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AAPaladin	Posted - 2004.07.12 03:02:00 - [1] Ok so with all the changes to turret tracking and the like every one knows that the faster you move the better. Well with the nerf to mwd's only a very poor pilot or a very crazy pilot will use one. So basically the use of a mwd is no longer a tactically viable option. This wouldn't be so much of an issue if the little brother of the mwd was a little more potent. But let's all face it, after burners are just plan weak, even the tech 2 ones. So here's the idea. Increase the bonus gained from the use of an ab. Not much mind you, but enough to make them more useful. Say 50% for a tech1 and 75% for a tech2. In addition to that why not give us another ab specific skill. Some thing along the lines of giving more acceleration, like a skill that gives 5% bonus to kilos of thrust per a lvl. 5% may be too much, but even a small 2% per a lvl would be nice. So it would work like this a 100mn ab used by a pilot with lvl 4 thrust control would then get 108mn of thrust, or 120mn of thrust if you use the 5%. Of course it would at least be a rank 4, with pre requisites in afterburner and acceleration control. I heard that orbiting while sustaining a high speed is a good idea these days. However orbiting at 300m/s while using 2 tech2 ab's still offers little advantage over the enemy. Basically what IÆm asking is for ccp to beef up the ab to make it a much more tactical option in combat. The most maneuvering most pilots do these days is to either get close enough for their guns to hit or get far enough away so their enemies guns won't hit. If ccp boosted the ab then we all might see some much more interesting combat out there.
AAPaladin	Posted - 2004.07.12 03:02:00 - [2] Ok so with all the changes to turret tracking and the like every one knows that the faster you move the better. Well with the nerf to mwd's only a very poor pilot or a very crazy pilot will use one. So basically the use of a mwd is no longer a tactically viable option. This wouldn't be so much of an issue if the little brother of the mwd was a little more potent. But let's all face it, after burners are just plan weak, even the tech 2 ones. So here's the idea. Increase the bonus gained from the use of an ab. Not much mind you, but enough to make them more useful. Say 50% for a tech1 and 75% for a tech2. In addition to that why not give us another ab specific skill. Some thing along the lines of giving more acceleration, like a skill that gives 5% bonus to kilos of thrust per a lvl. 5% may be too much, but even a small 2% per a lvl would be nice. So it would work like this a 100mn ab used by a pilot with lvl 4 thrust control would then get 108mn of thrust, or 120mn of thrust if you use the 5%. Of course it would at least be a rank 4, with pre requisites in afterburner and acceleration control. I heard that orbiting while sustaining a high speed is a good idea these days. However orbiting at 300m/s while using 2 tech2 ab's still offers little advantage over the enemy. Basically what IÆm asking is for ccp to beef up the ab to make it a much more tactical option in combat. The most maneuvering most pilots do these days is to either get close enough for their guns to hit or get far enough away so their enemies guns won't hit. If ccp boosted the ab then we all might see some much more interesting combat out there.
Necrologic	Posted - 2004.07.12 03:15:00 - [3] right now i don't see the problem. Frigates mount 10mn's, cruisers slap on a 100mn. The only problem is for the bships. But i don't think they should be going over 1km/s in combat anyway... _______________________________________________________ Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram.
Necrologic	Posted - 2004.07.12 03:15:00 - [4] right now i don't see the problem. Frigates mount 10mn's, cruisers slap on a 100mn. The only problem is for the bships. But i don't think they should be going over 1km/s in combat anyway... _______________________________________________________ Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram.
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.07.12 04:23:00 - [5] You're assuming there that doing 150m/s isn't enough to make a turret miss, but it is, just depends on what ship you fly and how close you are. A tech II ab with high lvl (4/5) of acceleration control gives over 50% speed increase, that's enough. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.07.12 04:23:00 - [6] You're assuming there that doing 150m/s isn't enough to make a turret miss, but it is, just depends on what ship you fly and how close you are. A tech II ab with high lvl (4/5) of acceleration control gives over 50% speed increase, that's enough. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Del Narveux	Posted - 2004.07.12 04:27:00 - [7] AB's need to give about 20% more boost, and they need some interemediate sizes like 5MN and 50MN, so you can feasibly put some serious speed on without totally scarfing up all your infrastructure. _________________ [SAK] And Proud Of It! aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Del Narveux	Posted - 2004.07.12 04:27:00 - [8] AB's need to give about 20% more boost, and they need some interemediate sizes like 5MN and 50MN, so you can feasibly put some serious speed on without totally scarfing up all your infrastructure. _________________ [SAK] And Proud Of It! aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Lansfear	Posted - 2004.07.12 05:38:00 - [9] Perhaps make an afterburner 1/4 the power of a MWD? Still considerably slower, but a more noticable increase in speed making them almost worth using.
Lansfear	Posted - 2004.07.12 05:38:00 - [10] Perhaps make an afterburner 1/4 the power of a MWD? Still considerably slower, but a more noticable increase in speed making them almost worth using.
Meridius	Posted - 2004.07.12 05:49:00 - [11] Originally by: Necrologic right now i don't see the problem. Frigates mount 10mn's, cruisers slap on a 100mn. The only problem is for the bships. But i don't think they should be going over 1km/s in combat anyway... Cruisers/frigates using larger class ab's needs to be removed ASAP. With the new tracking changes its virtually impossible to hit a cruiser using 100mn ab's in a bs. That my friends is completely wrong no matter how much you enjoy it ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2004.07.12 05:49:00 - [12] Originally by: Necrologic right now i don't see the problem. Frigates mount 10mn's, cruisers slap on a 100mn. The only problem is for the bships. But i don't think they should be going over 1km/s in combat anyway... Cruisers/frigates using larger class ab's needs to be removed ASAP. With the new tracking changes its virtually impossible to hit a cruiser using 100mn ab's in a bs. That my friends is completely wrong no matter how much you enjoy it ________________________________________________________
Arbenowskee	Posted - 2004.07.12 08:52:00 - [13] Use webs, they work fine. I love my 10mn AB II on my crow.
Arbenowskee	Posted - 2004.07.12 08:52:00 - [14] Use webs, they work fine. I love my 10mn AB II on my crow.
Gaijin Lanis	Posted - 2004.07.12 09:05:00 - [15] Originally by: Meridius Cruisers/frigates using larger class ab's needs to be removed ASAP. With the new tracking changes its virtually impossible to hit a cruiser using 100mn ab's in a bs. That my friends is completely wrong no matter how much you enjoy it Webs if they're under 10km, heavy nosferatus if under 22km, guns and drones if they're over 22km If you don't want to fit a nosferatu or a smaller gun, enjoy your pod.
Gaijin Lanis	Posted - 2004.07.12 09:05:00 - [16] Originally by: Meridius Cruisers/frigates using larger class ab's needs to be removed ASAP. With the new tracking changes its virtually impossible to hit a cruiser using 100mn ab's in a bs. That my friends is completely wrong no matter how much you enjoy it Webs if they're under 10km, heavy nosferatus if under 22km, guns and drones if they're over 22km If you don't want to fit a nosferatu or a smaller gun, enjoy your pod.
Meridius	Posted - 2004.07.12 09:14:00 - [17] Originally by: Gaijin Lanis Originally by: Meridius Cruisers/frigates using larger class ab's needs to be removed ASAP. With the new tracking changes its virtually impossible to hit a cruiser using 100mn ab's in a bs. That my friends is completely wrong no matter how much you enjoy it Webs if they're under 10km, heavy nosferatus if under 22km, guns and drones if they're over 22km If you don't want to fit a nosferatu or a smaller gun, enjoy your pod. So you're saying its ok that my turrets cant hit a cruiser using 100mn ab at 40km @ my optimal? And no, cruisers don't scare me, it's just annoying that all i can hit these days is battleships. No i dont want to uber wtfpwn frigs and cruisers, but i should be able to at least hit cruisers from that range. I could if they had mwd on or were moving w/out any speed boosts but because they can mount a 100mn ab i can't do crap. That's not balance. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2004.07.12 09:14:00 - [18] Originally by: Gaijin Lanis Originally by: Meridius Cruisers/frigates using larger class ab's needs to be removed ASAP. With the new tracking changes its virtually impossible to hit a cruiser using 100mn ab's in a bs. That my friends is completely wrong no matter how much you enjoy it Webs if they're under 10km, heavy nosferatus if under 22km, guns and drones if they're over 22km If you don't want to fit a nosferatu or a smaller gun, enjoy your pod. So you're saying its ok that my turrets cant hit a cruiser using 100mn ab at 40km @ my optimal? And no, cruisers don't scare me, it's just annoying that all i can hit these days is battleships. No i dont want to uber wtfpwn frigs and cruisers, but i should be able to at least hit cruisers from that range. I could if they had mwd on or were moving w/out any speed boosts but because they can mount a 100mn ab i can't do crap. That's not balance. ________________________________________________________
Gaijin Lanis	Posted - 2004.07.12 09:50:00 - [19] Originally by: Meridius So you're saying its ok that my turrets cant hit a cruiser using 100mn ab at 40km @ my optimal? And no, cruisers don't scare me, it's just annoying that all i can hit these days is battleships. No i dont want to uber wtfpwn frigs and cruisers, but i should be able to at least hit cruisers from that range. I could if they had mwd on or were moving w/out any speed boosts but because they can mount a 100mn ab i can't do crap. That's not balance. Have you ever been killed by a cruiser fitted with a 100mn afterburner?
Gaijin Lanis	Posted - 2004.07.12 09:50:00 - [20] Originally by: Meridius So you're saying its ok that my turrets cant hit a cruiser using 100mn ab at 40km @ my optimal? And no, cruisers don't scare me, it's just annoying that all i can hit these days is battleships. No i dont want to uber wtfpwn frigs and cruisers, but i should be able to at least hit cruisers from that range. I could if they had mwd on or were moving w/out any speed boosts but because they can mount a 100mn ab i can't do crap. That's not balance. Have you ever been killed by a cruiser fitted with a 100mn afterburner?
Ahlaia	Posted - 2004.07.12 09:52:00 - [21] Edited by: Ahlaia on 12/07/2004 09:54:53 its balance, u gota sacrifice a lot of powergrid, the problem is, u only fly BS n u want to pwn evrything n evryone, imho, U SUCK. find solutions like we did. ps: u think there should be 1000mnAB just for u BS? oohhh por lil guy, he wants to make he uber huge ship just as fast as a frigate
Ahlaia	Posted - 2004.07.12 09:52:00 - [22] Edited by: Ahlaia on 12/07/2004 09:54:53 its balance, u gota sacrifice a lot of powergrid, the problem is, u only fly BS n u want to pwn evrything n evryone, imho, U SUCK. find solutions like we did. ps: u think there should be 1000mnAB just for u BS? oohhh por lil guy, he wants to make he uber huge ship just as fast as a frigate
Nova X	Posted - 2004.07.12 10:09:00 - [23] Originally by: AAPaladin ...In addition to that why not give us another ab specific skill. Some thing along the lines of giving more acceleration, like a skill that gives 5% bonus to kilos of thrust per a lvl.... Acceleration Control Improves speed boosting velocity. 5% Bonus per level to afterburner and microwarp drive speed. I do wonder when they changed the skill to include MWD's tough.
Nova X	Posted - 2004.07.12 10:09:00 - [24] Originally by: AAPaladin ...In addition to that why not give us another ab specific skill. Some thing along the lines of giving more acceleration, like a skill that gives 5% bonus to kilos of thrust per a lvl.... Acceleration Control Improves speed boosting velocity. 5% Bonus per level to afterburner and microwarp drive speed. I do wonder when they changed the skill to include MWD's tough.
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.07.12 10:25:00 - [25] Originally by: Lansfear Perhaps make an afterburner 1/4 the power of a MWD? Still considerably slower, but a more noticable increase in speed making them almost worth using. Oh you mean like a mini mwd, where using 2 of em would mean doing mwd speeds at the sacrifice of another med slot. Sometimes people should stop and think a little about what they're asking. And where do these AB needs 20% boost comments come from anyway? What are you basing this on? ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.07.12 10:25:00 - [26] Originally by: Lansfear Perhaps make an afterburner 1/4 the power of a MWD? Still considerably slower, but a more noticable increase in speed making them almost worth using. Oh you mean like a mini mwd, where using 2 of em would mean doing mwd speeds at the sacrifice of another med slot. Sometimes people should stop and think a little about what they're asking. And where do these AB needs 20% boost comments come from anyway? What are you basing this on? ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Eximius	Posted - 2004.07.12 19:44:00 - [27] If you really want to go that much faster you wont have a problem fitting two ABs. As for the out of class ABs, let them, its cute. ~Eximius, Reaver Templar When a man's soul is forfeited, he is said to die. We did not. We were remade as demons of malice for an unworldy purpose. We are empty. Damned, for one cannot look unto the abyss and remain whole. ~ActiveX, 3 days after the Ascension
Eximius	Posted - 2004.07.12 19:44:00 - [28] If you really want to go that much faster you wont have a problem fitting two ABs. As for the out of class ABs, let them, its cute. ~Eximius, Reaver Templar When a man's soul is forfeited, he is said to die. We did not. We were remade as demons of malice for an unworldy purpose. We are empty. Damned, for one cannot look unto the abyss and remain whole. ~ActiveX, 3 days after the Ascension
Balthial Ashaere	Posted - 2004.07.12 20:14:00 - [29] Quite frankly, I don't know why anyone would want to fly around their target at high speeds in a cruiser or battleships now. If you're moving even at all, your turret tracking goes to **; yeah you won't be able to be hit as much, but you in turn won't be able to hit your mark as much either. You know what I call that? Balance. And quite frankly, with the afterburners, speed mods, and navigation skills currently in the game, there's more than enough to make a good battle loadout. If there's one beef I have it's that microwarpdrives plain suck right now. I mean **, they eat up like 20-25% of your cap in one shot for equivalent sizes, and having more than one is suicide and unworkable now due to the penalties. I spent my time training skills for them, used them for an evening, and decided I'd rather use a single 10MN or 100MN afterburner on my Thorax, depending on what I'm doing, rather than bother with MWDs. The penalties, grid usage, and cap burn just don't make MWDs worth it in my opinion. I'm going to remain in a neutral standing for the most part on this issue, as I have yet to train up Acceleration Control. I'll get back to you when I have more skills. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Convergent Corporation - Infinite Opportunities; One Future!" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Convergent Mining Division - Refining The Foundation Of The Future!" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Balthial Ashaere	Posted - 2004.07.12 20:14:00 - [30] Quite frankly, I don't know why anyone would want to fly around their target at high speeds in a cruiser or battleships now. If you're moving even at all, your turret tracking goes to **; yeah you won't be able to be hit as much, but you in turn won't be able to hit your mark as much either. You know what I call that? Balance. And quite frankly, with the afterburners, speed mods, and navigation skills currently in the game, there's more than enough to make a good battle loadout. If there's one beef I have it's that microwarpdrives plain suck right now. I mean **, they eat up like 20-25% of your cap in one shot for equivalent sizes, and having more than one is suicide and unworkable now due to the penalties. I spent my time training skills for them, used them for an evening, and decided I'd rather use a single 10MN or 100MN afterburner on my Thorax, depending on what I'm doing, rather than bother with MWDs. The penalties, grid usage, and cap burn just don't make MWDs worth it in my opinion. I'm going to remain in a neutral standing for the most part on this issue, as I have yet to train up Acceleration Control. I'll get back to you when I have more skills. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Convergent Corporation - Infinite Opportunities; One Future!" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Convergent Mining Division - Refining The Foundation Of The Future!" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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