The Amarrians are great believers in the paternal approach to other cultures. Maybe it's time they were civilised by their betters. I very much support this idea. ----- CEO, Mixed Metaphor Dance Commander
Drakonus Laerdon Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.02 03:36:00 - [16] Originally by: Wanoah Sure, why not. The Amarrians are great believers in the paternal approach to other cultures. Maybe it's time they were civilised by their betters. I'm sure your Gallentean masters approve of you, slave. Go collect your treat for the day. --------------- Non Nobis, Domine, Non Nobis, Sed nomini tuo da gloriam.
The Bookseller Amarr The Khanid Bookstore	Posted - 2008.12.02 05:48:00 - [17] As a proud citizen of Khanid Kingdom and intimately involved in promoting and facilitating learning there, your message intrigued me. While among the Amarr universities our main relation is with the Hedion university, I do feel some concern about this appointment as well. Yonis Ardishapur has stated that his (Derak Tanar's) views will not impact the viewpoint of the school. And you express the hope that his personal feelings will not affect his work. However, a faith that does not express itself in practical life is not much of a faith, and since his opinions are clearly a part of his religion, it would be surprising if his work would not be a reflection of his faith. As such we share your concerns for the future of free learning in the new Ardishapur Institute of Education.
Gabriel Darkefyre Minmatar Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2008.12.02 09:30:00 - [18] Originally by: Sepherim Now, this man can threaten all that has been achieved. True, he will not lecture, but as the head of this organization, he might be in the position to decide who will or won't be accepted as a student, and that can be an important barrier for the future generations of the Lesser Races. And that is something that shouldn't be allowed, as it can tip of the perfect balance in which the Empire is at present. I'd be less worried about his ability to decide who could become a student and more worried about his ability to decide who can become Faculty Staff. You may find over time that the teaching staff, and thus the Curriculum, becomes more Extremist in it's viewpoint and those teaching staff with more moderate views losing their Tenure with the Institute in the process. I only hope, for the sake of all the Amarr Peoples, that there are sufficient safeguards in place to prevent such a scenario from coming true.
Scagga Laebetrovo Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2008.12.02 15:21:00 - [19] Edited by: Scagga Laebetrovo on 02/12/2008 15:23:15 Originally by: Wanoah Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel If you by "progress" mean "progress of the Gallentean cultural invasion". Sure, why not. The Amarrians are great believers in the paternal approach to other cultures. Maybe it's time they were civilised by their betters. One is led to the impression that you think simply stating false views makes them true and worthwhile. The word 'culture' has no place near the word 'Gallentean', philistine.
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.12.02 15:56:00 - [20] Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo One is led to the impression that you think simply stating false views makes them true and worthwhile. The word 'culture' has no place near the word 'Gallentean', philistine. HAH! Pilot, the whole reason the Caldari and Gallente are as as hostile toward each other as they are is the fact that the Caldari are convinced that the Gallente are trying to impose their culture on us, and we don't want it. They are very cultured people, as a matter of fact. Sometimes, they even manage to be civilized as well. - Captain Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Scagga Laebetrovo Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2008.12.02 16:03:00 - [21] Originally by: Stitcher They are very cultured people, as a matter of fact. Sometimes, they even manage to be civilized as well. No such thing, this is the work of their propaganda, perhaps their only organ that does them any good.
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.12.02 16:09:00 - [22] An opinion lifted directly from Amarrian propoganda, I'm sure. - Captain Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Wanoah Minmatar Msana Foundation	Posted - 2008.12.02 20:43:00 - [23] Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo One is led to the impression... You Ammatars always were easily led. Easily fooled too.
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.02 22:38:00 - [24] There is no debate... Part of being a good citizen of the Amarr Empire as a Ni-Kunni is knowing your place. The True Amarr are our betters and are the original chosen of God as defined in the holy scriptures. I know as the son of a slave and a slave myself as a child that only through enlightenment and obedience to the words of God will I ever achieve my destiny in life. There is no shame in being a Ni-Kunni and having your "place" on the tower of humanity. Be the best Ni-Kunni you can be and serve the empire with every breath. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL
Eran Mintor Valklear Guard	Posted - 2008.12.02 23:13:00 - [25] Originally by: Archbishop There is no shame in being a Ni-Kunni and having your "place" on the tower of humanity. Be the best Ni-Kunni you can be and serve the empire with every breath. Archbishop Aren't you supposed to serve God ahead of everything else? I have no doubt that, someday, the Empire as you know it will crumble. Perhaps not in my lifetime, but it would be a lesson to educate Amarr such as yourself that there is no service, besides service to Him, that has any value in the Hereafter.
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.03 12:19:00 - [26] As the Amarr Empire is the chosen of God and our Empress ordained as such with the obvious blessings of God the relationship and obedience one has with God directly applies to our relationship with our holy empire as well. I'm not saying God is empire yet I'm saying thanks to the empire we have a relationship with God that is even more enhanced because we have the opportunity to serve something greater than ourselves. Our leaders and the councils are far more knowledgable then I and without their stewardship and guidance I would merely be a man with a book of scriptures. With their leadership however I am an understanding man with a book of scriptures. Through the empire I am a man who has the honor of service and the guidance of obedience to guide my path. This service is one of many blessings God has bestowed on the Amarr people. The scriptures say it best: "Our Lord visited his flock and saw that all was not good. Blasphemy and heresy ruled the land. The Lord punished the sinners and drowned them in their own blood. But the people of Amarr lived righteously and in fear of God. Thus they were saved and became God's chosen one." ## The Scriptures. Book II. By doing our duty to the empire we serve God. If we serve something else we abandon the fact that God has chosen. He who would ignore God and walk away from the empire is walking into darkness. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.12.03 13:44:00 - [27] I feel that at least the state of learning of Yonis Ardishapur himself can be judged from the rather amusing dedication of his new cathedral to St. Articus. While I am minded to think the gesture less than subtle, I cannot reproach the Heir on the imaginative manner in which he has, so to speak, stuck two spires up in the face of the anti-heretic Sarum. The choice of one who took part in the framing of the doctrine of 'Sacred Flesh' as the resident saint of this cathedral, while we have a freshly-crowned example of one who all thinking beings know flagrantly broke that doctrine, is in itself a delightful snub to the Great Slaver Sow. But there is more to this. We are told that St. Articus 'fought - often in secret - to preserve the righteous way of the Amarr people in the face of corruption and impurity.' A man, we may think, after Ardishapur's own heart. That this remarkable and splendid act was revealed shortly after the Empress gifted Ardishapur the Ammatar Mandate as his personal fief only speaks to his keen sense of timing. Learning, wit and theatrics. I must admit, I admire the manner of it, even while I detest the retreat to archaism that the man stands for. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Zan Maruke Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.03 14:51:00 - [28] Edited by: Zan Maruke on 03/12/2008 14:53:10 A keen observation. Look at how the coils shift and squirm in The Empire though. For every Ardishapur challenging the Sarumites on the political right there is a Tash-Murkon, and her allies, subtly maneuvering on the left flank. Given the twin pressures a salient will form in time. As for the Amarr, what is there to say? There have been Amarr heros and Amarr heretics and Amarr theologians who sit in judgement to change the status of one to the next as suits whatever fashion the powerful adopt. And who can say that state of things is not the will of God? Who can trust man to interpret scripture correctly in all instances? Who can deny the mutable nature of the Amarrian faith? It seems to me, as a Believer, that God granted us our own minds with which to interpret the world around us through the lense of His teachings. One cannot contest the True Amarr were His messengers but given The Empire's history of late this son of Khanid finds it reasonable to question their role as stewards.
Aldrith Shutaq Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.12.03 21:01:00 - [29] I really must say that I am pleased with how this is turning out, it is sparking exactly what I think the Empire needs more of: debate of differing ideas among different people willing to engage in it with civility. I thank everyone for their opinions and observations. I also do hope to see more Matari with meaningful insights like Gabriel Darkefyre, rather than the regular venom-spitting tribals I see here. Now I'll give my ideas on the subject, as a Ni-Kunni loyal to Empress and God. To me I serve an Empire. I also serve a God, who views me on equal terms with others in that Empire. I, however, do not serve priests who tell me that I ought to serve that Empire working in a field due to in-born flaws that I can never help. That is a defeatist and racist attitude that harms the Empire more than it could ever help it. It promotes disunity, apathy and the horrible rancor of racial tension that will eventually eat the Empire from the inside if it is not dealt with soon. I'm shocked to see so many in the Empire feeling that I do not deserve to command my ships for the good of my home, despite the facts I do so wholeheartedly and well. The whole root of this problem is what I believe to be an utterly flawed way of interpreting the Amarrian Scriptures. Yes, the lost races of the galaxy went (and some still go without) knowledge of God and are somehow incomplete without it. Fair enough. However, the attitude that the Empire's conquered and converted people are somehow still inferior simply because our ancestors were not born on some particular continent on some particular planet is utterly wrong. The whole point of the Reclaiming is what its name suggests: to bring knowledge to the lost segments of humanity and unite them once again as equals and in peace. It is not a race to see which True Amarr can collect the most specimens of man-animal on their plantation and keep like livestock, toiling for their benefit for the rest of eternity. I am not an animal. Nor are any of the other races in the cluster, including the Minmatar. Take a page from our Empress's book: the other races are lost children, not lost sheep. When you reclaim your sheep you herd them into pens and cut their throats when you want dinner. When you reclaim your children you treat them with kindness and dignity, and try to raise them to become good adults with pride and love. The Udorians, Khanid, Ealurians, Ni-Kunni and Ammatar are children who have grown into fine examples of humanity, and now serve their parent Empire as they would serve their family, and should be given equality of repect and privledge. We serve an Empire. We serve a God. We do not serve one people, but anyone who wishes to be part of that Empire. This is something that Ardishapur and his apointee seem to not understand, and I daresay they hurt the Empire with their ideas of superiority. For now there is no threat, but the Heir has been getting much attention in the news, propogating his ideas that, like The Cosmopolite and Zan Maruke believe, are in opposition to our Empress's ideals. Time will tell where this is going.
Zan Maruke Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.03 22:27:00 - [30] I serve a King, friend, an Amarrian of True Blood whose line has proven itself beyond question to my people. Who renamed themselves, and some might say reformed themselves, after us. So my thoughts on the state of your Empire are more idle ponderations than contemplations of my own lot. However to the extent The Empire can embrace all of its own the better relations it will share with the ruck and run of the Kingdom's folk too. For all the talk of Dark Amarr and Khanid fanatics over the years the truth is that we are the least xenophobic and most technologically advanced of the Amarr family. It amuses some of us to let others, the Zealots we call them with a knowing smile, terrify our foes with their wild rhetoric and red-limned, flashing, eyes but for the most part we are a practical people as we always have been. Indeed, The Khanid of The Kingdom were even the most successful at commerce until the esteemed Lady Tash-Murkon rose and our friends, the Caldari, stumbled into hard times. Should the King continue his diplomatic dalliance with Tash-Murkon that could bode well for all Amarrians, of the Kingdom or The Empire, of whatever descent. The greatest warriors and the greatest enterpreneurs should well grow closer.

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