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fugazii Slippery Penguin 10	Posted - 2012.04.10 18:38:00 - [1] - Quote It all began a few days ago on the Bulk Trade mailing list. For the past few months I have been trading under the name "Joyous the". I would post this with that chara, but I do not use alts on the forum(for actual posts). Never have But let me back up first. It is after all, from A-Z I've been playing since 03, various money making schemes over the years. When GTCs were big I got into that game http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=418479 I ran it, noone was bigger at the time. I won, it got boring, got old, gave it to a friend and he made it bigger, ended up financing the building of Deklein region with the isk Later on I returned to the game, Delve war1. All of EVE was amassed against BoB. Through chance I came about a business model. I was in Triumvirate 1 at the time, we owned Deklein. Having spent years in the North I know Gurista space very well. Back then farming was still being done by Chinese players, not bots, and corpless. Since all of EVE was blue except for BoBs space I realized if I could get a corp into a 0.0 alliance I could have standings with nearly all of EVE. I did this, and using my characters I traveled around the North camping the Chinese population forcing them into my corp and taxing them 9%. In return I would help them with logistics, and above all else they are now blue to the local alliances. I learned to speak basic Chinese during this time. I grew my corp till we had 90% of the corpless Chinese in Gurista space residing within it. My name grew within the Chinese community and since all of EVE was blue, I opened up offices in the South and they would voluntarily join. It however got too big, peak times 40-50 ravens online. I got burnt out because after all, this was just a 1 man operation. I gave it up, having built the largest Chinese corp of the day, I got it to where I wanted and quit. I want to stress I never RMT'd, broke any rules, I only taxed players. What they do with their accounts is not my concern. When the NAGA corp decided to stop producing I got into the t2 bpo game. Suddenly after many years of producers not knowing the worth of their bpos, they now have them back. Some of the major players at the time was me Storwin Winters and Skilz. I started behind them with little isk to my name but quickly caught up. Within months I turned a single digit into tripple. We progressed the t2 bpo market to the prices they are today, constantly flipping. Boredom came about again and I gave away most and left I can back to the game recently. I wanted a new challenge. I saw how much isk people had floating around but I also saw that prices on moduals hadn't increased. This is where I would come in. But first I need capitol. The ice interdiction just started. I was there ground floor, and I never sold till the final push 2 days prior to it all crashing when it peaked above 2k. I spent some time in Fountain doing complexes during this time while sitting on my stack Then a month or 2 ago I started my buyouts of entire EVE markets of moduals. Toppling Jita, Amarr, Dodixie, and Rens simultaneously. Started small I took out the ECM markets, Adaptive Nanos, and Crokite crystals, let them run their coarse, eventually dropping back down. Then brought everything back up. Then I went after Sensor Boosters. The volume of this product gave it a different dynamic than the others. I made a killing, but also learned some valuable lessons and how to continue in the future. Lessons I have applied to the Diag market. It's going well Being a 1 man operation has its drawbacks however. It's alot of things to do. So I've reached out to other traders while doing this, giving huge discounts on massive quantities of moduals. I keep everyone informed, it's in my best interest that they do not lose money because that means they will not come back for repeat business. I sell on the open market, but most of my sales are to traders, I try not to overly compete because I rather them exaust their stocks and come back for more. It's easier on my end that way. My business model is essentially to finance the rise and stability of the market, while offloading stock to traders at discount rates so everyone makes isk So I sold {The Jewels of your Desire} as I called it, in the bulk trade mailing list. It reaches a wide audience and allows me to effectively explain pricing, discounts, sales, and package deals on a broad basis rather than a small spam in a trade channel. I never hid the fact that I was adjusting the market, it was quiet obvious. Couple weeks back I ran a sale stating anyone who bought over 500 units that day would know my move for the next day. The traders who did buy knew that the next day Target Painters would be worth 400k more, they made alot of isk However on Sunday morning w3370pi4 the creator of the mailing list, and the legit trade channel decided that what I was doing is a scam and banned me. The rule fundamental to the creation of this mailing list This mailing list is based on the free market rule( like the economy in eve online ) so you are free to put any price tag you want on your items. . ( however i strongly recommend that you price them at least lower than the major market hub ( jita / amarr / dodixie / rens ) closest to your goods The free market needs to be preserved. I have never scammed anyone, you ask for a product you get the product aswell as as much information I can give about the futures of that product. It's fundamental to keeping what I'm doing running. If you are going to tout a free market system, then you cannot cut out people whom you feel are charging a price you don't seem fit. It's contradictory So this is what I'm asking of you, the reader. w3370pi4 is holding a vote to decide if Bulk Trade should be a free market, to allow people to charge what they see fit. I need you to vote yes in favor of me. A simple mail containing "yes for free trade" to w3370pi4 Thanks.
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 184	Posted - 2012.04.10 18:51:00 - [2] - Quote tl:dr
Lauren Hellfury Full Pocket Aggro In Vitro. 309	Posted - 2012.04.10 18:56:00 - [3] - Quote market manipulator uses bulk trade mailing list to offload stocks and gets banned, tries to get rules changed. Help rid New Eden of T2 BPOs:-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62797 The Full Pocket Aggro blog:-á http://fullpocketaggro.blogspot.com/ Now showing: The incursion situation
fugazii Slippery Penguin 10	Posted - 2012.04.10 18:57:00 - [4] - Quote Nope, don't read it if you don't want to.
fugazii Slippery Penguin 10	Posted - 2012.04.10 18:59:00 - [5] - Quote Lauren Hellfury wrote: market manipulator uses bulk trade mailing list to offload stocks and gets banned, tries to get rules changed. No, market manipulator uses bulk trade mailing list to offload stocks and gets banned. But for a reason that was never a rule. And is a contradiction of what the whole purpose of the channel is supposed to be. A free market.
Lauren Hellfury Full Pocket Aggro In Vitro. 309	Posted - 2012.04.10 19:03:00 - [6] - Quote it's been a long-standing thing that such actions result in a ban from the list. if you've been on it for a while you'll have seen banning notices on the subject. but at the end of the day it's weet's list and he can do pretty much whatever he likes. anything that can be viewed by the majority as a protective measure for them will generate more goodwill than is lost from those that are banned. Help rid New Eden of T2 BPOs:-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62797 The Full Pocket Aggro blog:-á http://fullpocketaggro.blogspot.com/ Now showing: The incursion situation
Lecherito Swag Incorporated 5	Posted - 2012.04.10 19:06:00 - [7] - Quote Eh, I've been banned several times from both legit trade and bulk trade. The fact of the matter is that w3370pi4 , the "operator" of the channels,is an absolute **** on a power trip. Moreover, he is offensively shortsighted and inarticulate. Eve would be a lot better off if he were removed from power, either directly or by proxy. Ps, I'm on board with OP's belief that his conduct was not "scammy." Otherwise, what do you call the plethora of people selling massive stacks of modules in Jita 4--4 for mere pennies below the current sell price, and thus impossible to turn any sort of profit? -L
fugazii Slippery Penguin 11	Posted - 2012.04.10 19:07:00 - [8] - Quote Lauren Hellfury wrote: it's been a long-standing thing that such actions result in a ban from the list. if you've been on it for a while you'll have seen banning notices on the subject. but at the end of the day it's weet's list and he can do pretty much whatever he likes. anything that can be viewed by the majority as a protective measure for them will generate more goodwill than is lost from those that are banned. I have been with w33 since day 1. It is w33 list, and he can do what he likes. He is doing a vote, therefor I am telling you and everyone else; who I am, what I do and why you should vote in my favor. That is all.
corestwo Goonfleet Investment Banking 162	Posted - 2012.04.10 19:08:00 - [9] - Quote :qq:
Smoke Adian 13	Posted - 2012.04.10 19:32:00 - [10] - Quote Long time user of bulk trade for my empire alts. I'm a very small time industrialist and just this week made almost a bill off a manufacturing run that cost 78m. This was thanks to one of Joyous the's manipulations and advertisement of said manipulation via the mailing list (when I say advertise, I mean he offered the item for sale which of course tips everyone off to the manipulated item). I don't understand why this would be banned. He is making a killing as are the denizens of the market list who take advantage of either his sales or the information. All parties involved are making a big profit - where's the victim? Where's the scam? I suppose he could add a tag to his mails to indicate the risk involved, but I really don't have much sympathy for people who buy a huge quantity of items without a cursory check of the market trends etc. tl:dr, send w3370p14 an evemail with the subject "yes" and the message "yes" as he requested .
Kirin Shiyurida Suavissimus Investments 0	Posted - 2012.04.10 22:35:00 - [11] - Quote Quote: ...decided that what I was doing is a scam and banned me. Calling it a scam might be a bit too harsh, but you aren't adding much value to the mailing list either when advertising stuff at twice the usual price. It isn't that hard to grasp that the readers can do without such great offers. Come on.. Anyway, sorry to hear the sad news. I kind of enjoyed "supplementing" your stock once in a while. Selling overpriced merchandize too you made me giggle like a little girl.
fugazii Slippery Penguin 11	Posted - 2012.04.10 23:07:00 - [12] - Quote Kirin Shiyurida wrote: Quote: ...decided that what I was doing is a scam and banned me. Calling it a scam might be a bit too harsh, but you aren't adding much value to the mailing list either when advertising stuff at twice the usual price. It isn't that hard to grasp that the readers can do without such great offers. Come on.. Anyway, sorry to hear the sad news. I kind of enjoyed "supplementing" your stock once in a while. Selling you overpriced merchandize made me giggle like a little girl. But think about it m8. The first paragraph you wrote said I added no value. Then in the second paragraph you wrote you described the value I added in direct relation to you. You proved yourself wrong. I do add value, because you know what to sell and profit off me.
Xaqa Cryptic Arch 3	Posted - 2012.04.11 00:36:00 - [13] - Quote This wasn't interesting then. This isn't interesting now. It's a free service; if you don't like it, don't use it. Or start your own. The Cryptic Arch - Always Building
kingtiger Fain Interstellar Industrial Exploitation 0	Posted - 2012.04.11 04:08:00 - [14] - Quote supporting my mentor and friend :)
fugazii Slippery Penguin 12	Posted - 2012.04.11 04:16:00 - [15] - Quote Xaqa wrote: This wasn't interesting then. This isn't interesting now. It's a free service; if you don't like it, don't use it. Or start your own. It is a free service based on the free market. I do like it, and would like to continue using it. That is why there's a vote, and that is why I'm pitching you my position for your vote. If you don't find it interesting, then simply don't read. I gave no "tldr" for a reason. And thankyou king o7
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 526	Posted - 2012.04.11 07:07:00 - [16] - Quote I can see why you should not have been banned. But I can also see why you should have been banned. Knowing the list owner, he did what he felt obvious for his personality. He has a super-strong "no sht here" approach and manipulations + social engineering smell a bit. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Mzurk Umangiar Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2012.04.11 07:26:00 - [17] - Quote fugazii wrote: It all began a few days ago on the Bulk Trade mailing list. For the past few months I have been trading under the name "Joyous the". I would post this with that chara, but I do not use alts on the forum(for actual posts). Never have But let me back up first. It is after all, from A-Z I've been playing since 03, various money making schemes over the years. When GTCs were big I got into that game http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=418479 I ran it, noone was bigger at the time. I won, it got boring, got old, gave it to a friend and he made it bigger, ended up financing the building of Deklein region with the isk Later on I returned to the game, Delve war1. All of EVE was amassed against BoB. Through chance I came about a business model. I was in Triumvirate 1 at the time, we owned Deklein. Having spent years in the North I know Gurista space very well. Back then farming was still being done by Chinese players, not bots, and corpless. Since all of EVE was blue except for BoBs space I realized if I could get a corp into a 0.0 alliance I could have standings with nearly all of EVE. I did this, and using my characters I traveled around the North camping the Chinese population forcing them into my corp and taxing them 9%. In return I would help them with logistics, and above all else they are now blue to the local alliances. I learned to speak basic Chinese during this time. I grew my corp till we had 90% of the corpless Chinese in Gurista space residing within it. My name grew within the Chinese community and since all of EVE was blue, I opened up offices in the South and they would voluntarily join. It however got too big, peak times 40-50 ravens online. I got burnt out because after all, this was just a 1 man operation. I gave it up, having built the largest Chinese corp of the day, I got it to where I wanted and quit. I want to stress I never RMT'd, broke any rules, I only taxed players. What they do with their accounts is not my concern. You knowingly facilitated botters and isk sellers. If you think you can get away with this without consequence you are dead wrong. Petitioned ingame.
fugazii Slippery Penguin 12	Posted - 2012.04.11 07:39:00 - [18] - Quote Mzurk Umangiar wrote: fugazii wrote: It all began a few days ago on the Bulk Trade mailing list. For the past few months I have been trading under the name "Joyous the". I would post this with that chara, but I do not use alts on the forum(for actual posts). Never have But let me back up first. It is after all, from A-Z I've been playing since 03, various money making schemes over the years. When GTCs were big I got into that game http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=418479 I ran it, noone was bigger at the time. I won, it got boring, got old, gave it to a friend and he made it bigger, ended up financing the building of Deklein region with the isk Later on I returned to the game, Delve war1. All of EVE was amassed against BoB. Through chance I came about a business model. I was in Triumvirate 1 at the time, we owned Deklein. Having spent years in the North I know Gurista space very well. Back then farming was still being done by Chinese players, not bots, and corpless. Since all of EVE was blue except for BoBs space I realized if I could get a corp into a 0.0 alliance I could have standings with nearly all of EVE. I did this, and using my characters I traveled around the North camping the Chinese population forcing them into my corp and taxing them 9%. In return I would help them with logistics, and above all else they are now blue to the local alliances. I learned to speak basic Chinese during this time. I grew my corp till we had 90% of the corpless Chinese in Gurista space residing within it. My name grew within the Chinese community and since all of EVE was blue, I opened up offices in the South and they would voluntarily join. It however got too big, peak times 40-50 ravens online. I got burnt out because after all, this was just a 1 man operation. I gave it up, having built the largest Chinese corp of the day, I got it to where I wanted and quit. I want to stress I never RMT'd, broke any rules, I only taxed players. What they do with their accounts is not my concern. You knowingly facilitated botters and isk sellers. If you think you can get away with this without consequence you are dead wrong. Petitioned ingame. But you are only looking at the surface m8. Yes I held the Norths Chinese population hostage for a half year. I gave them standings. I however took 9% of their earnings , which amounted to billions per week. I have done more damage to the RMT community than most players could ever dream of. This was largely before botting aswell, and I did not allow botters in my corp, only Chinese. My corp has long since been hit with a ban wave. This all happened in 2007, my characters are fine, because I never broke any rules.
XrayZII AVE EVE 10	Posted - 2012.04.11 15:44:00 - [19] - Quote That was an interesting piece of reading. Regards, X. Legit Trading / Bulk Trade ML Manager.
Raven Ether Republic University Minmatar Republic 145	Posted - 2012.04.11 15:48:00 - [20] - Quote corestwo wrote: :qq: goon qq troll best qq troll
Whiteknight03 Trilon Industries and Exploration 58	Posted - 2012.04.11 18:36:00 - [21] - Quote Came expecting a humorous story. Found the annoying weirdo who kept posting random crap on Bulk Trade. Well well well
Shar Tegral 149	Posted - 2012.04.12 10:50:00 - [22] - Quote Recently I joined in the operation of this list. I can tell you, bans are rare but when issued ruthless. W3370Pi4 doesn't have the time to coddle people, at least not like I do. Of course being nice is occasionally seen as an opportunity to be a total prick in response so I can see why he doesn't make much effort in correcting bad behavior. The bulk trade list does not enforce prices, that is clear. However using the bulk trade list to pull off pricing scams between the list and the market is simply not allowed. Farewell to poor rubbish I say. PS: Free markets, especially in Eve, are wastelands so stop being a turd on the topic.
W3370Pi4 Bloodlust Research and Development Inc 79	Posted - 2012.04.12 10:50:00 - [23] - Quote well well well ________________________________________ GåÆGÿà Join the "Legit Trading" Channel - http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Legit_Trading GåÉGÿà
Lauren Hellfury Full Pocket Aggro In Vitro. 313	Posted - 2012.04.12 11:01:00 - [24] - Quote isn't democracy wonderful? Help rid New Eden of T2 BPOs:-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62797 The Full Pocket Aggro blog:-á http://fullpocketaggro.blogspot.com/ Now showing: The incursion situation
W3370Pi4 Bloodlust Research and Development Inc 79	Posted - 2012.04.12 12:35:00 - [25] - Quote Just to clarify a couple things and i am not going to look at this crap fest ever again ( even if all publicity is publicity :D ) The rule fundamental to the creation of this mailing list IS NOT free trade ( but in this context that rule plays in fugazi's favors and he has been using this as a charger for his argumentation ) the mailing list was created at the time to fill a gap between the market and people who want to sell their things in bulk for various reasons. ( most of the rules were implemented progressively in order to minimize abuses and to increase efficiency ) i also run the legit trading channel so i am very aware of the various ways to scam and extort isk from misinformed people i want to keep the bulk trade mailing list accessible to everybody even the small time trade that starts with a 50m isk capital to the big market tycoons. The ban inflicted on Joyous the was because i do not think that it is in the interest of the mailing list users if market manipulators dump their goods falsely priced on the mailing list Because in the end the ramifications of market manipulations is that you control either supply or demand and thus control the price of the item even for a short amount of time. if the mailing list is a free playground to market manipulators i think that it will endanger the perennity of the mailing list i put some much time & devotion into. Anyway the basic decision was that i do not run this mailing list to please myself i run it for the people so i turned this incident into a vote i asked fugazii to be patient until the end of the week so the vote can run it's course i guess he is not because he is loosing isk so he started to act like an insane jerk to turn the odds in his favors after only giving people a part of the informations in this forum thread . so all votes after 2012.04.10 at 18:38 do not count and the vote is ended thus resulting in a vote of 23 no to 11 yes so market manipulators will not be allowed on the mailing list i will unban joyous the on the condition that he will not involve the mailing list in his affairs. the final decision on this issue is that i will not hunt down market manipulators on the mailing as long as they do not involve the mailing list in their schemes. The "Bulk Trade" Mailing List https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=38453 ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________ GåÆGÿà Join the "Legit Trading" Channel - http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Legit_Trading GåÉGÿà
fugazii Slippery Penguin 12	Posted - 2012.04.12 14:39:00 - [26] - Quote W3370Pi4 wrote: Just to clarify a couple things and i am not going to look at this crap fest ever again ( even if all publicity is publicity :D The rule fundamental to the creation of this mailing list IS NOT free trade ( but in this context that rule plays in fugazi's favors and he has been using this as a charger for his argumentation the mailing list was created at the time to fill a gap between the market and people who want to sell their things in bulk for various reasons. ( most of the rules were implemented progressively in order to minimize abuses and to increase efficiency i also run the legit trading channel so i am very aware of the various ways to scam and extort isk from misinformed peopl i want to keep the bulk trade mailing list accessible to everybody even the small time trade that starts with a 50m isk capital to the big market tycoons The ban inflicted on Joyous the was because i do not think that it is in the interest of the mailing list users if market manipulators dump their goods falsely priced on the mailing lis Because in the end the ramifications of market manipulations is that you control either supply or demand and thus control the price of the item even for a short amount of time if the mailing list is a free playground to market manipulators i think that it will endanger the perennity of the mailing list i put some much time & devotion into Anyway the basic decision was that i do not run this mailing list to please mysel i run it for the people so i turned this incident into a vote i asked fugazii to be patient until the end of the week so the vote can run it's course i guess he is not because he is loosing isk so he started to act like an insane jerk to turn the odds in his favors after only giving people a part of the informations in this forum thread so all votes after 2012.04.10 at 18:38 do not count and the vote is ended thus resulting in a vote of 23 no to 11 ye so market manipulators will not be allowed on the mailing list i will unban joyous the on the condition that he will not involve the mailing list in his affairs the final decision on this issue is that i will not hunt down market manipulators on the mailing as long as they do not involve the mailing list in their schemes The "Bulk Trade" Mailing List [url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=38453]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=38453[/url ---------------------------------------- You see w33, you are not looking at things deep enough. I am not losing isk. I told you in the mails to unban me because alot of your members have invested in my operation that was run through your mailing list. Banning me means I can't as easily keep liquid, which means I can't keep markets how they are, which means markets fall, which means investors lose isk, and markets free fall as panic sets in. Since I'm constantly buying as well as selling it means my product pool is constantly expanding. So even if the markets fall worst case scenario is I'm stuck with a crazy amount of product. But if markets fall for investors they're left with a devalued product that they must sell for a loss It's a situation of being win win for me, but being win lose for your members w33. This is what I tried to explain to you. This is why I approached you before writing all this to explain why I am needed to operate freely, because banning me means absolutely nothing to me but everything to anyone who has bought product from me. By banning me, you scammed everyone w33 But I am not a fool, I would not simply just quit with your shortsightedness. You wanted a vote, so you got a vote. I came to the forums to present my side of the case. My standpoint w33, why people should vote yes. You gave me no option to present my case otherwise, so it was a rigged vote in your favour. I made it open, to present my case, my pitch. You choosing to not do so is not my concern, that is poor judgment on your part. But now, after calling for a vote and the people actually seeing both positions you say that's unfair and further rig the election. So enjoy it w33, you worked so hard for many years to create a scam free trade system and in the end ended up scamming all your members. Publicly trying to scam me, and running a rigged vote. And for what? There was no victim in my operation until you tried to make me a villain o7
W3370Pi4 Bloodlust Research and Development Inc 79	Posted - 2012.04.12 15:24:00 - [27] - Quote anyway DQ you are unbanned just take it or leave it i wont discuss anymore on this matter i really dont care what people think unless they explain their point of view clearly to me wich is what you have done i listened to you and to make a compromise i decided to gather votes, on this issue i gathered votes to take a decision ( i wish more people had voted but thats how things are ) if i see a flaw with the current situation i will readjust to make sure the users are satisfied. This issue was very time consuming but i now consider it solved unless i am proved otherwise. Regards W. ________________________________________ GåÆGÿà Join the "Legit Trading" Channel - http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Legit_Trading GåÉGÿà
Gorki Andropov Kerensky Initiatives 296	Posted - 2012.04.12 15:57:00 - [28] - Quote fugazii wrote: But you are only looking at the surface m8. Yes I held the Norths Chinese population hostage for a half year. I gave them standings. I however took 9% of their earnings , which amounted to billions per week. I have done more damage to the RMT community than most players could ever dream of. This was largely before botting aswell, and I did not allow botters in my corp, only Chinese. My corp has long since been hit with a ban wave. This all happened in 2007, my characters are fine, because I never broke any rules. However, for all of this, if you knew what they were doing, directly profited from it and didn't tell CCP, then you're just as guilty as they are. All of this talk about 'holding them hostage' probably won't hold any water, considering you extracted (probably) billions from the RMT farmers - and kept this money to yourself. The correct approach would have been to petition it at the time, and get the OK from a GM.
fugazii Slippery Penguin 12	Posted - 2012.04.12 16:15:00 - [29] - Quote Gorki Andropov wrote: fugazii wrote: But you are only looking at the surface m8. Yes I held the Norths Chinese population hostage for a half year. I gave them standings. I however took 9% of their earnings , which amounted to billions per week. I have done more damage to the RMT community than most players could ever dream of. This was largely before botting aswell, and I did not allow botters in my corp, only Chinese. My corp has long since been hit with a ban wave. This all happened in 2007, my characters are fine, because I never broke any rules. However, for all of this, if you knew what they were doing, directly profited from it and didn't tell CCP, then you're just as guilty as they are. All of this talk about 'holding them hostage' probably won't hold any water, considering you extracted (probably) billions from the RMT farmers - and kept this money to yourself. The correct approach would have been to petition it at the time, and get the OK from a GM. Alleged RMTrs, I have no proof. I only sought out corpless Chinese players and I imprisoned them in my corporation through force or the allure of standings. A witch hunt really. I have no need to contact the GMs, I know the rules and if they changed something to not allow this then I would have stopped. And yes it is over w33, like I said no hard feelings, I just wanted to present my case.
Atreyu Bayne Darkdust Industries Empire 20	Posted - 2012.04.12 19:09:00 - [30] - Quote I don't see the big deal here. Dude makes a list and moderates it as he sees fit, people whine eventually as the population increases. Don't like the moderator? Don't use the list. Or alternatively, make a Bulk Trade2 This dude was nice to even allow a vote for something he made IMO.
Debiru Flashpoint Industries 2	Posted - 2012.04.12 19:36:00 - [31] - Quote Different lists have different purposes. The Bulk Trade list is not intended as part of the market manipulation system. This has nothing to do with free trade or regulated. You're not really participating in the trade, but in market speculation and manipulation, which is another aspect of the market entirely. Find a more suitable mailing list.

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