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Stealing

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Kip Troger	Posted - 2008.12.09 21:40:00 - [1] This question only concerns high Sec space. Lets say someone steals from me and they become blinking red to me. If I begin to shoot at them, do they then have the rights to shoot back, or do they just have to run? Also, if I kill a ship for stealing from me do I take a security hit? What about if I kill their pod?
highonpop Gallente Tri-Mining Corp Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.12.09 21:54:00 - [2] they have every right to shoot at you. even if they were stealing. this is the mechanic that can flipping is based on someone in a combat ship warps into belt while you are mining. moves the ore from your can to their own can. they become flashy red, and the noob miner pilot tries to engage them with some combat drones, and gets a insta scram/insta web, then dies a slow death. _____________________ warp drive acti...wait, where are we going?
Kip Troger	Posted - 2008.12.09 21:59:00 - [3] So...no matter what, once I engage another pilot, they can engage me without concord stepping in. is that what you are saying?
highonpop Gallente Tri-Mining Corp Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.12.09 22:00:00 - [4] Edited by: highonpop on 09/12/2008 22:01:55 Edited by: highonpop on 09/12/2008 22:01:38 Originally by: Kip Troger So...no matter what, once I engage another pilot, they can engage me without concord stepping in. is that what you are saying? the aggressor takes the security hit. the defender does not. concord will still show up to pop the aggressor. that is, if they get their before the defender can pop the aggressor's ship. _____________________ warp drive acti...wait, where are we going?
Kip Troger	Posted - 2008.12.09 22:03:00 - [5] Ok...so if someone steals from me, then I fire upon them. If they fire back, Concord will show up to protect me? Is that it? Sorry, I just really want to make sure of this before I fire upon anyone who steals from me.
Tobius Rehn	Posted - 2008.12.09 22:25:00 - [6] Edited by: Tobius Rehn on 09/12/2008 22:27:46 No. If some one steals from you, and in response you fire on them, they can defend themselves. CONCORD will not interfere. CONCORD will only show up if you attack a non-flashy. Stealing from you makes him flashy to you, so you can attack without CONCORD popping you. Firing on him makes you flashy to him, so he can fight back without CONCORD popping him. You won't take a sec hit for killing some one who's flashy to you. You will take a sec hit for podding him, if the pod is not flashy. Generally speaking, can flippers are always a trap. If some one steals from you, they are wanting you to engage them. It's best to not mine into a jet can in the first place, but if you do, and some one flips your can, you should probably just consider it a loss and move on your way . . . unless you've got backup and are prepared for a fight.
Dyaven The Tuskers	Posted - 2008.12.09 23:27:00 - [7] Originally by: highonpop ...while in a frigate So? Any smart can flipper will use a t1 frigate with a BC or BS docked up for when the miner bring in his BC or BS. ===== * Your signature file is broken. Please use an image that will display - Fallout
Darkeen Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.09 23:53:00 - [8] Originally by: Kip Troger So...no matter what, once I engage another pilot, they can engage me without concord stepping in. is that what you are saying? Yes that is what we are saying. If someone flashes red to you and you shoot them then they, AND THEIR ENTIRE CORPORATION, can hunt you down and kill you! POD KILLING IS NEVER ALLOWED, but that wont stop them .... so be prepared for it... Regards, Jason Brisbane
Kip Troger	Posted - 2008.12.10 00:10:00 - [9] Ok...Thanks a lot guys. That really clears it up for me
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Frigateers Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.12.10 06:58:00 - [10] Kip, almost everybody in this thread is wrong. This is one of the problems with rookies helping rookies. Here is how it works: 1. I steal your ore. I now have a 15-minute "aggression countdown" during which I am red flashy to you and your corporation. You guys are free to shoot at me during this time. 2. [Optional] I jettison the ore I stole, and move your remaining ore into my jetcan. The can has been "flipped". It is there, tantalizing you. You do one of the following: 3. You retrieve your -- I mean my -- ore. Now you have stolen from me. You have a 15-minute timer during which I and anyone in my corporation can shoot at you. I promptly do so. 4. You or your corpmate shoot at me. Whoever shoots at me now has a 15-minute aggression timer during which I can shoot at them. My corporation does not have the right to shoot that person. Nor do I have the right to shoot anyone else besides the one character who shot me. (Exception: If somebody gives remote repair to the shooter, I can shoot at that player, too.) Somebody wins the fight: You kill me, or I kill you. We both still have 15 minutes in which we can fight. If I went down easy, be wary, because in fact I might have been baiting you with full intent to lose the fight. While you are patting yourself on the back, I am switching to my battleship and on my way back to the belt. PS: I don't think you can pod me. But I'm not sure and I don't want to give false info like everyone else in this thread. Look and see if I'm red flashy, and if not, don't shoot. ............. Now recruiting like-minded pilots.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.12.10 08:58:00 - [11] Edited by: Tzar''rim on 10/12/2008 08:59:50 Adding to Akita's explanation; whenever there's a 'fight' happening the personal agression timers get reset back to 15 minutes. So if you attack me after I flipped your ore and a bunch of your corp mates are in the belt you should be wary of impending doom"!. If for instance you attacked me a few minutes after I did the flip then my timer towards your corp is down by those few minutes, if ONE of you attacks me HIS timer is back to 15 minutes. So all I gotta do is entertain/annoy you long enough for the corp timer to run out (making sure I'm far enough out of range to not be targeted/attacked) and then rush in to attack that singled out target. 90% of the time the corp mates start to engage anyway and get Concorded while I'm finishing the singled out target. People have lost some stupidly expensive stuff to me (or actually to themselves) that way -edit- On the podding; you're not allowed to kill a pod in high sec, so even with agression timers concord will have a field day if you do. Note that I say 'kill', you can attack, scram or whatever as long as you don't destroy the pod.
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Frigateers Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.12.10 09:07:00 - [12] Originally by: Tzar'rim On the podding; you're not allowed to kill a pod in high sec, so even with agression timers concord will have a field day if you do. Note that I say 'kill', you can attack, scram or whatever as long as you don't destroy the pod. I didn't know that. Very interesting! ............. Now recruiting like-minded pilots.
Aion Amarra Minmatar New Eden Research Organisation StarFleet Federation	Posted - 2008.12.10 12:13:00 - [13] I don't know about the pod mechanics from own experience, but otherwise listen to what Joe wrote. If anything said in here directly contradicts what Joe said, the other guy is wrong.
highonpop Gallente Tri-Mining Corp Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.12.10 22:04:00 - [14] Edited by: highonpop on 10/12/2008 22:05:46 Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Kip, almost everybody in this thread is wrong. actually...no were not. i was wrong about concord. thats about it. just because we didnt go into time limit details and such doesnt make us wrong. he asked if he engaged a can flipper if they could shoot back. yes they can. and thats the whole point of flipping. please point out where everyone is wrong if you are so genius. i dont mean to sound like a ***, but we're not wrong telling him that. _____________________ warp drive acti...wait, where are we going?*
Billy Sastard Amarr Life. Universe. Everything.	Posted - 2008.12.10 22:32:00 - [15] Originally by: Dyaven Originally by: highonpop ...while in a frigate So? Any smart can flipper will use a t1 frigate with a BC or BS docked up for when the miner bring in his BC or BS. with the proper skills and smart target selection you dont even need to swap to a bigger ship. One of the members of my corp spends 95% of his playtime flipping cans in a merlin and has 1 BS and 7 or 8 BC kills (and countless barge/exhumer/cruiser/frig etc...) all in his merlin. Tough little ship the merlin, I must say ;)
Kessiaan Minmatar Army of One	Posted - 2008.12.11 06:48:00 - [16] How to defend your ore can and not be a noob about it... 1) Don't belt mine in busy systems unless you have a dedicated hauler parked 500m away from you. Mission mine instead. 2) Keep a pvp fit T1 frig in the system. When you get flipped, return to the station, get your frig, and shoot the flipper who will almost always still be there. 3a) If you lose (which you shouldn't as most canflipper setups are designed to appear mostly harmless), go back to the station and wait out your aggression flag + 5 minutes (to avoid the bug where your aggression cooldown isn't properly updated). 3b) If you win, loot the flipper's wreck, flip your can back, then go back to the station, jump in your hauler, refit it with a full rack of warp core stabilizers (I'm assuming your mids already have a shield tank), return to the belt, and haul your ore in. You'll probably get shot at while you're doing this but if you're smart it'll take at least 3 pirates to lock you down. 3c) If you win, and local is full of the flipper's friends, quickly loot his wreck, flip your can back, blow it up (you can blow up your own can without getting CONCORDed), and dock. 4) Wait out your flag + 5 minutes. 5) Resuming mining ... besides, I've said all I'm going to say. You're reading my sig now! Bwa! -
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Frigateers Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:02:00 - [17] Originally by: highonpop Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Kip, almost everybody in this thread is wrong. actually...no were not. i was wrong about concord. thats about it. Among other things you: 1. implied that you could have killed a pod in highsec 2. directly stated that can flippers take a security status hit Both wrong. ............. Now recruiting like-minded pilots.
Frida Frogger	Posted - 2008.12.11 13:20:00 - [18] Originally by: Tzar'rim So all I gotta do is entertain/annoy you long enough for the corp timer to run out (making sure I'm far enough out of range to not be targeted/attacked) and then rush in to attack that singled out target. 90% of the time the corp mates start to engage anyway and get Concorded while I'm finishing the singled out target. People have lost some stupidly expensive stuff to me (or actually to themselves) that way Whoa! didnt know about that one :0 This seems like one of those silly exploits where CCP coulda done something to improve the game. For example make it a auto-wardec or something, so that if you go that far, a war will start. That would also make empire war more fun to start :)
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.12.11 16:05:00 - [19] Edited by: Tzar''rim on 11/12/2008 16:06:04 Since when is knowing game mechanics and making use of them, while the others cba to think about what they're doing, an exploit?
highonpop Gallente Tri-Mining Corp Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.12.11 17:50:00 - [20] Originally by: highonpop Edited by: highonpop on 09/12/2008 22:01:55 Edited by: highonpop on 09/12/2008 22:01:38 Originally by: Kip Troger So...no matter what, once I engage another pilot, they can engage me without concord stepping in. is that what you are saying? the aggressor takes the security hit. the defender does not. concord will still show up to pop the aggressor. that is, if they get their before the defender can pop the aggressor's ship. i said aggrssor takes security hit. not flipper. flipper is not an aggressor. just a griefer. _____________________ warp drive acti...wait, where are we going?
Eschiava Q Minmatar Blood Money Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:37:00 - [21] highonpop, The reason you are wrong is because neither the aggressor nor the flipper takes a hit. BTW, how's that foot taste? Need a little salt?

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