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Saladinae
Angels Of Death EVE Mayhem.
0
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Posted - 2012.04.11 06:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
With Level 4 skills
Is there any other reason to choose another HIC for supercap tackle? |
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
59
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Posted - 2012.04.11 06:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
If you can't fly the devoter, the others are excellent aswell. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3296
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Posted - 2012.04.11 08:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
That's pretty much the Devoter's niche, but I guess if you're bringing a shield fleet (with shield gang bonuses), you'll want a shield HIC anyway, probably the Onyx. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
395
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Posted - 2012.04.11 09:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:That's pretty much the Devoter's niche, but I guess if you're bringing a shield fleet (with shield gang bonuses), you'll want a shield HIC anyway, probably the Onyx.
Broadsword is better as a shield HIC because it's T2 resists coincide completely with the two most common titans out there and both their sig radius' are large enough for tracking titans to be a concern.
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Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
395
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Posted - 2012.04.11 10:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Saladinae wrote:Is there any other reason to choose another HIC for supercap tackle?
Phobos if you're rolling armor and think that it's going to be a support fleet consisting of Drakes/Tengus or Rokhs shooting you. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
415
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Posted - 2012.04.11 10:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Saladinae wrote:Is there any other reason to choose another HIC for supercap tackle? Phobos if you're rolling armor and think that it's going to be a support fleet consisting of Drakes/Tengus or Rokhs shooting you. phobos has enough medslots for actually fitting sensor boosters if you don't like relying on RSB's.
but that's the only good point vs devoter actually. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
captain skinback
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2012.04.11 13:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
locking speed is very important if your using the script. i dont remember what HIC has the fastest lock time though. |
Astroniomix
EliteTroll
39
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Posted - 2012.04.11 15:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
captain skinback wrote:locking speed is very important if your using the script. i dont remember what HIC has the fastest lock time though. Phobos can be setup to instalock stuff fairly easily |
Lady Ayeipsia
Morskoj Industries
72
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Posted - 2012.04.11 15:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
I believe the onyx can double bubble and fit a cyno, while still leaving room to tank and add a little missile dps. I forget if the devoter can match. I know the broadsword has a little trouble with such a fit. |
Astroniomix
EliteTroll
39
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Posted - 2012.04.11 15:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:I believe the onyx can double bubble and fit a cyno, while still leaving room to tank and add a little missile dps. I forget if the devoter can match. I know the broadsword has a little trouble with such a fit. The broadsword has powergrid issues so at best you might be able to get a pair of t1 bubbles on it. |
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Saladinae
Angels Of Death EVE Mayhem.
0
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Posted - 2012.04.11 15:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
Astroniomix wrote:captain skinback wrote:locking speed is very important if your using the script. i dont remember what HIC has the fastest lock time though. Phobos can be setup to instalock stuff fairly easily
We're talking about supercap tackle only, I don't think your lock speed is of great importance.
Also all Devoter resists can be brought to 90% with active hardeners and one eanm, overheat if you sense the titan is going to shoot you. |
Drew Solaert
University of Caille Gallente Federation
112
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Posted - 2012.04.11 16:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:I believe the onyx can double bubble and fit a cyno, while still leaving room to tank and add a little missile dps. I forget if the devoter can match. I know the broadsword has a little trouble with such a fit.
Phobos can do the double bubble cyno nicely with some ac's thrown on for km whoring/anti drone For every player ship that blows up, the wheels of the economy turn slightly faster. -áDo your bit today. -áGo out and PEW.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1511
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Posted - 2012.04.11 17:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Malcanis wrote:That's pretty much the Devoter's niche, but I guess if you're bringing a shield fleet (with shield gang bonuses), you'll want a shield HIC anyway, probably the Onyx. Broadsword is better as a shield HIC because it's T2 resists coincide completely with the two most common titans out there and both their sig radius' are large enough for tracking titans to be a concern.
Wait what? I was under the impression that the Avatar and Erebus were the most common Titans? The Erebus should be hitting the Broadsword's resist hole(s) with both guns and DD... what gives?
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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mxzf
Shovel Bros
1185
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Posted - 2012.04.11 17:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Thread summary: All HICs can be useful, depending on what you're trying to do with them. |
Adacia Calla
The Long Kiss Goodnight Rise Against All
20
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Posted - 2012.04.11 18:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Mfume Apocal wrote:Malcanis wrote:That's pretty much the Devoter's niche, but I guess if you're bringing a shield fleet (with shield gang bonuses), you'll want a shield HIC anyway, probably the Onyx. Broadsword is better as a shield HIC because it's T2 resists coincide completely with the two most common titans out there and both their sig radius' are large enough for tracking titans to be a concern. Wait what? I was under the impression that the Avatar and Erebus were the most common Titans? The Erebus should be hitting the Broadsword's resist hole(s) with both guns and DD... what gives? -Liang ....Broadsword has a base resist of 81% EM, 70% Therm..... Test signature....forum not applying settings :( |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1512
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Posted - 2012.04.11 18:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
Adacia Calla wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Mfume Apocal wrote:Malcanis wrote:That's pretty much the Devoter's niche, but I guess if you're bringing a shield fleet (with shield gang bonuses), you'll want a shield HIC anyway, probably the Onyx. Broadsword is better as a shield HIC because it's T2 resists coincide completely with the two most common titans out there and both their sig radius' are large enough for tracking titans to be a concern. Wait what? I was under the impression that the Avatar and Erebus were the most common Titans? The Erebus should be hitting the Broadsword's resist hole(s) with both guns and DD... what gives? -Liang ....Broadsword has a base resist of 81% EM, 70% Therm.....
Huh, the Broadsword has a different resist profile than the typical T2 Minnie profile. I hadn't noticed that.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
395
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Posted - 2012.04.11 18:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Wait what? I was under the impression that the Avatar and Erebus were the most common Titans? The Erebus should be hitting the Broadsword's resist hole(s) with both guns and DD... what gives?
Kinetic is naturally strong on shields. Thermal is boosted on a Broadsword. I've never had a probably with shrugging off the occassional Erebus shot in my broadsword
And DDs haven't been a tanking concern for two years. You died no matter what before the change and now you can't be hit by a DD regardless. |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1513
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Posted - 2012.04.11 18:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Wait what? I was under the impression that the Avatar and Erebus were the most common Titans? The Erebus should be hitting the Broadsword's resist hole(s) with both guns and DD... what gives? Kinetic is naturally strong on shields. Thermal is boosted on a Broadsword. I've never had a probably with shrugging off the occassional Erebus shot in my broadsword And DDs haven't been a tanking concern for two years. You died no matter what before the change and now you can't be hit by a DD regardless.
Yeah I noticed the thermal boost on the Broadsword. Seems weird, but whatever. Learn something new every day - thanks. :)
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
395
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Posted - 2012.04.11 18:58:00 -
[19] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Yeah I noticed the thermal boost on the Broadsword. Seems weird, but whatever. Learn something new every day - thanks. :)
-Liang
HACs, recons and AFs to my knowledge as well. |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1514
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Posted - 2012.04.11 19:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Yeah I noticed the thermal boost on the Broadsword. Seems weird, but whatever. Learn something new every day - thanks. :)
-Liang HACs, recons and AFs to my knowledge as well.
Looks like *MOST OF THE TIME*, it goes EM > Explosive >= Thermal > Kinetic. The Broadsword is different: Wolf, Jaguar, Broadsword: EM 75 % Explosive 50 % Kinetic 40 % Thermal 60 %
Muninn, Vagabond, Scimitar, Claymore EM Resist 75 % Explosive Resist 60 % Kinetic Resist 40 % Thermal Resist 60 %
Sleipnir: EM Resist 62.5 % Explosive Resist 60 % Kinetic Resist 40 % Thermal Resist 50 %
Rapier: EM Resist 50 % Explosive Resist 50 % Kinetic Resist 40 % Thermal Resist 40 %
Huginn: EM Resist 62.5 % Explosive Resist 50 % Kinetic Resist 40 % Thermal Resist 50 %
Anyway, I'd always looked at the Scim/Vaga/Sleip/etc as the base Minnie T2 resist pattern.
-Liang
Ed: I am at work. Pulled resists from eve.wikia. Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Aamrr
268
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Posted - 2012.04.11 19:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
Unfortunately, Liang, those numbers are badly off. Neglecting specific hull resistance bonuses (from the spaceship command skills), the base kinetic and explosive resists for any Minmatar ship will be 40% and 50%, respectively. Only EM and Thermal are changed in their transition from T1 to T2 hulls.
That said, some ships receive a larger bonus than others, and with EM and Therm starting from 0% and 20%, it's not uncommon at all for T2 Minmatar ships to retain an EM or Thermal hole -- taking even more damage from these sources than kinetic.
In general, the more resilient a particular ship class is, the greater the impact of the primary and secondary resist bonuses. Shooting lasers at a Stiletto (10% resist) is a smart move. Shooting it at a Wolf (75% resist) is an exercise in futility. Particularly resilient ship classes such as Heavy Interdictors and Fleet Command Ships usually possess a universal resistance bonus on top of this. |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1514
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Posted - 2012.04.11 19:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:Unfortunately, Liang, those numbers are badly off. Neglecting specific hull resistance bonuses (from the spaceship command skills), the base kinetic and explosive resists for any Minmatar ship will be 40% and 50%, respectively. Only EM and Thermal are changed in their transition from T1 to T2 hulls.
That said, some ships receive a larger bonus than others, and with EM and Therm starting from 0% and 20%, it's not uncommon at all for T2 Minmatar ships to retain an EM or Thermal hole -- taking even more damage from these sources than kinetic.
In general, the more resilient a particular ship class is, the greater the impact of the primary and secondary resist bonuses. Shooting lasers at a Stiletto (10% resist) is a smart move. Shooting it at a Wolf (75% resist) is an exercise in futility. Particularly resilient ship classes such as Heavy Interdictors and Fleet Command Ships usually possess a universal resistance bonus on top of this.
That's a lot of :words: to tell me a lot of stuff that I already know quite well. The only meat of your post (to me) is that eve.wikia.com has bad values for resists. Both wiki.eveonline.com and chruker tell me that EM/Thm is usually higher - despite my rather strong recollection that Kin/Thm T2 resists were relatively weak on Minnie T2.
I'm more than happy to be wrong about it though. :)
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Aamrr
268
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Posted - 2012.04.12 16:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
And yet you're the one that couldn't recognize the obvious error when a T2 Minmatar ship supposedly possesses a buffed explosive resist. While you might have known what I said already, your post certainly gave no indication of it -- and since this is a public forum, I usually go to some effort to add a level of detail for those that might not know these things yet. It's what makes the difference between being a pretentious jerk or part of an accessible community.
While you correctly state that kinetic is a safe bet for attacking Minmatar ships, EM is the weakest shield resist on no fewer than 7 T2 Minmatar hulls, including the Panther, Cheetah, Claw, Stiletto, Sabre, Vargur, and Hound. Considering there are only 21 T2 hulls, it's worth pointing out that your very vague heuristic misses the weak resist 33% of the time.
As a final point, thermal is never the single weakest resist. EM or kinetic are always at least as good. When you're choosing between EMP and Phased Plasma rounds or Mjolnir and Inferno missiles? That's definitely worth remembering. |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1519
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Posted - 2012.04.12 16:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:And yet you're the one that couldn't recognize the obvious error when a T2 Minmatar ship supposedly possesses a buffed explosive resist. While you might have known what I said already, your post certainly gave no indication of it -- and since this is a public forum, I usually go to some effort to add a level of detail for those that might not know these things yet. It's what makes the difference between being a pretentious jerk or part of an accessible community.
While you correctly state that kinetic is a safe bet for attacking Minmatar ships, EM is the weakest shield resist on no fewer than 7 T2 Minmatar hulls, including the Panther, Cheetah, Claw, Stiletto, Sabre, Vargur, and Hound. Considering there are only 21 T2 hulls, it's worth pointing out that your very vague heuristic misses the weak resist 33% of the time.
Quote: As a final point, thermal is never the single weakest resist. EM or kinetic are always at least as good. When you're choosing between EMP and Phased Plasma rounds or Mjolnir and Inferno missiles? That's definitely worth remembering.
I never said it was? Come on now.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Aamrr
268
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Posted - 2012.04.12 16:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
Whatever can I say to a stunning argument like that? Well done, sir. Well done. |
Nydia Carver
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.04.12 16:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
EM hole Caldari Thermal hole Amarr Kinetic hole Minmatar Explosive hole Gallente
It-¦s not that hard... |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1519
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Posted - 2012.04.12 16:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:Whatever can I say to a stunning argument like that? Well done, sir. Well done.
It was more commentary on your priggishness than your argument.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1519
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Posted - 2012.04.12 16:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
Nydia Carver wrote:EM hole Caldari Thermal hole Amarr Kinetic hole Minmatar Explosive hole Gallente
It-¦s not that hard...
That's the primary hole which nobody was confused about. ;-)
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Aamrr
268
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Posted - 2012.04.12 16:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
Well, except on those seven hulls I already mentioned, where they behave more akin to T1 hulls than T2. |
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