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Ravenal The Fated	Posted - 2008.12.12 16:02:00 - [1] New stuff ... by adding new resources and reactions ... Most likely supposed to fit into the current invention process. This means two interesting things are about to happen. T2 bpo owners (there aren't THAT many of each bpo type) will have a fairly good advantage in T3 bpc research because of their "cheap" access to T2 bpcs, that is not having to rely on getting them through the invention process. "OK" This however means that the T2 bpos are in copying for T3 invention which frees up the T2 market from the clutches of the T2 bpos, or at least greatly reduces their impact on market prices because the advantage is spread between T2 and T3. Additionally because ME and PE of the original bpc are not taken into account with the output of the invention process, high ME/PE T2 bpos will not yield a more productive T3 bpcs over the T2 bpcs gained from invention. Their only benefit is how much cheaper it is to make the bpcs. End result is more or less a "fix" for the T2 bpo problem. This however begs a question. Resources? As far as I can tell resource gathering for T3 is an active one (compared to the T2 passive one by POS). Resources are available via these wormholes that appear and disappear, most likely similar to current exploration mechanics (just another dungeon type). Here the spawn mechanics are somewhat important. Will they be ... the more you look the more you find or a fixed amount per day (downtime reseed)? Downtime reseed means scrambling to find sites after DT and is a bit Timezone unfriendly. Factional warfare dungeons behave differently, they seem to appear at any time of the day in a system leading to the conclusion that there is either an hourly trigger mechanism of distributing the dungeons or something, or once a dungeon is completed it is spawned elsewhere. The current T2 passive system is kinda broken because the resource stream is of a fixed size, you can't decide to mine more , if for example the playerbase doubles in size, to meet demand... leading me to the conclusion that T2 resource gathering should be an active process, not passive like it is now. Launch a small tower and some moon miners and start mining ... this provides a "point" of attack and defense = fun stuff. I have a concern though. Now shortly after the announcement of T3 there "seems" to be an influx of T2 blueprint sales on the sell order forums. WHY in eve should anyone want to sell their T2 blueprints ... now, of all times? ...unless they know something I don't!?! ... .
Detalet Gallente United Mining and Engineering Group	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:12:00 - [2] Well, from what I've read thus far about T3 is that is has practicly nothing to do with T2.. it's bpos/bpcs... anything.... I would assume that the ship parts being modular and swappable would be made out of at least some of the old t2 components made from moon mining but that's pretty much guessing. All we really know for certian is that this new scanning out of worm holes to new systems is suppost to give us the ability to create t3 ship modules which are then put together to form a complete ship. So for all we know these new systems might have old relics or bpc's that we use to make these parts and maybe even new resources to make them out of. At this point, who knows.. but we will find out soon enough come march. "I'd rather go after asteroids.. They don't scream when you blow them up, they don't call in rienforcements, and the more out numbered you are the more isk you make.- Cronicles of a Carebear
Caeli Maren Gallente Dark Canyon Corporation Coalition of the ExtraOrdinary	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:15:00 - [3] Interesting post. I think your first assumption, that T3 will take invented from T2 BPCs may not be accurate. The T3 ships that they showed us during fanfest aren't simply upgraded versions of existing ship models, as T2 is. What T2 BPC would you use to invent the front piece of a ship? Nothing easily matches. Even if T3 was invented from T2, you cannot ignore the T2 BPC supply created by invention. I expect that T2 BPCs can be created in bulk far far more quickly from invention than T2 BPOs. I personally expect T3 BPCs to be discovered from archeology sites, perhaps only in the new systems, but maybe everywhere.
Soleramnus Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.12 23:53:00 - [4] I think you're assuming a lot of things that aren't confirmed, and thus you're making conclusions that can't be founded in any real way. Will invention be involved in T3? According to a certain dev comment I remember, it's possible, even likely. However I personally don't think it's going to be invention as we know it now. I don't really buy the formula that you will have to invent a T2 BPC to make a T3 BPC. It's a whole other game with T3. There won't be such a thing as a "Tech-3 Vexor." If anything I wouldn't be surprised if T3 BPOs were seeded on the market and built much like Tech 1 items are. The novelty is in the swapping of components, not the building method. But then again, that's my assumption.
Gridwalker Amarr Divine Power.	Posted - 2008.12.13 01:02:00 - [5] Originally by: Ravenal Most likely supposed to fit into the current invention process. This means two interesting things are about to happen. T2 bpo owners (there aren't THAT many of each bpo type) will have a fairly good advantage in T3 bpc research because of their "cheap" access to T2 bpcs, that is not having to rely on getting them through the invention process. "OK" I own a few T2 BPO's, and I think you're mistaken that I--or any other T2 BPO holder--will make copies for T3 or anything else. It takes days to make a single copy of just about anything. Much, much longer than it takes to build. A friend asked for a max run copy of one of my BPO's, but balked when I told him it was going to take over three months. Copying also requires materials, which are consumed in the process, so making the copies isn't even free. Finally, a T2 BPO also costs billions and billions of isk, which is hardly "cheap" access to anything. I hate to break it to you, but if T3 requires T2 BPC's, it is going to be a boatload easier for an inventor to crank out DOZENS of T2 BPC's than it is for a T2 BPO holder to crank out even one. Regardless, I seriously doubt T3 is going to have anything to do with T2. I suspect it is going to be exploration based. -Grid
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.12.13 05:16:00 - [6] T3 will not be invented from T2. It is not an added layer of complexity, it is simply different. It quite possibly won't even be invented from T1, but come entirely from things dropped in the new wormhole regions, meaning that it will be impossible to create a good supply, and thus will be rare like faction items. T2 is now very common and fairly cheap, the best T2 BPOs make less than you can from capital BPOs or invention of certain items. T3 will not be that common, expect it to be more like faction gear, but with more player steps in the creation of it.
Ravenal The Fated	Posted - 2008.12.13 06:06:00 - [7] First of all, thank you for your replies. Very constructive. Second, my post was less assumptions are more questions really ... although I do admit they sound more like assumptions. Most likely because I do believe in the invention system and I don't see a reason why they should not use it. Originally by: Caeli Maren I think your first assumption, that T3 will take invented from T2 BPCs may not be accurate. The T3 ships that they showed us during fanfest aren't simply upgraded versions of existing ship models, as T2 is. What T2 BPC would you use to invent the front piece of a ship? Nothing easily matches. The "base" of a T3 ship might be derived from an existing hull... Quote: Will invention be involved in T3? According to a certain dev comment I remember, it's possible, even likely. However I personally don't think it's going to be invention as we know it now. most likely not, thats true. But the basics of installing an invention job and that stuff "should" be unchanged ... adding yet another mechanic to the industrial process is just silly. Quote: I hate to break it to you, but if T3 requires T2 BPC's, it is going to be a boatload easier for an inventor to crank out DOZENS of T2 BPC's than it is for a T2 BPO holder to crank out even one. heh, thats more or less what I say in my OP. Either T2 bpo owners will make copies for T3 and gain an edge there OR continue their hold on T2 items. Either way there'll be greater opportunity for inventors to saddle the market where T2 bpo owners are not. Quote: T3 will not be that common, expect it to be more like faction gear, but with more player steps in the creation of it. The game mechanics will still be the same. You will still want to warp disrupt that ship that is getting away and you will want to do that effectively. If T3 can do anything to increase your chance of success there will be T3 warp disruptors right? ... or possibly T3 is only the modular ships? According to eve history Jove items that are classified tech 5 (that lovelly miner that triggered T2) .
Vania ColeDart Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.12.13 17:03:00 - [8] has anyone actualy seen the fanfest 2008 videos..T3 is mentioned and somewhat explained..dont have a link but you can find it easily on youtube. my concern is with the recent moon exploit fiasco that implementation of t3 will either be delayed or halted altogether
FireT	Posted - 2008.12.13 18:26:00 - [9] I am curious, id they mention if the Tech 3 will cover all types of ships? Or will it cover only battleship sized and bigger?
4 LOM United Gamers	Posted - 2008.12.13 21:05:00 - [10] Originally by: FireT I am curious, id they mention if the Tech 3 will cover all types of ships? Or will it cover only battleship sized and bigger? My guess is they will do like they did with tech 2, start with small ships and slowly work up. But i have not seen the fanfest stuff so maybe you know something i dont. Originally by: Twilight Moon of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.

Gremwatch	Posted - 2008.12.13 21:15:00 - [11] At fanfest they showed caldari cruiser sized t3 ships so it is safe to assume that it will come in at least cruiser and frigate sizes at first.
Ravenal The Fated	Posted - 2008.12.14 05:01:00 - [12] Ten Ton Hammer coverage of that lecture: Video and notes .
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.12.15 00:02:00 - [13] Originally by: Vania ColeDart has anyone actualy seen the fanfest 2008 videos..T3 is mentioned and somewhat explained..dont have a link but you can find it easily on youtube. my concern is with the recent moon exploit fiasco that implementation of t3 will either be delayed or halted altogether I don't see any long term manpower need to deal with the moon exploit. It's possible that the wormhole systems will become an alternate supply source for moon minerals. Even if the rarest cannot be found there, you could still mine the alchemy stuff.
Ghoest	Posted - 2008.12.15 03:01:00 - [14] Isnt there a a saying about what happens when you assume? If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
Jenkins Leroy	Posted - 2008.12.15 03:04:00 - [15] The new unexplored areas would be safe like empre (so something like concord is needed) or unsafe like 0.0 so empire players cannot use them?
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.12.17 06:50:00 - [16] Originally by: Ghoest Isnt there a a saying about what happens when you assume? You have to keep in mind opportunity cost. I don't lose anything by assuming.
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.12.17 10:23:00 - [17] Originally by: Jenkins Leroy The new unexplored areas would be safe like empre (so something like concord is needed) or unsafe like 0.0 so empire players cannot use them? It would be really unlikely that any new space would be 'safe' space, that's pretty much against the spirit of the game. They were thinking that as a small possibility there would be some 'safe' space added at some point that you would have to travel through unsafe space to get to though. You're going to have to take at least some risk to gain rewards.
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.12.17 14:44:00 - [18] Here is just my theory of how it will be done. T3 ships will be exploration only (BPCs/components/material). T3 modules would come from T2 BPCs + new exploration only interfaces/datacores/material.
Constance Harme	Posted - 2008.12.17 14:56:00 - [19] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Here is just my theory of how it will be done. T3 ships will be exploration only (BPCs/components/material). T3 modules would come from T2 BPCs + new exploration only interfaces/datacores/material. I think your right regarding ships, but since T2 ships and modules are improvements of T1 and T3 ships are entirely new hulls then wouldn't T3 modules follow the same logic?
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.12.17 16:35:00 - [20] Originally by: Constance Harme I think your right regarding ships, but since T2 ships and modules are improvements of T1 and T3 ships are entirely new hulls then wouldn't T3 modules follow the same logic? No I don't think modules will follow that logic as I can't see modular modules anytime soon. Also at one stage T2 BPCs had "research tech level" listed as an attribute which is the same as invention time. I can't find the dev posts right now but it has been mentioned in the past that T2 BPCs would be used for T3 invention, however as the ships will be modular that limits it to T3 modules.

Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.12.17 23:23:00 - [21] I don't think Tech 2 BPCs will be used at all. For modules Tech 1 BPO + new exploration invention materials. Just a different set of inputs. It wouldn't make any sense to use Tech 2 BPCs. Given Tech 3 is not supposed to be another layer ontop of T2. The only reason people think it will be is because it has the '3' in it. And the '3' was decided a long time before anyone had any idea that it would ever actually make it in-game.
Borun Tal Minmatar Virtual Rock Industries	Posted - 2008.12.18 00:10:00 - [22] So this means it'll all get even more lopsided in favor of those that buy ISK? Nice... (not) ------------------------------------------- 1) Dell XPS M1710 (3Gig, nVidia GeForce Go 7900 GS, Vista Business SP1, display res 1920x1200, DX 10) 2) AMD/64 (3200+) on Asus AN8SLI32 w/3Gig, nVidia Ge
Yelan Zhou Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.18 01:25:00 - [23] Originally by: Borun Tal Yadda yadda Heh? War. War never changes.
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.12.18 11:24:00 - [24] Originally by: Borun Tal So this means it'll all get even more lopsided in favor of those that buy ISK? Nice... (not) People who buy isk still die just as easy, usually easier, and the victory is even sweeter. Expensive loot etc ;)
Arri Gato	Posted - 2008.12.18 18:20:00 - [25] Originally by: Borun Tal So this means it'll all get even more lopsided in favor of those that buy ISK? Nice... (not) My theory about those who buy isk is that they usually quit the game, since it becomes meaningless to play... I guess not everyone, but that's how we people work. If you don't have to work for it, then it's not as sweet... I surely hope T3 becomes based on T1 BPO:s since I bought 95% of all BPO:s and researched them and copied and stuff, the last couple of months... (a weird goal of a kind). Just the the really expensive left...
Dianalexia	Posted - 2008.12.18 20:33:00 - [26] I think that CCP should name T3 "Elder Tech", just to avoid misconceptions, since it will not be Tech 2 evolution, but somethig different.


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