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What should I cross train to from Amarr for L4 Angel/Serp Missions

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Gotrek Gurnisson Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.29 20:19:00 - [1] Edited by: Gotrek Gurnisson on 29/11/2008 20:19:47 Currently I have: Amarr BS V All relevant none-racial gunnery skills to IV or V (including AWU V) Large Energy Weapon IV - meaning I dont yet have access to T2 Lasers All Armor tanking skills to IV All Engineering / Cap Regen skills to IV or V Access to T2 Light / Med drones No Shield or Missile skils to speak of I have no problem with any L4 missions except Angels / Serps. Due to their high EM / Therm resists it not only takes me ages to finish each mission, but I cant even break the tanks on some higher bounty Battleships. I could just concentrate on inproving my energy weapon skills, but would also like to broaden out my utility to include other races. So the question is - what should I think about training to in order to run Angel / Serp L4's safely and quickly? Gallente seems the obvious way to go - given their bias to guns and armor tanking. However I also dont mind considering training up Minny Battleships either as I like their designs better than the Gallente ones. Even better - can you identify a particular battleship I should think of training for (and why)? Thanks for any advice. Gotrek
Grarr Dexx Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.11.29 20:37:00 - [2] You can't break the tank on some BS? Are you talking about pulses with radio? Try a Megabeam Abaddon if you don't have the skills for t2 megapulses, and train the skills for that ASAP. -----
Gotrek Gurnisson Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.29 20:53:00 - [3] Edited by: Gotrek Gurnisson on 29/11/2008 20:54:23 Originally by: Grarr Dexx You can't break the tank on some BS? Are you talking about pulses with radio? Try a Megabeam Abaddon if you don't have the skills for t2 megapulses, and train the skills for that ASAP. Sadly not. As Angels have 85% EM / Therm resists then even the following setup cant break the tank of a 4M bounty Angel Battleship: Abaddon - Mission Running Perma-Rep Setup: 8 x Mega-Modulated Energy Beam I - with Amarr Navy MF 3 x Cap Recharger II 1 x LAR II 3 x Hardeners 1 x Heat Sink II 1 x CPR II 3 x CCC Rig NOTE: I almost never use pulses due to lack of T2 guns / crystals. I hate chasing battleships at 50-60km range and so generally prefer beams. A 3M bounty Sansha / Blood Raider BS melts within 40 sec to this setup. However a 3M Angel takes 6 minutes to kill. And a 4M Angel reps faster than I can do dps due to the EM / Therm resists. Serpentis are slightly easier but still difficult. Hence my need to switch to none-EM or Therm damage types for missioning against them. I have heard that the Hyperion is a tanking beast but low dps. The Megathron is ridiculous dps but doesnt tank very well. The Domi is mainly drones, where I have less skills. Hence my interest about possibly trying out the Minny gun-based Battleships (even if I have to train up shield tanking). Any ideas of what would be easiest to go for and least likely to die on L4's?
Orakkus Minmatar m3 Corp BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.29 20:59:00 - [4] Actually, given your current skillset, your best bet would be to work towards the Dominix. You already have a good foundation for your drone skills so you won't have to train up another weapon system from the ground up. Dominix also a good armor tanking ship, so I think that is your best bet if you find that getting T2 lasers aren't good enough for you. I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet.
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Frigateers Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.11.29 21:31:00 - [5] How about a Sacrilege? ............. Now recruiting like-minded pilots.
Gotrek Gurnisson Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.29 22:22:00 - [6] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker How about a Sacrilege? Sacrilege looks gorgeous on paper - but I have heard its dps output isnt that great - or did the Sacri get a damage boost in QR? (I thought HAMs and Rockets were due a damage boost after Torps got one previously - has this happenned yet?)
Akuma Tsukai Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.30 08:03:00 - [7] Try getting T2 heavy drones. If thats still dont fix it - train domi (ull need at least heavies for it anyway). IMO its the shortest way for ur skills. ---- Drones eat everything. Trust me.
Miandondon	Posted - 2008.11.30 09:36:00 - [8] Train projectile weapons up to large projectile weapon IV. Use named 1200/1400 mm artys with faction ammo on your Amarr battleship. Combined with drones they should be able to break the tank of Angel/Sansha BSs without having to train up for other races' battleships.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2008.11.30 10:59:00 - [9] With t2 large guns and Paladin, my set of 5 med (+5 light) drones kill ships faster than my laz0rs can in Angel missions. Doesn't matter what skills you get, we will always suck there, so either fly Khanid ship or crosstrain. I trained up t2 heavy drones for the geddon long time ago, so I spent a week? or so getting Gallente BS II-III for the Dominix. It'll solve all your issues, especially if you got decent Sentry- and drone support skills. Major reason I left my first corp was because we lived in 0.0 with Angels. Imho it's just not reasonable to fly Amarr against them. That was pre-Khanid ships tho, today I'd use a Sac or Curse if I had to rat Angels. Missions? Crosstrain. No option.
Gotrek Gurnisson Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.30 11:08:00 - [10] Edited by: Gotrek Gurnisson on 30/11/2008 11:10:19 Edited by: Gotrek Gurnisson on 30/11/2008 11:09:51 Originally by: Miandondon Train projectile weapons up to large projectile weapon IV. Use named 1200/1400 mm artys with faction ammo on your Amarr battleship. Combined with drones they should be able to break the tank of Angel/Sansha BSs without having to train up for other races' battleships. Thanks for pointing it out - I had forgotten all about this tactic! Looks like I will be trying the following in the short term instead of retraining: Apocalypse - Anti-Angel Perma-Dual Rep Setup: Either: (1400mm 'Scout' x 8) or (1400mm 'Scout' x 6 + 2 x Arbalest Cruise Launchers) 3 x CR II Alumel-Wired I Sensor Augmentation (Range Script) 2 x LAR II 3 x Hardeners RCU II Gyro II 3 x CCC Rig 120km range, and everything fits with my curent skills - just need to train for Large Projectiles and Cruise Missiles. And if I find Im horribly overtanked I can just drop a LAR and fit more Gyros Thanks for the ideas guys.

McFly C0LDFIRE RUDE Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.30 11:14:00 - [11] If ur doing serpentis I recommend the ishtar, dual MAR, 3x active T2 Hardners, and drones, but if u aren't willing to train up some SP in drones, then i dunno. Ishtar is still my favorite PVE ship. especially against Serpentis/Gurista
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.11.30 11:27:00 - [12] Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 30/11/2008 11:30:23 Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson Originally by: Joe Starbreaker How about a Sacrilege? Sacrilege looks gorgeous on paper - but I have heard its dps output isnt that great - or did the Sacri get a damage boost in QR? (I thought HAMs and Rockets were due a damage boost after Torps got one previously - has this happenned yet?) If you're using HAM javelins you'll loose quite a bit of range compared to pre-QR (60% or so, but no changes in normal HAMs) but Javelins do about 5% more damage than pre-QR and HAMs themselves are quite nice as it is. A Target Painter is nice if you're also hitting a lot of frigs, but since it's a L4, let the drones do that and kill the bigger stuff. As for the DPS, full rack of HAM IIs with 2 BCUs does 318 DPS without drones, of any damage type you want. (that's with HAM spec 4 and Heavy Assault Ships 4) A 3rd BCU isn't really an option as you'll want to have some tank fitted, it only has 5 lows afteral. Not sure if that's enough DPS to crack a 4m bounty BS, but they'll have some trouble hitting you since you only have a cruiser sized signature and you'll be going ~560 m/s with an AB.
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.30 11:33:00 - [13] Apoc + Berserker II?
Endo Scrote Amarr Universal Moose Foundation	Posted - 2008.11.30 11:43:00 - [14] The thing to do considering you are so close is T2 pulse and bream lasers save up for a Paladin T2 lasers on that will chew them up anyway If using pulses add an Afterburner I still can't fly a Paladin yet so use a Nightmare
hiverq	Posted - 2008.11.30 12:23:00 - [15] hrhr, damn angel :D since i fly a paladin and i have more free low slots to add heat sinks (4 laser eat less powergrid->no need for PDS/RC II +rep bonus ->less low slots for good tank needed) i dont have so much trouble to kill em/therm resist rats. do u allready use t2 meds minma drones for angel missions? this also helps a bit. if you dont want to go for a paladin, u could use a armageddon fitted with a mix of 3x heavy/2x med/1 small minma drones or something like that. pulses fittet on an apoc might be another solution. with range bonus+tracking comp+ultravio crystals you should be able to break tank up to 51 km (max orbiting range of rats in any mission). and those machariel angel bs always tend to orbit at 3-30km, so that shouldtn be a problem. with serpentis, i never had that much trouble. if u really want to cross train, my advice would be a dominix. armor tank skills are allready trained, and skilling drones for 20-30 days also helps you to kill cruisers/frigs even faster on your amarr ships, so the time is definitely not wasted. o/
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2008.11.30 16:16:00 - [16] Can't actually fly it myself but looking at Amarr BS I'd think an Armaggeddon with 4 (t2) Bouncers/5 warriors would make short work of Angels. Or am I missing something? Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.11.30 16:54:00 - [17] Originally by: Washell Olivaw Can't actually fly it myself but looking at Amarr BS I'd think an Armaggeddon with 4 (t2) Bouncers/5 warriors would make short work of Angels. Or am I missing something? 85%+ EM resistance, making the lasers a bit useless.
Lili Lu Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.11.30 17:18:00 - [18] Edited by: Lili Lu on 30/11/2008 17:21:00 Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson Edited by: Gotrek Gurnisson on 30/11/2008 11:10:19 Edited by: Gotrek Gurnisson on 30/11/2008 11:09:51 Originally by: Miandondon Train projectile weapons up to large projectile weapon IV. Use named 1200/1400 mm artys with faction ammo on your Amarr battleship. Combined with drones they should be able to break the tank of Angel/Sansha BSs without having to train up for other races' battleships. Thanks for pointing it out - I had forgotten all about this tactic! Looks like I will be trying the following in the short term instead of retraining: Apocalypse - Anti-Angel Perma-Dual Rep Setup: Either: (1400mm 'Scout' x 8) or (1400mm 'Scout' x 6 + 2 x Arbalest Cruise Launchers) 3 x CR II Alumel-Wired I Sensor Augmentation (Range Script) 2 x LAR II 3 x Hardeners RCU II Gyro II 3 x CCC Rig 120km range, and everything fits with my curent skills - just need to train for Large Projectiles and Cruise Missiles. And if I find Im horribly overtanked I can just drop a LAR and fit more Gyros Thanks for the ideas guys. This should work with a little adjustment. Try 1200s, won't need the rcu, and waiting for 1400s to fire another volley without a rof bonus is very sad. So, use 6x1200 scout, and 2 arby cruise in highs. In mids: painter, ab, sensor booster, crII In lows: cprII, Gyro II, LAR II, DCII, and mix of TEII, Hardeners, EANM, another Gyro or CPR, basically whatever works for you with your skills in the remaining 3 slots. Rigs: 2 CCC, 1 ANP Nuclear and Fusion ammo, and obviously explosive cruise and medium/light drones Still not ideal but should be serviceable. If you are constantly doing missions against angels cross train.


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