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Javelin Tech II railgun ammo - wicked evil drawback

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JerichoSteele The Free Haven Group Free Haven	Posted - 2008.12.10 03:46:00 - [1] I recently discovered that the Javelin-series tech II railgun ammunition comes with a very steep -14% speed penalty PER WEAPON. My formally very quick battlecruiser was reduced to the speed of a slow mining barge. . . I believe this makes no sense . . .how can a ships speed be effected by the ammunition it's weapons carry? If the ammunition is so large and bulky as to effect the ships mobility, why does it not reduce speed when carried as cargo? Perhaps the game mechanics would be better served by either a flat 14% reduction in speed (regardless of the number of weapons carrying this ammo), or a more common-sense solution of reducing the firing rate of the weapon by 14%, rather then the speed of the vessel.
Shotar Aronia Intaki Mining and Exploration.	Posted - 2008.12.10 04:05:00 - [2] Because of this drawback I simply do not use this ammo type. God help you if you have this stuff loaded in your guns and the FC says "get back on the gate!" You ship will CRAWL.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.12.10 07:53:00 - [3] Javelin is a long range ammunition. As a sniper you're not moving anywhere fast anyways. Might even be a advantage when you can stay aligned without moving much. If you need more speed, just load up a different ammo type. If you need a fiction explanation for the speed penalty, one could say that the speed needs to be reduced to keep the primed graviton detonators in the ammunition stable lest they blow up in your face. In cargo the graviton detonators are not primed and more stable. -------- Ideas for: Mining
swisher Mentis Fidelis Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.12.10 08:07:00 - [4] Originally by: Abrazzar Javelin is a long range ammunition. As a sniper you're not moving anywhere fast anyways. Might even be a advantage when you can stay aligned without moving much. If you need more speed, just load up a different ammo type. If you need a fiction explanation for the speed penalty, one could say that the speed needs to be reduced to keep the primed graviton detonators in the ammunition stable lest they blow up in your face. In cargo the graviton detonators are not primed and more stable. WRONG WRONG WRONG. spike is the long range. javelin is both shorter than antimatter and gives a stupid short-range drawback unless you have a stationary target. its a general rule of thumb, by the way, that spike is to be used in railguns, javelin is used to wipe your ass.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.12.10 08:10:00 - [5] Edited by: Abrazzar on 10/12/2008 08:11:15 Originally by: swisher Originally by: Abrazzar Javelin is a long range ammunition. As a sniper you're not moving anywhere fast anyways. Might even be a advantage when you can stay aligned without moving much. If you need more speed, just load up a different ammo type. If you need a fiction explanation for the speed penalty, one could say that the speed needs to be reduced to keep the primed graviton detonators in the ammunition stable lest they blow up in your face. In cargo the graviton detonators are not primed and more stable. WRONG WRONG WRONG. spike is the long range. javelin is both shorter than antimatter and gives a stupid short-range drawback unless you have a stationary target. its a general rule of thumb, by the way, that spike is to be used in railguns, javelin is used to wipe your ass. Then the database must be wrong or at least rather unclear. Just checked again and it says 75 range bonus on Javelin and -80 range bonus on Spike. -------- Ideas for: Mining
zombeee	Posted - 2008.12.10 08:12:00 - [6] Yes it's wrong
JerichoSteele The Free Haven Group Free Haven	Posted - 2008.12.10 08:16:00 - [7] It is a -75% range to the Javelin ammunition, the database entry is incorrect.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.12.10 08:20:00 - [8] Originally by: JerichoSteele It is a -75% range to the Javelin ammunition, the database entry is incorrect. Meh, yeah. The database is using a negative number on the bonus for increased range and a positive 'bonus' for reduced range. And my explenation was fitting so nicely. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.12.10 10:16:00 - [9] Well the ammo description states that the speed loss is mainly to compensate for the recoil of the ammunition IIRC. These are graviton pulse propelled iridium shotgun shells afteral. Yes it's a very nasty drawback, but if you manage to hit something (not easy mind you, but works wonders on structures) the damage is pretty impressive.
Onys Cissalc	Posted - 2008.12.11 00:28:00 - [10] The nerfs would be for corrections and compensations that have to be made on the part of the ship in order to use the ammunition. Let's say you're firing a .50cal rifle with a standard round. It's going to have one hell of a kick to it. If you increase the mass of the projectile it's firing, the kick stands to increase as more of the explosive force is transferred into the rifle itself while trying to force the projectile out of the rifle. If you make the projectile lighter, less kick. Same thing will happen if you increase or decrease the explosive capacity of the cartridge used for firing. A more explosive substance will naturally provide a greater kick while a less explosive one or just less gunpowder in general will provide less. The penalties are, overall, justified.
LoneRider Minmatar Com-Star	Posted - 2008.12.11 00:37:00 - [11] Edited by: LoneRider on 11/12/2008 00:37:03 I use Quake ammo in my large artillery cannons, which is a nice surprice in close combat - only against other BS (and webbed if possible). Javelin and Quake also have both the tracking speed penalty, so it IS for targeting almost-stationary targets. There is no use for a short-range high-damage artillery/railgun ammo which screws your tracking if you are too fast. BUT against stationary targets you will do... well i normally do 5000 damage volleys (grouped weapons, 6 1400s on tempest) which is a good psychological effect - one hit and shields are down (on an armor tanker). Makes the target feel like having less chance. But use it in fleet fights only :) The tactical advantage: take long range ammo with you and switch when e.g. a falcon decloakes. I change sensor booster and tracking computer scripts and ammo to get 150+ km range. Flexible setup, but difficult to use. Oh and: right click -> unload to cargo. full speed ^^
vanBuskirk Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.13 13:17:00 - [12] I think that it would make a lot more sense for the long-range ammo speed penalty to apply only once per ship, no matter how many turrets have it loaded. How difficult it would be to implement this in terms of the actual program; now that's another matter. ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."

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