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Ankhesentapemkah
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Posted - 2008.12.03 00:22:00 -
[1]
As can be read in this thread, criminals are once again destroying ships without consequence, even if they are already at -10 security status.
The method:
* Fly into empire in pod
* Let neutral alt pile up ships in safespot (either with Orca or by ejecting)
* Board ships and fly to belt
* Activate smartbombs or ortherwise gank some targets
* Let neutral alt loot the wrecks
* Repeat
Apparantly this system allows these players to ignore the limitations imposed by their security status, and are able to attack people with impunity.
My personal gripe is not the suicide ganking itself, it is the fact that there are no consequences. The criminals do not lose much because of insurance, and are not affected by the security status hit. It once again is a easy way to make money. A clever use of a loophole in the system, sure, but I'm sure that CCP intends that suicide ganking should have consequences.
Discuss, and do not hesitate to offer your suggestions.
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NEW MOVIE! CSM Campaign Thread |
Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO
Minmatar
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.12.03 00:40:00 -
[2]
Get an alt of your own to shoot you with a civilian railgun in the belt you are mining.
Instant concord bodyguards.
___________________
Yes I'm bitter. (the taste you can see!)
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Haakelen
Gallente
Fire Mandrill
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Posted - 2008.12.03 00:54:00 -
[3]
Suppose there was no insurance for NPC deaths. Then suppose people were using the safespot & eject trick or Orca trick to suicide gank people at their own monetary loss. Is this 'valid' in your mind?
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.12.03 01:02:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO
Get an alt of your own to shoot you with a civilian railgun in the belt you are mining.
Instant concord bodyguards.
As much as I really have a hard time saying this.... that's a good idea.
<shudders>
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Drake Draconis
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.12.03 01:03:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Haakelen
Suppose there was no insurance for NPC deaths. Then suppose people were using the safespot & eject trick or Orca trick to suicide gank people at their own monetary loss. Is this 'valid' in your mind?
Suppose that your not really here... that this is the matrix....
Woah...
That's my way of saying what does this have to do with the price of tea in china?
As for the OP... yup... if your gonna be a  .... then be kind enough to pay the price like the rest of us.
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Haakelen
Gallente
Fire Mandrill
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Posted - 2008.12.03 01:07:00 -
[6]
What I'm asking is whether or not the OP thinks suicide ganking is the problem, or suicide ganking with mitigated losses is the problem. Because it certainly seems to me that even if insurance was removed for ships dying to CONCORD, there'd still be people complaining about suicide ganking.
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Another Forum'Alt
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Posted - 2008.12.03 01:11:00 -
[7]
1. remove insurance for being killed by CONCORD.
2. remove insurance.
Guide to forum posting |
Lanais Suleia
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Posted - 2008.12.03 01:17:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO
Get an alt of your own to shoot you with a civilian railgun in the belt you are mining.
Instant concord bodyguards.
Has been labelled an exploit from memory. |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.12.03 01:18:00 -
[9]
That's the ticket.... revoke insurance... hell.. have CONCORD fine im too.
: O )
Call it a "Gank Ticket"
"You know how much DPS you where putting out there sir?"
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Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO
Minmatar
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.12.03 01:35:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Lanais Suleia
Originally by: Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO
Get an alt of your own to shoot you with a civilian railgun in the belt you are mining.
Instant concord bodyguards.
Has been labelled an exploit from memory.
I'm doubting they've bothered to write code to look for the pattern, much less investigate them.
___________________
Yes I'm bitter. (the taste you can see!)
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evilphoenix
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.12.03 01:59:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
The method:
* Fly into empire in pod
* Let neutral alt pile up ships in safespot (either with Orca or by ejecting)
* Board ships and fly to belt
* Activate smartbombs or ortherwise gank some targets
* Let neutral alt loot the wrecks
* Repeat
Some very good ideas on this forum! What system do you hang out by the way?
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Fahtim Meidires
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.03 02:45:00 -
[12]
Are CONCORD and Pend Insurance affiliated in game?
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.03 03:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Apparantly this system allows these players to ignore the limitations imposed by their security status, and are able to attack people with impunity.
im+pu+ni+ty
ûnoun
1. exemption from punishment.
2. immunity from detrimental effects, as of an action.
Sounds to me like they're getting blown up just fine. What exactly is the problem here? Oh wait... it's the carebears not paying attention again, wanting to be able to mine in 100% safety.
Perhaps they're playing the wrong game.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.12.03 03:13:00 -
[14]
I'm sorry... but to excuse the obvious fact that they are going to great pains to subvert and avoid punishment in a system designed to discourage ganking... is just begging to get labeled an exploit.
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Idaeus
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.03 03:51:00 -
[15]
It takes a fair amount of effort and setup to pull this off. A lot more effort, in fact, then their target is taking mining/ratting away.
Add to the fact that not only do they lose their ship but there is no guarantee that decent loot will in fact drop due to the randomized nature of module/cargo destruction, I disagree with the OP's assessment that something needs to be done about it.
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Ignition SemperFi
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2008.12.03 04:07:00 -
[16]
not supported.
1. They already get killed by concord, consequence.
2. They are -10 so ANYONE can shoot them instantly, including the defense you should have.
3. They are sitting ducks when they are sitting in a SS with their pod. Take and pod em to hell.
4. Wardec said greifers, though they could all be -10 NPC pirates (including orca pilot).
5. This has always been available as a suicide gank form, the orca just makes it easier now for non BS's. Though it cant hold too many battlecruisers.
6. If you have a problem with the concord death insurance payout then please post in the threads that are already about that, not starting your own.
7. When the orca unloads ships from its hold, have your own pods dock in them.
Please stop making it sound like they have free reign to kill anyone just because they get a few shots off before the INSTANT neut, jam, web, point, and WTFdmg. Remember ccp just buffed concord against suicide ganking.
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People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.
Garmon - "I LOK ON TO ROMULAN WARBIRD AND GO POW POW POW" |
Hesod Adee
KDS Navy
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Posted - 2008.12.03 05:15:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ignition SemperFi
not supported.
1. They already get killed by concord, consequence.
Though not much of one, especially if they scan their targets beforehand.
Quote:
2. They are -10 so ANYONE can shoot them instantly, including the defense you should have.
If we can find them. Pity pods enter warp instantly and the ships aren't valid targets until the -10 pirates enter them.
Quote:
3. They are sitting ducks when they are sitting in a SS with their pod. Take and pod em to hell.
Assuming you find the SS, how exactly do you plan to get a warp disruptor on the pods before they warp away ?
Note that pods hit warp instantly, and they can see you for a few seconds before you can start to lock them as you warp in.
Quote:
4. Wardec said greifers, though they could all be -10 NPC pirates (including orca pilot).
This is an option, assuming they are in the same player corp.
Quote:
7. When the orca unloads ships from its hold, have your own pods dock in them.
Why would they be unloading ships with unknown people at their SS ?
If I was doing the ganking, I would have multiple safe spots setup in that system and the first time I see another player at one SS, we stop using that SS.
Quote:
Please stop making it sound like they have free reign to kill anyone just because they get a few shots off before the INSTANT neut, jam, web, point, and WTFdmg. Remember ccp just buffed concord against suicide ganking.
Yet the suicide ganking is still happening.
I'd suggest fixing this by the following: If a pilot is in a ship that is not yet targeted by Concord for destruction AND has a security status below -5 then if they do something to bring concord down on them, then concord will destroy their ship and pod the pilot.
If your at -4.99 and suicide gank multiple ships you won't be podded because although you hit the second ship while you were below -5, you became targeted by concord when you hit the first.
This way suicide ganking by -10s can still be profitable, just not as profitable as if they keep their security status up in the first place.
Also for those of you that got killed by a suicide gank recently I have two questions:
- How many ships attacked you ?
- What kind of a tank did you fit ?
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I support skill queues |
Pliauga
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.12.03 07:26:00 -
[18]
I'll support this, but how about this idea:
Anyone with a sec status of -5 or lower gets an instant CONCORD escort upon entering highsec. And if they try anything funny, such as entering a ship in space - pop goes the pirate ship. The NPC will cause a tiny bit of extra lag, but WTH right?
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DRONE love rulez!! 'mkay?!
. |
Furb Killer
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.12.03 07:46:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 03/12/2008 07:46:12
Originally by: Haakelen
What I'm asking is whether or not the OP thinks suicide ganking is the problem, or suicide ganking with mitigated losses is the problem.
Learn to read
Quote:
My personal gripe is not the suicide ganking itself, it is the fact that there are no consequences
If losing a fully insured ship is a consequence of suicide ganking, then losing ammo is a consequence of mission running.
If you say they should have ships defending the OP, then you just need to use those remaining brain cells. How does it help to have combat ships in a belt when they just warp in smart bombers. Before you can kill anyone of them concord does that. But not before all miners are killed.
It is just riskfree and consequence free pvp.
---------------------------------------------
Originally by: Neth'Rae
Military experts are calling this a troll.
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Scagga Laebetrovo
Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2008.12.03 08:28:00 -
[20]
I propose this solution:
- CONCORD start podding outlaws
- Prohibit outlaw clones from being based in high sec
Thoughts?
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Captain Thunk
Captain Morgan Society
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Posted - 2008.12.03 08:41:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Pliauga
I'll support this, but how about this idea:
Anyone with a sec status of -5 or lower gets an instant CONCORD escort upon entering highsec. And if they try anything funny, such as entering a ship in space - pop goes the pirate ship. The NPC will cause a tiny bit of extra lag, but WTH right?
Incorrect. It isn't "instant"
People below -5 can safely travel through high sec in a wide variety of ships - Blockade runners, Paladins, hacs, cruisers pretty much anything. Fit I-Stabs and you can warp before CONCORD turn up - so long as you don't stop or lag you'll be fine. Players cannot lock these ships either.
A couple of days ago I watched a -7.2 fly through New Caldari(1.0) in a crane with no Concord escort. I've seen a -10 in a paladin running around Jita. But this all appears to be intended game design by CCP - well, they certainly don't want to discuss agility to any degree.
Captain Thunk
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Julian Lynq
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Posted - 2008.12.03 10:43:00 -
[22]
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Rsorh Nalozigur
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Posted - 2008.12.03 11:17:00 -
[23]
Remove insurance to anyone killed by concord.
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Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2008.12.03 11:56:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Originally by: Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO
Get an alt of your own to shoot you with a civilian railgun in the belt you are mining.
Instant concord bodyguards.
As much as I really have a hard time saying this.... that's a good idea.
<shudders>
And one of the oldest in the books :)
As for the suicide ganking: I've said it b4 and I'll say it again: remove insurance for ships killed while under concord timer. The concord buff and increased security penalties could be removed again for all I care as long as the insurance thing get's fixed.
Even then there will be suiciding but it will be more 'fair'.
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Rsorh Nalozigur
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Posted - 2008.12.03 12:11:00 -
[25]
there are tons of setups available where insurance + T1 modules + T1 ship costs almost same as the insurance paid out after loosing the ship so in effect the outlaws are not getting any penalty by doing suicide ganking in the way mentioned by OP and they are getting more rewards than the risk taken. So, in short their Risk/reward factor is unbalanced and it needed to be looked into. 
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.12.03 12:14:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 03/12/2008 12:16:00
Originally by: Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO
Get an alt of your own to shoot you with a civilian railgun in the belt you are mining.
Instant concord bodyguards.
And it still change nothing: smartbomb+enough damage to kill hulks fast and Concord make 0 difference for the miners. It is revenge but no defence.
As the gankers don't get any real damage as ship loss is covered by the insurance and the loot/salvage from the destroyed ships, it is even a empty revenge.
Originally by: Haakelen
Suppose there was no insurance for NPC deaths. Then suppose people were using the safespot & eject trick or Orca trick to suicide gank people at their own monetary loss. Is this 'valid' in your mind?
In my eyes? Yes.
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.03 13:36:00 -
[27]
The solution is easy, pay attention and you will never die.
But i guess the real issue is that it makes it harder for you to run your macrominers while watching TV.
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Rsorh Nalozigur
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Posted - 2008.12.03 13:47:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Esmenet
The solution is easy, pay attention and you will never die.
But i guess the real issue is that it makes it harder for you to run your macrominers while watching TV.
What do you expect by the level of paying attention.
Someone coming out on top of you and activating smartbombs how much time you think will take them to do that and kill you.
Also for people saying keep aligned while mining, well mining lasers don't have range of missiles or artillery or turrets and you can not stay aligned and mine at same time without getting out of range of the ore you are mining.
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LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.12.03 13:53:00 -
[29]
We already discussed with CCP to remove insurance from suicide ganking. Isn't that enough?
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Ka'lorn Font'a
Amarr
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.12.03 13:55:00 -
[30]
Quote:
* Let neutral alt pile up ships in safespot (either with Orca or by ejecting)
Scan down said ships, steal said ships.
No Insurance payout from ship theft = consequence!
Ships getting blown up by Concord = consequence!
Your statement
Quote:
A clever use of a loophole in the system, sure, but I'm sure that CCP intends that suicide ganking should have consequences.
False!
Capiche?
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