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A salute to the bravery of minmatar militia pilots

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Foolish Bob Caldari The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2008.12.02 11:45:00 - [1] puts on his most outrageous propaganda hat So we got our arses handed to us last night. Fair enough, it happens, but I couldn't let the moment pass without giving a big o7 to our worthy opponents and their brave stand. These paragons of courage, exemplars of warriors all who, on seeing a 20 man fleet in their system ran, crying "OMG find teh blob!" - an act made all the more amusing by the fact that local dropped by at least 20. And so these masters of brave battle did gird their loins and with a 50 man fleet did set forth, but still their hearts were afeared. Such is the prowess of their warriors that 2:1 odds were deemed not a sufficient guarantor of victory, and thus did the cynos open. I wonder: just how many carriers did you have on stand-by, and how many more did U'K promise? The blob truly is back in town. Well I say this - if that's where they want to live, then let us deny them any option but that. We fight for many reasons: some fight for the empire, some for glory, and some for the thrill of battle - but they know that we fight and rightly fear that; and so we should return to doing what we do best - small gangs, roaming the front lines and hunting for targets. All they will know is the blob, and blob will be boring for it will get no real fights. Most of all, though, they will stay in the blob; they will know, that if they venture out, without the protection of their battleships or their carriers or their uncounted hordes, that any jump they make may bring them to us. So to the Amarr pilots, o7 I'll see you in space soon enough, I'm sure. To the Minmatar pilots, I'll see you in space soon enough. I'm sure. puts down his propaganda hat
Daevonar Minmatar Starfish Operating Syndicate	Posted - 2008.12.02 13:53:00 - [2] To paraphrase a corp-mate. the best defence is to have friends... lots of friends; with guns... big guns. Dae.
Ugleb Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.12.02 14:35:00 - [3] Originally by: Foolish Bob I wonder: just how many carriers did you have on stand-by, and how many more did U'K promise? Around every corner, behind every gate, at the end of every cyno field, lies an Ushra'Khan capital fleet. Contact the Sarz'na Khumatari
Foolish Bob Caldari The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2008.12.02 14:58:00 - [4] Originally by: Ugleb Originally by: Foolish Bob I wonder: just how many carriers did you have on stand-by, and how many more did U'K promise? Around every corner, behind every gate, at the end of every cyno field, lies an Ushra'Khan capital fleet. And as I said to your chaps the last time they dropped 20 cap ships on us, if you really, truly had faith that the Minmatar faction could win at 2:1 odds in their favour, then you wouldn't need to promise any capital ships at all. Such a statement is a sign of weakness, not power.
Terraform Gallente Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2008.12.02 15:28:00 - [5] I will have to agree with Bob. Desides, it was more like a 60 man blob they sent out than a 50 man one.
Scagga Laebetrovo Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2008.12.02 15:41:00 - [6] Originally by: Terraform I will have to agree with Bob. Desides, it was more like a 60 man blob they sent out than a 50 man one. Let us leave these points to the wind, comrade, for we have always known the tribal nature. What matters is our empire, unclaimed, unsullied.
Alica Wildfire Minmatar Federal Investigations Agency	Posted - 2008.12.02 16:20:00 - [7] If I may add some remarks of blobs. They are completely useless, because even if we slay 8 battleships with it, my ship will be a lone wreck on the field. My ship never survives any encounter. Never. So - what are blobs for anyway? It's really like some sort of curse. Every battle I enter with a ship, I leave in my pod. Damnation. Even if the enemy just fires one single shot you can be almost sure that this will hit me and destroy me instantly. And if this does not happen, the guy with the wrath of the local Navy vessels on him will warp out at the second I am in the middle of all of them. And then I will be shot down too, halve a second later. For even if the Navyguys have hundred targets, they will always fire on me. Gnah! -- FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
Jodie Amille Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.12.02 19:10:00 - [8] Edited by: Jodie Amille on 02/12/2008 19:10:06 Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo Originally by: Terraform I will have to agree with Bob. Desides, it was more like a 60 man blob they sent out than a 50 man one. Let us leave these points to the wind, comrade, for we have always known the tribal nature. What matters is our empire, unclaimed, unsullied. I agree with dear Scagga. Simply laugh at their sheer and utter incompetence and move along. Such are the ways of Minmatar "combat doctrine"; it'll never change. --------
Neu Bastian Minmatar Valklear Guard	Posted - 2008.12.02 19:50:00 - [9] You're outgunned. Deal with it and spare us the whining. Quote: Neu Bastian Valklear Guard - CEO
Eran Mintor Valklear Guard	Posted - 2008.12.02 20:45:00 - [10] Boo-****ing-hoo As if I haven't already heard this complaint a million times before.
MirrorGod Heretic Army Heretic Nation	Posted - 2008.12.02 21:50:00 - [11] It's very good to hear the torch is being carried, and the amarrian fleets inferiority persists. An offer, and perhaps this deserves its own communication; I'm still interested in collecting more corpses of the amarrian pigs, if anyone's amassed ammount to add to my 500 odd, contact me. [center]
Mukiri Minmatar Tribal Core	Posted - 2008.12.02 21:57:00 - [12] I personally find this post rather amusing based on the education I have had concerning the Amarr over the last few days. You see I was always told as a child that the Amarr where the asses of the universe. I in my ignorance took this to mean that the Amarr where jerks and crule to people and thought nothing more of it. After my encounters I now say I have a new understanding. By calling the Amarr the asses of the universe we are referring to the part of them we see the most. As they scurry away we see their behinds and nothing else, hence we call them asses as that is all of them we know.
Jodie Amille Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.12.02 23:00:00 - [13] Originally by: Mukiri By calling the Amarr the asses of the universe we are referring to the part of them we see the most. As they scurry away we see their behinds and nothing else, hence we call them asses as that is all of them we know. Oddly enough, we laugh at the Minmatar for the same thing, only coming out to fight unless they have overwhelming odds in their favour. So in this I'd have to say to you: Pot, Kettle, Black --------
Foolish Bob Caldari The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2008.12.02 23:51:00 - [14] Edited by: Foolish Bob on 02/12/2008 23:52:34 Originally by: Mukiri I personally find this post rather amusing based on the education I have had concerning the Amarr over the last few days. You see I was always told as a child that the Amarr where the asses of the universe. I in my ignorance took this to mean that the Amarr where jerks and crule to people and thought nothing more of it. After my encounters I now say I have a new understanding. By calling the Amarr the asses of the universe we are referring to the part of them we see the most. As they scurry away we see their behinds and nothing else, hence we call them asses as that is all of them we know. Because it's amarr pilots that run from my interceptor when they outnumber me 3:1 It's amarr pilots that drop carriers on BC fleets It's amarr pilots who evacuate a superior fleet because it's not superior enough It's amarr pilots who fly around with dual warp stabs fitted It's amarr pilots who fly into battle with a numerical and tactical advantage, and then have to call Ushra'Khan to drop a fleet of capital ships on them when they realise they're losing. No. It's not. We fight. We fight so much we even fight when we shouldn't (sorry Neph - I did it again I couldn't help myself ), and what really bothers you in the end is that we all know that when we fight on even terms, and even when we fight on uneven terms, we win. Again and again in this war when you have merely outnumbered us you fall before us, until we have reclaimed what you took from us, and then on, you fall back till we we're knocking on the very doors of your stations and our ships are parked at your acceleration gates. Now, all of a sudden, you completely and totally by coincidence get two new corps join that give you access to the blob once more and this is superiority? No, sir! It is not. And you know what really bugs me - what gets to me most of all? This all bothers me to! I'm here for the hunt, the trap, the glorious battle. I want to look over the field at the wrecks of my enemies and know that when we tell people of this that we say that our enemies fought valiantly! If we are defeated, I want to know it was by the slimmest of margins, that we went down weapons melting, but the better fleet carried the day. Can any of you really say that you'd prefer an easy battle where you only get our battleships to a close one where you had a chance to get our entire fleet. If the answer is yes, hisec is that way, thank you for coming. If the answer is no, then you must know that MirrorGod and the like perpetuate your fear. You can fight. You will die, but you will get up and you will fight again, because your pride is just as strong as mine, and that when you fight you will do everything you can to make the battle glorious. You deserve that, and so do we. In the meantime, we will fight, and die, and we will get up and we will fight again, and when we fight we will do everything we can to make the battle glorious, because we are the Amarr Milita, and for these pilots with whom I fly and no far off Empress do I say Amarr Victa! Edit -- spelling sucked
Rai Khan	Posted - 2008.12.03 00:00:00 - [15] It is a bad FC that willingly engage 1:3 odds. If you do, you can't blame the otherside for bring the blob (why the hell not?).
Foolish Bob Caldari The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2008.12.03 00:07:00 - [16] Originally by: Rai Khan It is a bad FC that willingly engage 1:3 odds. If you do, you can't blame the otherside for bring the blob (why the hell not?). But by that logic we'd never have captured any systems at all. The crux of my rant is when they have a fleet that can take us and they retreat to find more people, which happens time after time after time.
Karn Mithralia Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.12.03 00:15:00 - [17] Originally by: Foolish Bob Such a statement is a sign of weakness, not power. Such a statement was a joke you cretin.
Rai Khan	Posted - 2008.12.03 00:23:00 - [18] Originally by: Foolish Bob Edited by: Foolish Bob on 03/12/2008 00:08:08 Originally by: Rai Khan It is a bad FC that willingly engage 1:3 odds. If you do, you can't blame the otherside for bring the blob (why the hell not?). But by that logic we'd never have captured any systems at all. The crux of my rant is when they have a fleet that can take us and they retreat to find more people, or just flat out retreat, which happens time after time after time. One has nothing to do with the other. My point is if they know you will engage what ever the odd, then why the hell not. Stop doing stupid stuff and maybe the other side will be forced to give you a good fight.
Foolish Bob Caldari The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2008.12.03 00:54:00 - [19] Originally by: Karn Mithralia Such a statement was a joke you cretin. No, it wasn't. It is a statement of unequivocal fact that U'K has played an active role in this war from the start, camping gates and suchlike. Dropping 20 capital ships into combat is, in your minds, a display of power. So was the comment earlier. You don't get to backtrack just because I pointed out that it's the opposite. Thank you for accepting my logic though - after all, if you didn't then you wouldn't have needed to point out that, given that you are powerful (and as an alliance you are, there's no disputing that fact) then the only way for the previous comment to not negate your power was that it was a joke. Your mistake was not realising that not every alliance that is strong always appears so, and nor does every alliance that is weak. Originally by: Rai Khan Originally by: Foolish Bob Edited by: Foolish Bob on 03/12/2008 00:08:08 Originally by: Rai Khan It is a bad FC that willingly engage 1:3 odds. If you do, you can't blame the otherside for bring the blob (why the hell not?). But by that logic we'd never have captured any systems at all. The crux of my rant is when they have a fleet that can take us and they retreat to find more people, or just flat out retreat, which happens time after time after time. One has nothing to do with the other. My point is if they know you will engage what ever the odd, then why the hell not. Stop doing stupid stuff and maybe the other side will be forced to give you a good fight. If we were talking about fixed installations, I'd agree, but we're not. In order to capture a system we have to take a fleet and sit it motionless in space for at least 20 minutes at a particular point in the system, and we have to do this many many times before the system becomes vulnerable. When we do this, they form a fleet to counter us. There are FC's that will form what they can in time to try and deny us the plex but that is rare indeed. Most of the time they run and by the time their blob arrives we've completed our mission and are back at the station with mugs of cocoa and celebratory marshmallows. What happens rarely though, is that the blob beats the timer, and we fight and die, because the longer we hold that point in space, the longer we have to form up a new gang to find other points and harrass their fleet as it disbands. If we ran at the first sign of every blob, then we'd still be sitting in Kuomi wondering why Kourmonen and the other systems were marked as Minmatar Occupancy, and why they had all the cocoa. In short, we don't go out of our way to engage the blob, but sometimes we have to. We clearly are doing something right, though, because not only have we captured those systems, but our kills per pilot has been consistently above all other militias since the start of the war - despite being heavily outnumbered.
Rai Khan	Posted - 2008.12.03 01:31:00 - [20] I do not fully understand the fix installation reference, but if it is plex capturing as the reason that the FC accepted 1:3 odds then why complain about it. All is fair in love and war. Many people in FW take their tech 1 frig against HAC's and Recon in the hopes of running the timer to completion before they die, don't see them running to the forum to bash the other side when they lose.
Foolish Bob Caldari The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2008.12.03 02:54:00 - [21] Originally by: Rai Khan I do not fully understand the fix installation reference, but if it is plex capturing as the reason that the FC accepted 1:3 odds then why complain about it. All is fair in love and war. Many people in FW take their tech 1 frig against HAC's and Recon in the hopes of running the timer to completion before they die, don't see them running to the forum to bash the other side when they lose. which is entirely my original point Originally by: Foolish Bob The crux of my rant is when they have a fleet that can take us and they retreat to find more people, or just flat out retreat, which happens time after time after time. I explicitly said in the OP that it wasn't about the loss. What's pushed my rant button (admittedly a shockingly easy button to push) is the general comportment of the Minmatar milita. There is no reason for their behaviour other than cowardice, and in that case - especially if I want to do something about it - then I'm absolutely within my rights to call them on it, and if in the process I've stoked the fires ever hotter on my side, well, then I'm not above doing that either. You might even have a point if what I was doing was bashing, but again, from the text of my posts, I've done no such thing. The bottom line is that I'm here to have some glorious battles. I'm not, by and large, and the reason I'm not usually has a red square with a white star, which is one thing when it's a small gang running from a 10 man fleet, but quite another when it's a 25 man fleet running from a 20 man one, or when an fc is so scared of loosing his precious ships that he calls in carrier support to deal with a small BC gang. So, do I have the right to complain about the loss? No. Should I call a spade a spade - you're damn right I should, which leads me back here
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.12.03 07:38:00 - [22] Do you think your god will help you if you just whine loud enough? Pathetic.
Aria Jenneth Caldari Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.12.03 07:47:00 - [23] Gods and spirits, pilot, will you please stop whining? Deception is an elementary component of combat. Anticipating deception is its necessary counter, and unless that opposing FC knew to a certainty that you had nothing up your sleeve, engaging an apparently inferior force that seems to be looking for a fight is begging to end up a victim. The obvious solution? Drop a trump card: all the kills, much less of the risk (unless what you've got up your sleeve is another trump), and it keeps the cap ship pilots entertained. If this bothers you so much, as it perhaps should if only because Ushra'Khan having a cap fleet on tap is bad for you, I suggest you cease raving and spend the time arranging a counter or workaround, instead. This isn't MindClash you're playing at; it's war. Anyone who engages on his enemy's terms is either a Demented thrill-seeker or a fool.
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.12.03 10:18:00 - [24] Poreuomai imagines U'K making the following statement: "I am sorry dear slaves - you will have to remain in captivity for a bit longer because we must only fight on equal terms and must not use all our firepower, I'm sure you understand". Not going to happen. *Let My People Go*
Lycana Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.03 10:44:00 - [25] I wonder, Foolish Bob, how you earned your title. Or I would wonder, if you weren't making it so abundantly clear. Never expect the enemy to fight fair. Never expect them to bring even odds to a fight if they could bring better ones instead. Don't pretend that Ushra'khan is somehow outside the arena of this war and that calling in their support is cheating. Don't pretend that the Minmatar are somehow cheating when they bring superior numbers or hulls into a fight. Learn the lesson of the Khanid: If you're going to fight body to body, make sure you have the better body!
Ugleb Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.12.03 11:51:00 - [26] Originally by: Foolish Bob Originally by: Karn Mithralia Such a statement was a joke you cretin. No, it wasn't. It is a statement of unequivocal fact that U'K has played an active role in this war from the start, camping gates and suchlike. Dropping 20 capital ships into combat is, in your minds, a display of power. So was the comment earlier. You don't get to backtrack just because I pointed out that it's the opposite. If I didn't loathe them quite so much I would applaud the SPCS and other agencies for their apparent success. They appear to have eliminated the concept of sarcasm from their underlings almost entirely! That must make them so much easier to keep under the Imperial thumb. Contact the Sarz'na Khumatari
Cribb Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.12.03 12:03:00 - [27] Is it not the point of war that he who has the strength, power and cuningness usally wins? Ps: this ain't propaganda it's whining ------- When in doubt, play loud
Foolish Bob Caldari The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2008.12.03 12:55:00 - [28] Edited by: Foolish Bob on 03/12/2008 13:00:47 Edited by: Foolish Bob on 03/12/2008 12:56:08 wow - such vitriol. I guess I really have touched a nerve. At the end of the day, I set out what was wrong with the Minmatar Milita as I saw it in a logical and rational argument. I then defended it when one of your own number engaged in valid criticism of my position. If at the end of rational discourse all you can come up with - the only thing you can possibly think of to say - is "STFU whiner" well, then I can't help you. You can stay safe in your blob thinking that it makes you strong, and continue to look out fearfully into the night. As to the charge that "this is not mindclash" well, sorry but in a war - especially here, psychology is everything, and just as I can't complain if I loose a ship to the blob, you don't get to do the same because I'm doing it better than you are. As to the charge that it's unreasonable to expect to tell the slaves to hold on because you have to fight fairly, again, the problem is not that - it's that your militia is saying "I'm sorry, you'll have to remain slaves a while longer because we're not sure that this superior fleet we have can beat your oppressors so we need to get more. Ok, we probably won't arrive in time to make a difference but we have to do it this way. We care about your suffering and dying! Honest! It's just we don't want to risk it. I hope you understand" Ultimately you have made this thread a vibrant microcosm of the point I was trying to make. Rai Khan shows everyone what the Minmatar Militia could be (whether he bought my argument or not). The rest of you show everyone what it is. And so, again I re-iterate my point in as succinct a way as I can. Be more like Rai.
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.12.03 13:40:00 - [29] Originally by: Cribb Is it not the point of war that he who has the strength, power and cuningness usally wins? You're underestimating the value of morale. Not surprising, really - the Minmatar and Amarr both seem to have limitless reserves of the stuff and are quite willing to die to the last man. - Captain Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Frank Monkey Gallente Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes	Posted - 2008.12.03 15:16:00 - [30] The problem is that a good proportion of the militia's on ALL sides are cowards. For a large proportion 'gang-banging' is all they can do. They can't and won't fight on their own, or in small gangs [2-4]. They will only go out 'to fight' in a nice protective blob. If you look at the stats of the pilots and it reads 200+ kills and less than handful are solo kills [in many cases never a one] you will understand what I mean. Many pilots you look at they do little to no damage in fights and just 'stick a gun on everything' during engagements so they get kills and 'look uber' and think they are like 'uber'. No, you are not uber. They are pathetic. Just wait for the whinging, whining responses after this. Pilots with cohones, put it on the line. They solo kill, they do damage or they perform brave selfless tasks, like going down to keep a point on a more powerful ship, until the cavalry arrive. In fleet/gang engagements they put everything on the primary, not 'sticking a gun on everything'. They fight it out, if reasonable, to the conclusion of events. I would outlaw warp core stabs except for non-combat ships, like transports. Pussies use them. I lift my hat to those who fight on their own, often outnumbered and outgunned. I bow to those that carry it off and defeat more than their number. They are the true pilots. Disdain for the rest. Frank Monkey ...of Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes

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