| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Cpt Bunny
Gallente
War inc
   |
Posted - 2008.12.04 21:22:00 -
[1]
Hi everyone,
Ive been working on a Market data system for some time now and i thought i would mention the basics of the system here as i have a few questions that i need help with. The system is an access 2007 Database with lots of VBA. ive been working with very large access applications commercially for a long time, and this is what im currently working on.
Trader AI Key functions
Hub Locator
Using market data imports, analize all systems buy and sell order activity to determine the most active Hub for any given product
Sort systems in order of activity, or lack of activity in recognised hub systems.
Best Buy Locator
Find the best possible (Low Cost) sell orders for any given product, showing historical data on previous sell orders (Get to know where the builders sell their stock frequently) This will help find the most consistant and reliable system to buy your stock. (User defined search critera ; Sec Status, Req Vol )
Best Sell Locator
Like Above, but looking for the Highest time consistant sell orders to be under-cut.
Stock Manager
Automatically select and create your product lists based on which market data you export. Perform stock checks by adding in your current volume to calculate your Net Worth.
Fast Cash Locator
Look for immediate buy orders to be filled, again, this may be improved with historical data to show trends on where fast cash can be made.
Product Analizer
Determine how big the market is for any given product in any given system, this may help determine how much stock to carry for a given time period
Random thoughts / Ideas
Im thinking about tracking specific market orders, to determine exactly how much product is being sold, Can anyone tell me if Order ID i.e. "929333204" is a unique order identifier ? My idea is to tract this over time measuring the diffrences in other peoples orders. 1 reason for this is that i dont think i can extract the historical data from the eve market screen, i.e. volume sold each day.
Do you guys save up all your old market exports ? are these of value to you ?
Is there anything you might suggest that i can add into the system ? Anyways, tell me what you think.
|
Damien Jax
Chaos Faction
|
Posted - 2008.12.04 21:45:00 -
[2]
This would be a great program if you can get it working properly. Can you make pretty little graphs to show the average trend line for prices on the buy/sell sides?
Also, price history would be good too so that you can see if a price is near a high or low for that item.
I like the concept, do you have any beta versions? Or have you not started on this yet?
|
Cpt Bunny
Gallente
War inc
|
Posted - 2008.12.04 21:53:00 -
[3]
I started on this system originally about a year ago, but due to illness had to leave eve for a bit,
Its running now, all the market data import backup and export is working perfectly, it runs in the background importing anything you export from eve once every minute. creates a back file of that market order then deletes the one in the eve folder ( duplication purposes) Working on the Hub locator at the moment,
its a hell of a project, but all the info i need to do it seems to be there. well almost,
Hopefully i can have something to show you in a day or 2 
|
Snasty
Caldari
The Hippies
House of Mercury
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 00:28:00 -
[4]
Groovy, cant wait to see it....
|
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 00:40:00 -
[5]
Will you make the source code available?
If so then I can't wait.
|
SencneS
Amarr
Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 04:51:00 -
[6]
Not to bust your bubble here, but how do you plan on picking up buy and sell orders that a canceled?
I mean I could break your formula by placing a sell order 0.01 higher then the highest sell order in a region, then 5 minutes later cancel it. The system would have picked up my sell order on one scan, then the next it's gone so it would have to assume it was all sold. It would screw up the averages.
Like wise I could place 10,000,000,000 units of trit for 0.01 ISK each. Wait a day or two, and cancel the order. The Log could show 10Billion units at 0.01 was sold.
Amarr for Life |
Troj'n Raz
Minmatar
Maelstrom Crew
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 06:47:00 -
[7]
I recommend compatibility with the Eve Central Nightly dumps. The format of the dump file differs from the market export function...the columns are in a different order and additional data is applied, such as when the file was uploaded, etc. With this, you can maintain an essential data pool to draw some of your stats from.
You do, however, get ALL the market uploads to Eve Central...nothing to sneeze at there.
Looking forward to this development. I'm currently working on something similar for personal use, mostly so I can learn Access. Needless to say, it's not going well. :)
|
Linia
Gallente
Linia Corp
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 07:07:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Grendell
Will you make the source code available?
If so then I can't wait.
OMG its you from Hold'em 
HAI *waves* 
|
Cpt Bunny
Gallente
War inc
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 08:48:00 -
[9]
"Will you make the source code available?
If so then I can't wait.Wink"
Well its in access, it will also be uncompiled, at least initially, as i will need feedback/bug testing. it will also make it easy to spot any nasties that ppl will assume are there.
I intend to release an alpha version as a review copy to a few well known marketeers, then take it from there.
"Not to bust your bubble here, but how do you plan on picking up buy and sell orders that a canceled?
I mean I could break your formula by placing a sell order 0.01 higher then the highest sell order in a region, then 5 minutes later cancel it. The system would have picked up my sell order on one scan, then the next it's gone so it would have to assume it was all sold. It would screw up the averages.
Like wise I could place 10,000,000,000 units of trit for 0.01 ISK each. Wait a day or two, and cancel the order. The Log could show 10Billion units at 0.01 was sold." Sencens
your absolutly right, but i expect that scenario to be the exception in some very specifit market areas. it does and will happen, but usually in very small volumes. i allready have the ability to set the order ammount. its nice to be able to ignore the 1 item orders that dont fully represent the market. unless i can find a better method, this one will need to do.
"I recommend compatibility with the Eve Central Nightly dumps. The format of the dump file differs from the market export function...the columns are in a different order and additional data is applied, such as when the file was uploaded, etc. With this, you can maintain an essential data pool to draw some of your stats from.
Its allready compatible :)
You do, however, get ALL the market uploads to Eve Central...nothing to sneeze at there.
Looking forward to this development. I'm currently working on something similar for personal use, mostly so I can learn Access. Needless to say, it's not going well. :)"
Love access, its a very underused and misunderstood application, ive written telco billing systems, 40m record 2000 user marketing systems and even a blackjack simulator in it, (when learning to card count) :p im a bit rusty too, but its all comming back to me.
i wouldnt call myself a programmer, as i know programmers and wouldnt even compare myself to them (real geniuses) but i do know data and enough vb/vba to manipulate it, and access does the rest.
|
Damien Jax
Chaos Faction
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 16:09:00 -
[10]
Perhaps you should throw out outliers if someone does the 10b trit at 0.01isk sell orders. Perhaps only include data that's 2-3 standard deviations away from the mean prices.
|
Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 16:34:00 -
[11]
Interesting project - you're in for a lot of late nights, coffee and panadol if you plan on pulling this off properly :) Good luck though.
RPGN.net Gaming Network - Eve Gaming News, Forums & Blog
Nutwork Web Design - Designing Websites for Eve Online |
Cpt Bunny
Gallente
War inc
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 17:03:00 -
[12]
made good progrerss today,
starting to find some nice features that i can add in, imagine the standard split pane trade windom, but you can now select a region or a system to look at, you can also select the top pane to be a global view on trade, with no specific area set, vs the bottom pane whichis sell orders, again setting a system/region or global view.
onto a tricky part now, trying to time slice the data. as all historical data is there, the MArket browser window will default to the most recent data, but with a pre populated combo box show what other dates you have data for, (add a calendar control later) now you can look at the market as a snapshop in the past.
im considering not limiting the lower window to buy orders. but opening it up so you can set independent system /region and or time so you can easly compare.
also added in to the basic trade browser , conditional formating on sec status, red v green and total order value (price * volume) for an at a glance idea how it an entire order is worth. (these should have been in eve market window from day 1.
tomorrow i will have some screenies :)
|
Cpt Bunny
Gallente
War inc
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 17:09:00 -
[13]
The ability to look at other systems / regions could be a nice game mechanic,
Think about this: flying through space system after system dropping satalites that will allow me to manage remote market orders from my HQ and occationally probing out competitors satalites and destroying them as and when. Financial warfare lvl 1 
i think this was in x beyond.
|
Damien Jax
Chaos Faction
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 18:53:00 -
[14]
Keep up the good work, I'm sure we can donate some iskies your way if it's something we all grow to love.
As for the satelites, that'd be a good feature, especially if you can put up satelites to spy and alert you if some ******* you hate enters the system :P great for bounty hunting!
|
Cpt Bunny
Gallente
War inc
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 21:08:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Cpt Bunny on 05/12/2008 21:11:00
Edited by: Cpt Bunny on 05/12/2008 21:10:45
Added 2 Screenies today,
Screenie 1
Screenie 2
Its moving along fairly fast today, need to tidy up the data management screen a bit, then tomorrow i will post it on eve files, hopefully i will get some feedback etc.
remember: you will need office 2007 for this, you might be able to rrent a copy :p
oh btw, im building this at 1280X1024 rez, im not used to building apps for multiple enviroments. it might look odd on anything less.
|
Damien Jax
Chaos Faction
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 21:23:00 -
[16]
Bunny, screenies look pretty good. Something to auto-calculate a potential profit if you match up a buy and a sell order would be good.
Sort of like how eve-central has it, they match up a sell order and a buy order and display the profit potential and the profit per jump to that system.
I'm at work, but I'd like to test it out for you. I've got access 2007 at home and know how to use it :P
|
Cpt Bunny
Gallente
War inc
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 21:30:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Damien Jax
Bunny, screenies look pretty good. Something to auto-calculate a potential profit if you match up a buy and a sell order would be good.
Sort of like how eve-central has it, they match up a sell order and a buy order and display the profit potential and the profit per jump to that system.
I'm at work, but I'd like to test it out for you. I've got access 2007 at home and know how to use it :P
yep, that will be linked to the product list, where you manage your stock, you will be able to click on items that you stock and source the best buy orders. as for matching sell to buy orders, i used to trade that way, but now i just look at sell orders i dont really bother with buy orders, as you can always sell for more, if anything match sell order to higher sell order , then undercut :p
|
Brigitte Helm
Minmatar
Flying Fox Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 21:52:00 -
[18]
I have been thinking about something like this for a while.
In addition I have two ideas. To also include a route finder to tell you how far you would have to go to sell/buy at that price. So you could at the travel time into the cost of the item.
The other idea was to track the stock value, not against the fixed market value, but instead against the cost of the stock itself.
So for example;
if you bought 100 @ 50 isk the stock value would be 5000.
If you bought another 100 @ 150 is the stock value would be 200000
if you sold them all at 100 isk - no profit
if you sold 100 at 100isk then you would make 5000 isk profit
but the next 100 you sell at 100 isk would be 5000 isk lost...
not sure if that would be useful but hey... brain working ish
Hug a Carebear, Kill a pirate, squish a Rat, and tickle a dev.
Make Eve fun.... |
Cpt Bunny
Gallente
War inc
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 22:07:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Brigitte Helm
I have been thinking about something like this for a while.
In addition I have two ideas. To also include a route finder to tell you how far you would have to go to sell/buy at that price. So you could at the travel time into the cost of the item.
The other idea was to track the stock value, not against the fixed market value, but instead against the cost of the stock itself.
So for example;
if you bought 100 @ 50 isk the stock value would be 5000.
If you bought another 100 @ 150 is the stock value would be 200000
if you sold them all at 100 isk - no profit
if you sold 100 at 100isk then you would make 5000 isk profit
but the next 100 you sell at 100 isk would be 5000 isk lost...
not sure if that would be useful but hey... brain working ish
I have had a look at the route finding possibilities and the map data, and i can honestly say its beyond my capabilites, but once i have a working version out there, someone else may add that functionality in.
As for the running Tally on product sales, it would work, but would mean ajusting prices and stock levels religiously, i doubt many would keep that detailed a record, what will be there is to set your profit margins on a per item basis, and use that to show selling locations that are above your min margin, well thats the intention at least, Stock management is for tomorrow :)
|
Brigitte Helm
Minmatar
Flying Fox Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 22:42:00 -
[20]
Well if you need any help on doing anything just let me know...
I am very good at Access/vba (unfortunately it is my job) as well as stats, and randoms other programming stuff, including creating access frontends for sql databases
I have recently mastered the API extracting from Eve central and getting orders as well as stats from that... which might prove useful for it
Well I am around if you can use me...
Hug a Carebear, Kill a pirate, squish a Rat, and tickle a dev.
Make Eve fun.... |
Ambo
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.12.06 09:11:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Cpt Bunny
Originally by: Brigitte Helm
I have been thinking about something like this for a while.
In addition I have two ideas. To also include a route finder to tell you how far you would have to go to sell/buy at that price. So you could at the travel time into the cost of the item.
The other idea was to track the stock value, not against the fixed market value, but instead against the cost of the stock itself.
So for example;
if you bought 100 @ 50 isk the stock value would be 5000.
If you bought another 100 @ 150 is the stock value would be 200000
if you sold them all at 100 isk - no profit
if you sold 100 at 100isk then you would make 5000 isk profit
but the next 100 you sell at 100 isk would be 5000 isk lost...
not sure if that would be useful but hey... brain working ish
I have had a look at the route finding possibilities and the map data, and i can honestly say its beyond my capabilites, but once i have a working version out there, someone else may add that functionality in.
As for the running Tally on product sales, it would work, but would mean ajusting prices and stock levels religiously, i doubt many would keep that detailed a record, what will be there is to set your profit margins on a per item basis, and use that to show selling locations that are above your min margin, well thats the intention at least, Stock management is for tomorrow :)
It's actually easier than it looks, there is some source code in this thread. If you want to give it a go and need a hand then feel free to give me a shout.
--------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Troj'n Raz
Minmatar
Maelstrom Crew
|
Posted - 2008.12.08 14:53:00 -
[22]
Cpt Bunny...VERY interested in this. More so that I can see HOW you did it with Access. Willing to test, and learn. :)
|
Omber Zombie
|
Posted - 2008.12.08 15:54:00 -
[23]
nice project, will be happy to beta test it for you
----------------------
My Blog |
IonHammer
Minmatar
Black Avatar
Lost Sheep Domain
|
Posted - 2008.12.08 20:52:00 -
[24]
good concept
hope you work it out.
Good luck with patch days :)
If thats your real life i'm very jealous - Petwraith |
nether void
Caldari
Shrapnel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 08:21:00 -
[25]
Hehe I built something a bit similar over the weekend, except mine is centered mainly around production. It uploads buy and sell pricing, and does a bunch of other manufacturing related calcs.
VBA and SQL junkie. lol I do it at work, and at home. What a nerd.
Although building a manufacturing tool like this must be quite a bit easier than a trade tool. I don't really worry much about history, distance, etc. Just sec, which I can filter inside the game UI before the ETL process.
--------------------
|
Jettax
Gallente
The Professional's Club
The Second Genesis
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 11:39:00 -
[26]
Nice one! A proper database project if ever I saw one! Be great learning and experience bro, and should have a lot of fun too..
I think the best way to tackle this would be to focus on:
a) Getting all the data all logged logically :P
b) Having an analysis suite/library of functions to exploit the database
Don't mean to come across patronising :P I'm sure your way ahead of this!
More just throwing it out there for general discussion.
What you guys recon?
I could think of a few more analysis functions to throw in there...
How about this one:
You could relate buy/sell orders to a particular individual by purchase/selling a single product. Obviously this can't be done for everything, but it could extremely useful for high volume low value items in particular. I mean it could be verry interesting to know that individual X has 400billion isk of active mineral orders.. a lot of strategic potential even beyond direct trade applications..
|
nether void
Caldari
Shrapnel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 15:45:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jettax
a) Getting all the data all logged logically :P
This is the crux of any good information solution. In my experience, it's also usually not done very well.
--------------------
|
hantaki meegie
|
Posted - 2008.12.24 13:38:00 -
[28]
Hi,
How do I retreive data from eve-online in my access database?
hantaki meegie
|
Jarlath Zaid
|
Posted - 2008.12.24 22:49:00 -
[29]
Looks like a great program you've got there, looking forward to using it. Can you test it's compatibility with openoffice.org?
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |