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Darthbob
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Posted - 2004.07.12 20:37:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Darthbob on 12/07/2004 20:44:13
Edited by: Darthbob on 12/07/2004 20:43:16
Hehe, hit enter on accidcent, posting nothing.
I see TomB talking about how he wants to change microwarpdrives in the futur, and he says something about them making it so you can only fly in a straight line. Well, I was talking to some corp mates who have been here a long time and they talked of how inertial dampners and the like used to make it so battleships could orbit frigs before they were nerfed back. Well, how about MWDs just give a massive reduction in agility. I mean MASSIVE like maybe making something turn 5-10 times slower than they do normaly. As it is now I notice that if your turning and hit your microwarp you whip right around. I'm guessing this is because your current speed is insiginificant compared to your new max speed so you turn really fast. Well, this should be exactly the opposite. Microwarps could turn some, but if you wanted to orbit a battleship with one you'd have to do it at 20k or so, no less.
Edit number two re adds the title to the subject... I'm so bad at forrums.
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Darthbob
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Posted - 2004.07.12 20:37:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Darthbob on 12/07/2004 20:44:13
Edited by: Darthbob on 12/07/2004 20:43:16
Hehe, hit enter on accidcent, posting nothing.
I see TomB talking about how he wants to change microwarpdrives in the futur, and he says something about them making it so you can only fly in a straight line. Well, I was talking to some corp mates who have been here a long time and they talked of how inertial dampners and the like used to make it so battleships could orbit frigs before they were nerfed back. Well, how about MWDs just give a massive reduction in agility. I mean MASSIVE like maybe making something turn 5-10 times slower than they do normaly. As it is now I notice that if your turning and hit your microwarp you whip right around. I'm guessing this is because your current speed is insiginificant compared to your new max speed so you turn really fast. Well, this should be exactly the opposite. Microwarps could turn some, but if you wanted to orbit a battleship with one you'd have to do it at 20k or so, no less.
Edit number two re adds the title to the subject... I'm so bad at forrums.
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Cruz
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Posted - 2004.07.12 20:38:00 -
[3]
perfect idea!!
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Cruz
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Posted - 2004.07.12 20:38:00 -
[4]
perfect idea!!
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Frazzled
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Posted - 2004.07.12 20:39:00 -
[5]
totally inspired!
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Frazzled
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Posted - 2004.07.12 20:39:00 -
[6]
totally inspired!
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Xelios
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Posted - 2004.07.12 20:46:00 -
[7]
Holy alt posting Batman!
It's definatly better than the only-straight-line idea, but I still think they're fine the way they were.. without the sig radius nerf. I think webs should get the attention here, not mwd. If a web would increase the target's sig radius by 100-200% it'd be just fine, people who are worried about frigates attacking them could fit a couple webs and they'd be much easier to hit.
I don't like building nerfs into modules when there are already other modules to counter them. Ie. the means to counter mwd's on frigates are already in the game, people are just too lazy or too unwilling to use them.
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Xelios
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Posted - 2004.07.12 20:46:00 -
[8]
Holy alt posting Batman!
It's definatly better than the only-straight-line idea, but I still think they're fine the way they were.. without the sig radius nerf. I think webs should get the attention here, not mwd. If a web would increase the target's sig radius by 100-200% it'd be just fine, people who are worried about frigates attacking them could fit a couple webs and they'd be much easier to hit.
I don't like building nerfs into modules when there are already other modules to counter them. Ie. the means to counter mwd's on frigates are already in the game, people are just too lazy or too unwilling to use them.
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2004.07.12 20:48:00 -
[9]
What you are looking for is for an active MWD to penalize a ships AGILITY.
I think even more than 5 times slower is in order, if to remove the other penalties, so that agility hits something like 5% of the original.
Oh, and to promote Afterburners, they could give an inertia bonus when fitted. Also need to look at cross-class fitting Afterburners, then, though.
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If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
Ithildin
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Posted - 2004.07.12 20:48:00 -
[10]
What you are looking for is for an active MWD to penalize a ships AGILITY.
I think even more than 5 times slower is in order, if to remove the other penalties, so that agility hits something like 5% of the original.
Oh, and to promote Afterburners, they could give an inertia bonus when fitted. Also need to look at cross-class fitting Afterburners, then, though.
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
Darthbob
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Posted - 2004.07.12 20:53:00 -
[11]
The thing is TomB has stated he already wants to change microwarps in the future, so i was trying to get ideas out there that are more reasonable than "No turning while you use them." Also, with this i was hoping /all/ other debufs could be removed on them. This way you could get near insane speeds with them, but if you used more than one your turning would be so slow you might as well not be able to turn.
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Darthbob
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Posted - 2004.07.12 20:53:00 -
[12]
The thing is TomB has stated he already wants to change microwarps in the future, so i was trying to get ideas out there that are more reasonable than "No turning while you use them." Also, with this i was hoping /all/ other debufs could be removed on them. This way you could get near insane speeds with them, but if you used more than one your turning would be so slow you might as well not be able to turn.
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Wilk Arten
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Posted - 2004.07.12 20:53:00 -
[13]
General note on agility. Shouldn't your turning speed be totaly independent from your travel speed?
As in, it doesn't matter how fast or slow you are going (max velocity or standing still), your maneuvering thrusters can turn your ship around only so quickly?
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Wilk Arten
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Posted - 2004.07.12 20:53:00 -
[14]
General note on agility. Shouldn't your turning speed be totaly independent from your travel speed?
As in, it doesn't matter how fast or slow you are going (max velocity or standing still), your maneuvering thrusters can turn your ship around only so quickly?
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Xelios
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Posted - 2004.07.12 20:58:00 -
[15]
Problem with not being able to turn, or being able to turn very slowly, is you'll overshoot your target every time.
We're trying to push all these nerfs on mwd's, wouldn't it just be easier to change webs to size classed modules? Ie a battleship sized web would slow a frigate to its new speed almost instantly, but gradually slow another battleship? Have it add 100% to sig radius of the target and that should fix the problems shouldn't it?
The only advantage a frigate has over other ships is speed, so why not let them have their speed if it's entirely possible to rob them of it with one or two modules?
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Xelios
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Posted - 2004.07.12 20:58:00 -
[16]
Problem with not being able to turn, or being able to turn very slowly, is you'll overshoot your target every time.
We're trying to push all these nerfs on mwd's, wouldn't it just be easier to change webs to size classed modules? Ie a battleship sized web would slow a frigate to its new speed almost instantly, but gradually slow another battleship? Have it add 100% to sig radius of the target and that should fix the problems shouldn't it?
The only advantage a frigate has over other ships is speed, so why not let them have their speed if it's entirely possible to rob them of it with one or two modules?
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Bubba Fett
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Posted - 2004.07.12 22:44:00 -
[17]
Everyone seems to have an idea on how to further nerf the mwd. You don't actually think any of the other penalties will be coming off do you? lol.
We're just going to end up with a 4th penalty on the mwd if the agility thing is adopted. (going to need another page in the info screen to list all the nerfs soon)
It's gotten to where the only thing I use a mwd on is my battleship, and as soon as titan afterburners hit the market that's gone too.
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Bubba Fett
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Posted - 2004.07.12 22:44:00 -
[18]
Everyone seems to have an idea on how to further nerf the mwd. You don't actually think any of the other penalties will be coming off do you? lol.
We're just going to end up with a 4th penalty on the mwd if the agility thing is adopted. (going to need another page in the info screen to list all the nerfs soon)
It's gotten to where the only thing I use a mwd on is my battleship, and as soon as titan afterburners hit the market that's gone too.
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Balthial Ashaere
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Posted - 2004.07.13 00:37:00 -
[19]
Here's a novel idea; why not just scrap microwarpdrives altogether? I mean seriously, right now they are used for pretty much just getting out of being webbed, so why don't we just change them into "Impulse Stabilizers". Someone webs you, then just turn that thing on and away you go. Microwarpdrives are alreayd nerfed to the point where no one really wants to use them for anything anymore, other than expendable ships which just need to get close to get their Electronics Warfare modules activated. If not moving them entirely, then just make them into an Interceptor-only module of some sort, which makes sense from a conceptual standpoint. The only thing you'd need to do to balance this in terms of speed boosters for Cruisers and Battleships would be a minor increase in afterburner speeds. Anyways, just some ideas off the top of my head.
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"Convergent Corporation - Infinite Opportunities; One Future!"
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"Convergent Mining Division - Refining The Foundation Of The Future!"
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Balthial Ashaere
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Posted - 2004.07.13 00:37:00 -
[20]
Here's a novel idea; why not just scrap microwarpdrives altogether? I mean seriously, right now they are used for pretty much just getting out of being webbed, so why don't we just change them into "Impulse Stabilizers". Someone webs you, then just turn that thing on and away you go. Microwarpdrives are alreayd nerfed to the point where no one really wants to use them for anything anymore, other than expendable ships which just need to get close to get their Electronics Warfare modules activated. If not moving them entirely, then just make them into an Interceptor-only module of some sort, which makes sense from a conceptual standpoint. The only thing you'd need to do to balance this in terms of speed boosters for Cruisers and Battleships would be a minor increase in afterburner speeds. Anyways, just some ideas off the top of my head.
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"Convergent Corporation - Infinite Opportunities; One Future!"
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"Convergent Mining Division - Refining The Foundation Of The Future!"
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Xelios
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Posted - 2004.07.13 00:42:00 -
[21]
Why not change mwd's into more of a cap-booster type thing? Say a fuel injector that can be loaded up with fuel cells, when the module is activated it gives a huge speed boost for a limited time, much like cap boosters give a huge cap boost but not constantly. This way pilots will need to be more conservative with them, resulting in less need for rediculous nerfs to control them and close range battleships would not be penalized as they could still get close to their targets without having a sig radius the size of a Titan.
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Xelios
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Posted - 2004.07.13 00:42:00 -
[22]
Why not change mwd's into more of a cap-booster type thing? Say a fuel injector that can be loaded up with fuel cells, when the module is activated it gives a huge speed boost for a limited time, much like cap boosters give a huge cap boost but not constantly. This way pilots will need to be more conservative with them, resulting in less need for rediculous nerfs to control them and close range battleships would not be penalized as they could still get close to their targets without having a sig radius the size of a Titan.
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Del Narveux
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Posted - 2004.07.13 01:39:00 -
[23]
Killing the sig radius nerf, or at least greatly reducing its effect, and adding a really massive agility penalty would probably be a good idea. As I see it, the MWD is meant for one-shot tactical maneuvers and long-distance travel, not just as a constant kick-in-teh-pants speed mod.
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Del Narveux
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Posted - 2004.07.13 01:39:00 -
[24]
Killing the sig radius nerf, or at least greatly reducing its effect, and adding a really massive agility penalty would probably be a good idea. As I see it, the MWD is meant for one-shot tactical maneuvers and long-distance travel, not just as a constant kick-in-teh-pants speed mod.
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.07.13 01:55:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 13/07/2004 01:58:39
Agility should be altered by the speed and mass of the ship. Going faster should automatically make you turn slower, there should be no penalty associated specificly with a MWD.
But I'm guessing that the devs won't be able make agility on ships work properly. If you recall they stated, and most people agreed, that the solution to the missle/frigate issue was to lower agility on bigger missles. They came back later and said they couldn't do this for various reasons. Agility has always been a little screwed up in this game, and I'm fairly certain that applies to ships as well as missles.
And if they nerf MWD's again so that you can only go in a straight line I will probably quit playing. I've dovoted an awful lot of skillpoints to navigation. PvP seems a whole lot more fun and interesting to me when you are moving fast, positioning and reflexes come into play a little bit, and you don't just have to sit back and press F1, F2, F3.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.07.13 01:55:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 13/07/2004 01:58:39
Agility should be altered by the speed and mass of the ship. Going faster should automatically make you turn slower, there should be no penalty associated specificly with a MWD.
But I'm guessing that the devs won't be able make agility on ships work properly. If you recall they stated, and most people agreed, that the solution to the missle/frigate issue was to lower agility on bigger missles. They came back later and said they couldn't do this for various reasons. Agility has always been a little screwed up in this game, and I'm fairly certain that applies to ships as well as missles.
And if they nerf MWD's again so that you can only go in a straight line I will probably quit playing. I've dovoted an awful lot of skillpoints to navigation. PvP seems a whole lot more fun and interesting to me when you are moving fast, positioning and reflexes come into play a little bit, and you don't just have to sit back and press F1, F2, F3.
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Wilk Arten
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Posted - 2004.07.13 03:57:00 -
[27]
 Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 13/07/2004 01:58:39
Agility should be altered by the speed and mass of the ship. Going faster should automatically make you turn slower, there should be no penalty associated specificly with a MWD.
Why should going faster make you turn slower? You will turn just as fast, except at the higher speed your turning radius will be much larger.
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Wilk Arten
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Posted - 2004.07.13 03:57:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 13/07/2004 01:58:39
Agility should be altered by the speed and mass of the ship. Going faster should automatically make you turn slower, there should be no penalty associated specificly with a MWD.
Why should going faster make you turn slower? You will turn just as fast, except at the higher speed your turning radius will be much larger.
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Vex Seraphim
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Posted - 2004.07.13 04:24:00 -
[29]
come on, kill the frigates all together...
bloody hell, the sig radius was ENOUGH of a nerf,
yes, battleships still don't hit me when i orbit them, but neither can i
shoot torps at them from a friggie, balanced.
if you handicap mwd's any more, frigate survivability will again decrease to null.
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:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
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Vex Seraphim
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Posted - 2004.07.13 04:24:00 -
[30]
come on, kill the frigates all together...
bloody hell, the sig radius was ENOUGH of a nerf,
yes, battleships still don't hit me when i orbit them, but neither can i
shoot torps at them from a friggie, balanced.
if you handicap mwd's any more, frigate survivability will again decrease to null.
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
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