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ME reserach is impossible?

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Welktickler	Posted - 2008.12.09 13:19:00 - [1] Ok this is a noob question so please dont flame me. I have started to collect T1 BPOs so I can learn to manufacture so that when my skills are better I can try invention and T2 manufacturing. The big problem i am having that I am unable to find any where to do ME research. I have tried within a 35-40 (at least) jump radius of my corp base but still nothing. Is it normal for everywhere to be busy all the time? Should I just ignore ME research and lose profit? Has anyone got any tips for me? I am making a profit on my T1 stuff because I went for BPOs from one area that covers items that are scarce in my area plus i mine in my retriever for minerals and isk so ME would not help a lot just now but later on when I am making more complex items it could really impact?
Molock Saronen	Posted - 2008.12.09 13:28:00 - [2] Edited by: Molock Saronen on 09/12/2008 13:28:36 Ok, there are two ways to do this. a) As you said, everything is busy. But.. You can queue your own research to an already active slot. So, find one that ends 'soon' and select that one. Your job will be queued to start after the previous one is finished. And yeah, It will still take a load of time waiting. b) Become member of a corporation that has a research POS (most lickely in high-sec). Low or no waiting time, but you become part of a corporation (and you never know, you might actually like playing with others in this MMO ) Edit: Spelling
Welktickler	Posted - 2008.12.09 13:32:00 - [3] Thank very much for this info I didnt know that I could queue. This solves my issue. Told you it was a noob question My corp is talking about a POS in high sec but that is still a long time off.
Laina Delapore Caldari Red Sun Industries	Posted - 2008.12.09 13:48:00 - [4] Your other option is to find a corp in your local area who already have a POS and see if they are amenable to or actively rent out ME space in their labs. This does of course involve you handing over your precious BPOs to other people, but you can always make an item exchange contract with collateral equal to the BPOs value. ME - especially if you are mining your own minerals for manufacture, will have a significant impact. Less mineral requirements means a) less stuff used when manufacturing, so more runs and b) less time spent mining for shiny rocks because you either need less for the equivalent number of production runs or use less stock for those runs. Good luck.
brinelan Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.12.09 15:07:00 - [5] Edited by: brinelan on 09/12/2008 15:08:37 Originally by: Welktickler Ok this is a noob question so please dont flame me. I have started to collect T1 BPOs so I can learn to manufacture so that when my skills are better I can try invention and T2 manufacturing. The big problem i am having that I am unable to find any where to do ME research. I have tried within a 35-40 (at least) jump radius of my corp base but still nothing. Is it normal for everywhere to be busy all the time? Should I just ignore ME research and lose profit? Has anyone got any tips for me? I am making a profit on my T1 stuff because I went for BPOs from one area that covers items that are scarce in my area plus i mine in my retriever for minerals and isk so ME would not help a lot just now but later on when I am making more complex items it could really impact? Queue your prints like you found out. Minerals you mine are not free, so calculate their worth using local sell orders so you know if you are making or losing money Use this calculator ( http://zofu.no-ip.de/bpo )so you can find a good amount of research on them. Many people will do months and month of research (I saw 112 me on a battleship in the blueprints channel the other day. talk about a waste!) when 2 weeks will be enough. The rest of the time it is in the labs the print isn't making you money. So figure out at what point it will be not worth it to continue researching. For example, if it takes 2 weeks of research to save 1 trit, it isnt worth it. Most prints go between me1 and me20 as the optimal research levels. I have prints in my collection (small ammo and some small modules are two off the top of my head) where no research is needed at all. Spreadsheets are your friend. Openoffice and google docs are two free examples that are very good. I use both and they work great. -------------------------- Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield
Dr Sheepbringer Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.09 15:17:00 - [6] Also it's much easier to find ME slots wit reasonable queue times in low-sec/0.0. In highsec in the public ones... 2-3weeks que is GOOD QUE!!! GET IT! Stop whining.
brinelan Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.12.09 15:40:00 - [7] Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer Also it's much easier to find ME slots wit reasonable queue times in low-sec/0.0. In highsec in the public ones... 2-3weeks que is GOOD QUE!!! GET IT! See my point about an me112 battleship bpo, and overresearch. That is the cause of many of these queue problems in empire. -------------------------- Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield
Welktickler	Posted - 2008.12.09 16:17:00 - [8] More good info ty. The BPO calc looks very useful but i have no idea what to put in the ME, PE, Batch fields Also what is the diff between base lab, skill lab and POS lab times? I can imagine that people dont use good tools like this or common sense and waste time and money overdoing this <shakes heed> and causing problems for other people too. Thank you taking the time to help me guys.
brinelan Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.12.09 16:45:00 - [9] Originally by: Welktickler More good info ty. The BPO calc looks very useful but i have no idea what to put in the ME, PE, Batch fields Also what is the diff between base lab, skill lab and POS lab times? I can imagine that people dont use good tools like this or common sense and waste time and money overdoing this <shakes heed> and causing problems for other people too. Thank you taking the time to help me guys. I generally leave those blank since i am usually starting with an unresearched bpo. The times are the research times you should expect when using a pos lab, base lab (npc station). You should focus on the Base Lab time since that is what you should expect until you can get access to your own POS. Also, at the top make sure to click the dots to indicate your skill level in those two skills, since both will affects your times. The nice thiing is this tool is usable in game too. It is also helpful for finding out where to buy a particular print :) -------------------------- Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield
Welktickler	Posted - 2008.12.09 17:22:00 - [10] Originally by: brinelan I generally leave those blank since i am usually starting with an unresearched bpo. The times are the research times you should expect when using a pos lab, base lab (npc station). You should focus on the Base Lab time since that is what you should expect until you can get access to your own POS. Also, at the top make sure to click the dots to indicate your skill level in those two skills, since both will affects your times. Thank you for your help
Mistress Nyissa	Posted - 2008.12.09 18:15:00 - [11] Try this, I can vouch for the person running it - One Stop Research Alliance
foobarx	Posted - 2008.12.11 00:01:00 - [12] I agree it makes little sense to overresearch BPOs for your own production. However, if you intend to make copies for sale it's a different story. Most players don't understand the exponential nature of ME research, so they tend to overvalue it when they buy copies. If your small ammo BPC is on the market with a 20 ME and mine is at 200, my copy will fetch a premium to yours (or at least sell first), even though there's no practical difference. That 100+ ME battleship blueprint is worth acquiring if you plan to sell copies. But there's no point if you're just gonna use it to make your own ships or for invention.
Constance Harme	Posted - 2008.12.11 00:30:00 - [13] I recommend you join New Eden Research. Their lab slots are cheap and there are labs everywhere.
Darriuss Gallente Old Guard Industrialists	Posted - 2008.12.11 01:00:00 - [14] You can also buy researched BPO's. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=815331
Ishikari Gallente Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.12.11 01:38:00 - [15] Originally by: foobarx I agree it makes little sense to overresearch BPOs for your own production. However, if you intend to make copies for sale it's a different story. Most players don't understand the exponential nature of ME research, so they tend to overvalue it when they buy copies. If your small ammo BPC is on the market with a 20 ME and mine is at 200, my copy will fetch a premium to yours (or at least sell first), even though there's no practical difference. That 100+ ME battleship blueprint is worth acquiring if you plan to sell copies. But there's no point if you're just gonna use it to make your own ships or for invention. The problem with this goes back to the months of wasted research is time you aren't making money on the print. In the case of a 100me battleship, were talking what 6 months where you could be making money on that print that you lose by having it in the labs? --- Ishikari Industries
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.12.11 10:32:00 - [16] Originally by: brinelan Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer Also it's much easier to find ME slots wit reasonable queue times in low-sec/0.0. In highsec in the public ones... 2-3weeks que is GOOD QUE!!! GET IT! See my point about an me112 battleship bpo, and overresearch. That is the cause of many of these queue problems in empire. There's only one cause, and that's that the price isn't high enough. It is the regulator that should be used to regulate supply as it is in offices. Price goes up, people start evaluating if it really is worth it. Slots free up. ME112 BS BPOs were almost certainly researched at a POS, so probably don't contribute to the problem at all. Already people waiting 2-3 weeks are less likely to do research they don't need, as they will run out of slots for research they do need.
brinelan Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.12.11 16:17:00 - [17] Originally by: Lord Fitz Originally by: brinelan Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer Also it's much easier to find ME slots wit reasonable queue times in low-sec/0.0. In highsec in the public ones... 2-3weeks que is GOOD QUE!!! GET IT! See my point about an me112 battleship bpo, and overresearch. That is the cause of many of these queue problems in empire. There's only one cause, and that's that the price isn't high enough. It is the regulator that should be used to regulate supply as it is in offices. Price goes up, people start evaluating if it really is worth it. Slots free up. ME112 BS BPOs were almost certainly researched at a POS, so probably don't contribute to the problem at all. Already people waiting 2-3 weeks are less likely to do research they don't need, as they will run out of slots for research they do need. Fair enough on the pos comment, but you never know with some of the folks out there who just do it because they like industry. Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield.
Welktickler	Posted - 2008.12.11 17:29:00 - [18] There must be a solution to making this system work. The queue lengths are epic. I think I will wait till i get more skills.
brinelan Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.12.11 17:47:00 - [19] true. There are few options for folks who want to get prints in soon. Either queue the prints and wait a few weeks (hisec only. lowsec is possible if you use disposable alt scounts or friends to scout for you), join a research alliance, or put up your own pos (large capital investment without a good plan as to how youre going to make sure it pays for itself). 4th option is to buy researched prints. the blueprints channel is best for this. Good luck with whatever way you ultimately decide to go in. Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield.
Callista Omenswarm Astronautical Engineering	Posted - 2008.12.11 17:57:00 - [20] Originally by: Welktickler There must be a solution to making this system work. The queue lengths are epic. I think I will wait till i get more skills. There are a number of solutions, as mentioned, join a Research Corp/Alliance, roll your own research POS or buy BPCs off contracts. Each has relative benefits, drawbacks and costs associated so go with whichever solution best fits you. I went the POS route and I can barely find enough prints to keep researching. Be warned though, it does end up a little like Pokemon and you'll want to catch them all. Wrath Cruise Missile Blueprint, I choose YOU!
Arnold Kruger Superior Systems	Posted - 2008.12.11 18:44:00 - [21] I do to-order research as well as sell some stock at very competitive prices. Check my storefront for props from satisfied customers: Superior Systems - - SUPERIOR SYSTEMS: BPO sales, research, copying, and delivery!
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.12.11 19:05:00 - [22] Go here. Go down to "DIY Research slots". They have hisec POSes you can use to get research done at a very reasonable fee. Or you can purchase BPOs pre-researched. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Dr Sheepbringer Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.12 08:39:00 - [23] Well before I had a POS available I just used the low-sec stations. You can put prints into a shuttle and just haull ass over there. If you jump manually there is very little chance that anyone will catch you. The only problem was the lenght of the trips. It's annoying if it's a far away. If you have funding, buy the prints. Stop whining.
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.12.12 11:52:00 - [24] People have it good, once upon a time there were less slots and no queuing. You rented slots like offices (but weekly), so every slot everywhere was taken, and people just held on to them forever (price didn't go up either). People hunted for months to find the one guy that forgot his rent or stopped playing :o That + performance reasons is why the queue system was introduced in the first place ;) However the prices have remained static since then. (prior to introducing the queue they introduced like with offices where the price kept going up while all slots were full, then they doubled the slots available since it still wasn't freeing up slots (even at much much higher prices than today's slots).
Braaage Ministry of Craft	Posted - 2008.12.12 11:58:00 - [25] I still say BPOs should have ME and PE top limits. It's one of my pet hates that people research for no reason other than "it has high ME research" when infact they could get the same outcome with 1/10th of the ME. -- POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, Character Generator & more
Sassaniak	Posted - 2008.12.12 12:28:00 - [26] Edited by: Sassaniak on 12/12/2008 12:31:27 I completely agree Braaage but there really aren't any good ME Lists or even places to find what optimal ME is, sure there are hundreds of ME explanations and calculators, just most of us are too lazy, and a 100 ME copy looks better then a 26 ME copy even if there is no real difference. Bigger numbers means better right? really the solving of this issue is for someone who isn't nearly as lazy as me to post the optimal ME levels in a place where noobs can find it (oh you need a good explanation and more then one simple example to be believable(even if your right)) er that calc is pretty it needs to be linked more
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.12.12 12:39:00 - [27] Originally by: Braaage I still say BPOs should have ME and PE top limits. It's one of my pet hates that people research for no reason other than "it has high ME research" when infact they could get the same outcome with 1/10th of the ME. God no. The cost should just go up until people are sinking large amounts of isk out of the economy. I see that as win-win. Limits are bad in such a free game as Eve, do what you should do always and just make people pay to do such things. If they want to, who cares, they're paying for it.
Welktickler	Posted - 2008.12.12 12:54:00 - [28] Originally by: Sassaniak Edited by: Sassaniak on 12/12/2008 12:31:27 I completely agree Braaage but there really aren't any good ME Lists or even places to find what optimal ME is, sure there are hundreds of ME explanations and calculators, just most of us are too lazy, and a 100 ME copy looks better then a 26 ME copy even if there is no real difference. Bigger numbers means better right? really the solving of this issue is for someone who isn't nearly as lazy as me to post the optimal ME levels in a place where noobs can find it (oh you need a good explanation and more then one simple example to be believable(even if your right)) er that calc is pretty it needs to be linked more At what point does this dumb down the game?
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:22:00 - [29] Well, if you want the lazy man's perfect ME formula:Tritanium / 5. Or just remember 3 numbers ME 1 - Perfect Enough for capital ships ME 9 - Perfect Enough for ships. ME 39 - Perfect Enough for everything else. _______________ Pwett Founder <Q> QUANT Hegemony

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