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Ira Infernus
Praetorium Illegitimus The.Alliance
14
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Posted - 2012.04.09 23:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I am looking at setting up one of my toons for off grid boosting for my gangs, I am wandering how well the evasive maneuvers module works (can decrease a sig of +/- 140 to +/- 100)... how effective is sig reduction of -24%? |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1172
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Posted - 2012.04.09 23:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's ... 24% effective. It does exactly what it says. What are you looking for here? |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1500
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Posted - 2012.04.09 23:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
It generally won't help a BC being shot by a HAC much.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Ira Infernus
Praetorium Illegitimus The.Alliance
14
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Posted - 2012.04.10 00:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
mxzf wrote:It's ... 24% effective. It does exactly what it says. What are you looking for here?
24% effective at what? it obviously isnt a 24% reduction of incoming damage, its a 24% reduction of signature radius, which only really means something if you are moving while being shot at. What I am looking for here is how effective at reducing incoming damage it is if all other variables are not accounted for (so no webifiers, etc) It is obviously the same as having a reverse target painter, but few people use them because they arent THAT good.
Now what Liang said was more helpful.
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mxzf
Shovel Bros
1172
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Posted - 2012.04.10 00:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
There's way too much variability to be able to answer your question. How effective it is will vary based on what ships you're in and what is shooting you. If you take and compare the sig size of the ships you expect to be flying with to the sig size of the weapons you expect to be facing, you could have a bit of an idea, but that's circumstantial at best.
The answer is that it depends and there's no one answer to cover all situations. The reason my post was so sarcastic was that you're asking for an answer that depends on a ton of information, some of which you aren't providing (your fleet comp) and some of which you can't know 'till you're in the fight (their fleet comp). |
Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED
41
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Posted - 2012.04.10 01:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bonuses help ships geared towards these bonuses:
Sig reduction bonus on a fast interceptor / close orbiting AB frig or other ships that bet on out-tracking your guns or mitigating dmg from your missiles is ofc great.
It can help you make hard to prob ships way harder to prob or nearly unprobable without perfect skills and/or implants.
It won't make a fat-ass BC or cruiser to sig-tank. It won't make a stationary target to sig-tank.
Will make good sig tankers much better, just like a tengu with active shield bonuses will make already tanky ships super tanky, a legion will make already uber-buffer armor tanks insane, etc etc.
Use bonuses to work on your strengths, instead of patching your weaknesses. Jack of all trades, master of none they say, and links are there for the masters. Of one trade. "War does not determine who is right - only who is left." -- Bertrand Russell |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
36
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Posted - 2012.04.10 02:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
can you make a tengu unprobeable with this? as in 99% safe lvl4s in lowsec? |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
394
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Posted - 2012.04.10 02:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:can you make a tengu unprobeable with this? as in 99% safe lvl4s in lowsec?
I wouldn't say 99% safe, but yes, you will be very hard to probe. Even harder to kill if you blitz missions and generally maintain awareness about yourself and your surroundings. |
DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
1079
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Posted - 2012.04.10 02:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:can you make a tengu unprobeable with this? as in 99% safe lvl4s in lowsec? Nothing can be unprobeable now. Using ECCM fit to your Tengu, among other things, can make it reeeeeeaaalllllly difficult, though. They'll need to have perfect skills, a full set of implants, etc. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
394
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Posted - 2012.04.10 02:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:They'll need to have perfect skills, a full set of implants, etc.
You don't need a full lg-virtue set if you have perfect skills and are flying a probe bonused ship. You might need three or two, can't remember which. |
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Czeris
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
50
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Posted - 2012.04.10 04:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
They put a cap on how unscannable you can make your ship, so regardless of how many bonuses you apply there is a hard limit on it, and it can be probed down.
The sig reduction fleet bonus seems to only really be used for gangs that have it as a primary part of their doctrine like armor HACs. There are usually better bonuses to use for other fleet comps. |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
287
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Posted - 2012.04.10 05:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Oh hey, actual experience here!
The evasive maneuvering sig radius reduction will help you avoid damage, and will make your enemies take longer to lock you. For example, if you hit an MWD the sig of a BC goes to 1800m. With an evasive maneuvering module online, it is down at 1200m. This may be the half second you need to get off gate without being tackled.
Second effect comes into play mostly at range. Liang is right that, generally speaking, when you are tackled at close range by a HAC, your BC will be toast because 24% less sig doesn't matter when the HAC can track you perfectly with medium sized guns. So you can't fit a boosting Loki with the evasive link and go in to brawl with HACs like a bawss.
You can, however, take a 100MN AB Tengu with an already crazily low sig radius for its speed, and chop 24% off that. Then add your rapid maneuvering gang link to make it go 35% faster, and you have a deadly combination of uber-fast and low-sig. This makes missiles, particularly, basically useless against you. Then you get the interdiction link and a faction dissy and kite the canes with good tracking at 40km, outside their effective ranges, at speeds too fast for arty canes to track, and make a hefty YoutTube video. Then some guy will make a "nerf tengu" poast. Job done.
Another use, again at range, is the sniper fleets (which, eg, Liang hasn't encountered). These are generally 10++ Nagas, a couple of Huginns, a Lachesis and a Claymore. Or off-grid Loki, depending. Your DPS sits at 120km, your Lachesis and Huginns come in to 70km; with the three skirmish links running, whatever can hit you (Tornados, oracles, Nagas) does much less DPS because of the evasive maneuvering link. Your Lachesis gets point at 80km, your huginns TP the primary and web the crap out of anything which tries for tackle.
I have seen a 10 naga fleet evaporate a 60 man Drake blob and the FC gave the Admiral Beatty line "something seems to be wrong with our bloody ships" because while we could hit the Huginns, we couldn't actually do any DPS. That was the effect of the evasive maneuvering gang link.
TL;DR - its not for every situation, but it DOES help The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu https://twitter.com/#/trinketsfriend
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1504
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Posted - 2012.04.10 06:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
Do you have any idea how carefully I worded what I said? At least you didn't touch on the best uses.
-Liang
Ed: You kinda did, but indirectly. Dammit. Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Crellion
Parental Control
13
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Posted - 2012.04.10 07:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote: Your DPS sits at 120km,
noob Draek no reinj!
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Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
288
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Posted - 2012.04.10 07:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
Crellion wrote:Trinkets friend wrote: Your DPS sits at 120km, noob Draek no reinj!
No more red cordial for you, my man.
The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu https://twitter.com/#/trinketsfriend
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3295
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Posted - 2012.04.10 08:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:can you make a tengu unprobeable with this? as in 99% safe lvl4s in lowsec?
It's a big help, certainly - especially when you combine it with Halo implants. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3295
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Posted - 2012.04.10 08:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:can you make a tengu unprobeable with this? as in 99% safe lvl4s in lowsec? I wouldn't say 99% safe, but yes, you will be very hard to probe. Even harder to kill if you blitz missions and generally maintain awareness about yourself and your surroundings.
Indeed, it's not so much "unprobeable" but "takes long enough to probe that you can actually reasonably evade being probed down". My generaly rule of thumb was to keep an eye out for probes on max range DSCAN, pull scan down to successively closer ranges and then GTFO when I saw 4+ probes within 2 AU. Never lost a mission ship in 9 months of whoring Angel missions in Hale.
FAKE EDIT: But sometimes you get that "something is not right" feeling, even when the probes aren't that close. DO NOT IGNORE THAT FEELING.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
205
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Posted - 2012.04.10 11:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sig Radius math looks like this: Guns: Tracking * (target sig radius / gun sig resolution) Missiles: Explosion velocity * (target sig radius / explosion radius)
So being 24% smaller makes you 24% better at speed tanking, its really that simple in theory. Tho if you are bad at keeping speed / angular velocity up then it doesnt do much at all. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3295
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Posted - 2012.04.10 14:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
You also get specific cases like bombs, where a 24% reduction in sig translates to a straight up 24% reduction in damage received (assuming you were at 400m or less), and lock speed. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Dibblerette
The Phantom Regiment The House Of Cards.
48
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Posted - 2012.04.11 17:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
With the proper setup, you can get a Loki down to the signature of a medium-large frigate, but still have T3 resists and a 1600mm plate. The fit I saw was dualprop, so you need the EHP to get in close with the MWD, but once you're under the guns with your AB on, you'd be damn difficult to get rid of, especially for anything with large guns. |
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