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Marlenus Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.12.29 01:37:00 - [121] I think Sanka is on to something. If the missions and plex defenses had an effect on the overall combat environment, I think PVPers, a lot of them, would be slower to ridicule their brethren running mission and plexes. ------------------ Ironfleet.com
Jeiden Rougal Amarr Katsu Corporation	Posted - 2008.12.29 17:31:00 - [122] /signed Ive read your post with pleasure since it either resolved issues i had in my short FW Career or pointed out things ive not encountered so far. I sincearly hope CCP takes consideration of your points so that we can enjoy it to the fullest in the near future Tecam Hund - 2006.09.22 10:55:00 About Ransom: "It might not be profitable at once, but in the long run killing everything that moves is like skinning sheep instead of just cutting the wool."
Atraxerxes Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2008.12.31 04:50:00 - [123] Haven't read this whole thread, but kudos on putting this out there. I agree with a lot of it. AX EVE Chicago meet up March 7th 2009 See forum thread
Vibora BR Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun	Posted - 2008.12.31 17:44:00 - [124] Edited by: Vibora BR on 31/12/2008 17:44:35 Right now FW is a good way of get PVP. And for sure the fastest way to get poor!!!
Sky Grunthor Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.02 15:54:00 - [125] CCP, Where are you? Keeping it on the first page :) ------------------------------------------------- Search: Sky Grunthor
Vibora BR	Posted - 2009.01.02 20:09:00 - [126] Originally by: Sky Grunthor CCP, Where are you? Keeping it on the first page :) I am not so sure if they care enough to post here.
Nikita Alterana Gallente The Antikythera Mechanism	Posted - 2009.01.03 03:58:00 - [127] Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon The System Captures 4.Consequences! For a game with so much effort put into consequences, it's not surprising people react very poorly to a lack of consequences here. Because Facwar is still in lowsec, total denial of station access isn't an option. What is an option - and it already exists in 0.0 Outposts - are things like discounting/free repair at Stations, docking fees for less-than-entirely-welcome entities, lower taxes, etc. I highlighted this section because I have a bit of a gripe with it. in factional warfare in general, why is it that the enemy militia is allowed into stations owned by the opposing faction? One of the main tactics of highsec raiders is to fly in and dock up to repair when they start taking damage. This is dumb and should not be allowed. If your in the Caldari Milita for instance, then you should not be allowed into Gallentean stations, high or lowsec. If the Gallenteans control the station, they should lock you out and open up with the station guns. __________________________________________________ I was Amarr before they were the FOTM and I'll be Amarr after it! I'm also training Minmatar Capitals! And I eat Lions!
Snake O'Donell	Posted - 2009.01.04 14:10:00 - [128] Originally by: Nikita Alterana Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon The System Captures 4.Consequences! For a game with so much effort put into consequences, it's not surprising people react very poorly to a lack of consequences here. Because Facwar is still in lowsec, total denial of station access isn't an option. What is an option - and it already exists in 0.0 Outposts - are things like discounting/free repair at Stations, docking fees for less-than-entirely-welcome entities, lower taxes, etc. I highlighted this section because I have a bit of a gripe with it. in factional warfare in general, why is it that the enemy militia is allowed into stations owned by the opposing faction? One of the main tactics of highsec raiders is to fly in and dock up to repair when they start taking damage. This is dumb and should not be allowed. If your in the Caldari Milita for instance, then you should not be allowed into Gallentean stations, high or lowsec. If the Gallenteans control the station, they should lock you out and open up with the station guns. I agree with locking out stations. Not only will this prevent the high-sec raiders from just docking up to rep, it also prevents the low-sec docking games(OMS anyone?). Docking games are really ridiculous, and it seems that there are several groups of people who do nothing but play them. At least if the enemy stations are locked out these guys would have to contain their games to their own space. Which means that if they wanted to play docking games in OMS they would have to flip the system first.
Raimo Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.01.04 16:30:00 - [129] Originally by: Snake O'Donell Originally by: Nikita Alterana Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon The System Captures 4.Consequences! For a game with so much effort put into consequences, it's not surprising people react very poorly to a lack of consequences here. Because Facwar is still in lowsec, total denial of station access isn't an option. What is an option - and it already exists in 0.0 Outposts - are things like discounting/free repair at Stations, docking fees for less-than-entirely-welcome entities, lower taxes, etc. I highlighted this section because I have a bit of a gripe with it. in factional warfare in general, why is it that the enemy militia is allowed into stations owned by the opposing faction? One of the main tactics of highsec raiders is to fly in and dock up to repair when they start taking damage. This is dumb and should not be allowed. If your in the Caldari Milita for instance, then you should not be allowed into Gallentean stations, high or lowsec. If the Gallenteans control the station, they should lock you out and open up with the station guns. I agree with locking out stations. Not only will this prevent the high-sec raiders from just docking up to rep, it also prevents the low-sec docking games(OMS anyone?). Docking games are really ridiculous, and it seems that there are several groups of people who do nothing but play them. At least if the enemy stations are locked out these guys would have to contain their games to their own space. Which means that if they wanted to play docking games in OMS they would have to flip the system first. Hold on there, I like my Jita shopping! TBH if this was introduced and docking in enemy hisec was impossible it would just bloat the use of alts even more... While making resupplying "behind enemy lines" harder for the casual 1-account player. You certain you want that? If you want to make docking games harder just increase the agression timer for docking, but that is a totally different topic. ---
Dex Nederland Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2009.01.04 17:09:00 - [130] Originally by: Raimo Hold on there, I like my Jita shopping! TBH if this was introduced and docking in enemy hisec was impossible it would just bloat the use of alts even more... While making resupplying "behind enemy lines" harder for the casual 1-account player. You certain you want that? If you want to make docking games harder just increase the agression timer for docking, but that is a totally different topic. Or you would have to base out of your high sec; traders & industrialist would have the opportunity to make a profit by either moving goods from hubs like Jita to militia bases or building goods and selling them at militia bases. Gasp! Pay a little bit for convenience. To resupply behind enemy lines, don't! It makes deep 'raids' and offensive more of a challenge (requires logistics and organization). It shouldn't be a Sunday drive for you an a buddy to take two RR Battleships, sit on a high sec hub gate and light up whatever is flagged. In-Game Browser : http://ldis.caldari-made.net
Snake O'Donell	Posted - 2009.01.04 18:57:00 - [131] Originally by: Dex Nederland Originally by: Raimo Hold on there, I like my Jita shopping! TBH if this was introduced and docking in enemy hisec was impossible it would just bloat the use of alts even more... While making resupplying "behind enemy lines" harder for the casual 1-account player. You certain you want that? If you want to make docking games harder just increase the agression timer for docking, but that is a totally different topic. Or you would have to base out of your high sec; traders & industrialist would have the opportunity to make a profit by either moving goods from hubs like Jita to militia bases or building goods and selling them at militia bases. Gasp! Pay a little bit for convenience. To resupply behind enemy lines, don't! It makes deep 'raids' and offensive more of a challenge (requires logistics and organization). It shouldn't be a Sunday drive for you an a buddy to take two RR Battleships, sit on a high sec hub gate and light up whatever is flagged. Exactly. I make jita runs every once and a while(mainly to to the fact that implants are 10-20mil cheaper there than in ourselrout and dodixie), but I think that prices would stabilize across the area if fac war players were not allowed to dock in enemy high-sec. The whole no docking thing is just a way to make flipping systems actually MATTER(gasp!). For instance, the Caldari took Costolle the other day, what has it changed in the fac-war dynamic? Absolutely nothing. This is the problem, there needs to be consequences for taking or losing systems. I agree with increasing the aggro timer, if CCP is not willing to go all the way with locking stations, but that is the only reason why it should be increased. The way I understand it is that fac-war is supposed to be a stepping stone into 0.0, so there should be similar but not so drastic consequences to losing a system. If CCP doesn't want people worrying about losing their stuff that is in a station in a system that is lost, you can just give them till the next downtime(when the system actually flips) to get their stuff out. IMO there is really no downside to anyone in fac-war other than the guys who just play docking games all day.
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari Katsu Response Unit	Posted - 2009.01.05 12:37:00 - [132] Excellent analysis. Very thought out So whats the deal CCP?
Raimo Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.01.05 12:56:00 - [133] Originally by: Dex Nederland [ Or you would have to base out of your high sec; traders & industrialist would have the opportunity to make a profit by either moving goods from hubs like Jita to militia bases or building goods and selling them at militia bases. Gasp! Pay a little bit for convenience. To resupply behind enemy lines, don't! It makes deep 'raids' and offensive more of a challenge (requires logistics and organization). It shouldn't be a Sunday drive for you an a buddy to take two RR Battleships, sit on a high sec hub gate and light up whatever is flagged. I'm sorry but it is really possible to have only one trade hub in the game with good supply of rarer items, like faction/ deadspace modules, T2 rigs and pirate implants as well as a simple thing, other faction ammo than antimatter (for hybrids). A couple of funny FWers won't change that so alt time it would be. BTW, not all of those pimp items I listed are that expensive... Sure, for the normal stuff Ours, Dodi and even Orvolle are ok. But I'm still very much against denying docking. It would also make life harder for soloers on both sides, if you're running an armor/ structure buffer you need all the station repair facilities you can get. ---
X Gallentius	Posted - 2009.01.06 18:19:00 - [134] Edited by: X Gallentius on 06/01/2009 18:22:37 Suggestion: This is factional warfare, i.e. FDU faction, not Gallente Government. Therefore, limit docking rights to opposing factions. Caldari Militia should not be able to enter FDU station for example, and FDU stations should shoot them down!
waruiushiro	Posted - 2009.01.06 23:10:00 - [135] Originally by: MirrorGod Really liked the idea waruiushiro had on page 3. ^^ Originally by: MirrorGod To expand on that basis, an idea I'd had while in the thick of FC'ing for the minmatar side over the summer was that I'd like to see CCP implement bi-weekly or monthly game-changing events tied to FW. It wouldn't need to be huge changes as my extravagant example will suggest, but this should give you a general idea. At the pinnacle of system-taking success for the minmatar, (just before the fail-patch which stopped system taking with anythign but persistent ceptor gangs.), I would have liked to see a 72 hour UNIQUE event. As an example only, I would like to see a minmatar capital and supercapital NPC fleet park themselves in a system and begin constructing a stargate to lower-domain, opening up the low-sec providence pocket to factional warfare. The 72 hour persistent event's outcome shoudl be decided the minmatar militia's ability to defend the NPC building site (very specifically, the titan popping out support, mother ships repping it, titan/MS's invulnerable unless the support fleet was taken out) Yeah but aren't the EVE events rigged anyways? One thing's for sure, the war sure has been changing. It's become just... a war, just something for fun. But it IS fun. I keep thinking of leaving, but where to? Nullsec POS yawns and blob-extravaganzas? No thank you. Lowsec ganks? Well, I don't have to leave FW to do that... Wardecs are expensive and often silly, turning into fail station camps. "ZOMG carebear corp, why u no fight us battleships?!" I pass those types of fail wars every time I undock from BTT in Rens. And that all some people do. It makes me shudder. In FW you get to know the people you fight... there's tons of opportunities for solo and small gang pvp... it even gets better sometimes as the population falls. What more could you want? Perhaps messing with it too much would ruin it. Except events. Events would be cool, but so would legalized ganja and I don't expect to see either anytime soon
Nikita Alterana Gallente The Antikythera Mechanism	Posted - 2009.01.07 05:49:00 - [136] just a thought on system taking. What if the bunker wasn't just a flat, boring building? What if it was a large, racial structure that had to be built. When a system is going to be flipped, it becomes a large event. You have to fight off the NPC defenders, destroy the defense guns, destroy the station-pos-bunker-thing, then defend the site while an NPC fleet on your side brings in capitals and rebuilds their version of the bunker. __________________________________________________ I was Amarr before they were the FOTM and I'll be Amarr after it! I'm also training Minmatar Capitals! And I eat Lions!
Atraxerxes Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.01.07 23:57:00 - [137] Flipping a system has enough PvP, that it really doesn't need any PvE added. The NPC Navy had it chance in the plexes before the system went vunerable. No need for more NPC navy ships unless they have un-godly loot to drop. EVE Chicago meet up March 7th 2009 See forum thread
Hurtado Soneka Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.01.10 05:49:00 - [138] FW = Faction Warfare = the factions are at war with each other, therefore in a RP and common sense perspective, there shouldnt be any FW players able to dock at stations belonging too, or in the region of space under control, of respective faction. Yes lazy people will complain for whatever reason (most due to Jita access probably) but for the love of god CCP, do something right and make the fighters shop in their own high street.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2009.01.10 18:03:00 - [139] Originally by: Raimo Originally by: Dex Nederland To resupply behind enemy lines, don't! It makes deep 'raids' and offensive more of a challenge (requires logistics and organization). It shouldn't be a Sunday drive for you an a buddy to take two RR Battleships, sit on a high sec hub gate and light up whatever is flagged. It would also make life harder for soloers on both sides, if you're running an armor/ structure buffer you need all the station repair facilities you can get. Well no **, it ought to** be harder to run around in enemy space than in your own. The very fact you posted something like this shows the exact reason why things need to be changed - you expect to rely on the enemy stations for assistance while you are their sworn enemy, and killing their pilots? The fact that you are able to venture into enemy space is good, but to do so you ought to rely solely on yourself and your fleet.
Xialigan Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.01.11 11:26:00 - [140] FW really begs for sense, other than 'disposable and free War Targets'. I support the idea of a greater rewarding PvE in FW (ie plex reward/rank achievement reward) Also, system occupancy should be fixed to actually mean something rather than ... not.
Raul Watanabe Gallente NQX Innovations	Posted - 2009.01.11 11:49:00 - [141] Shame i didnt spot this earlier, the OP hit it right on the head the reasons why my corp left FW which had so much potential for awesomness
Vrikshaka 0ff-Peak Esoteric Cutthroats	Posted - 2009.01.15 01:55:00 - [142] Damn, nice job OP. I read through the whole thing even tho I don't partake in FW myself, the odd surprise attack on innocent plexers aside I hope your points get the attention they deserve. FW working at it's full potential would be a major help to the vitality and diversity of the Eve.
Ryoken McKeon	Posted - 2009.01.16 06:53:00 - [143] Great OP.
MsFail	Posted - 2009.01.21 22:19:00 - [144] Edited by: MsFail on 21/01/2009 22:25:22 Amarr/Min FW is pretty much dead during the oceanic prime time during working days. I just came back to eve, for some FW fun, and it is nothing compared to what it used to be. CCP PLEASE do something about this. In fact for two nights in a row I have not been able to join a gang. The night before last some wt's came into Amarr space, we were not even in a gang when we engaged them. Last night, no wt's came.
Shachura	Posted - 2009.02.04 05:51:00 - [145] Originally by: Nami Goodbye For some reason, CCP has decided that anything that makes you isk, HAS to be boring as hell. Man I do enough work, at work. I PAY for EVE. I don't need it to be work too. I don't even ask to make lots of ISK from plexing and pvp'ing in facwar. I just don't want to go broke doing it, and have to run back to empire to mission for 3 months, in order to finance 2 months of facwar fun!!! I don't intend to assume I have all the answers. But this quote is true to ME. I work, to play EVE, for FUN. It seems obvious to me that the financial rewards should be greater than High Sec and lower than 0.0 It's true for mining, ratting etc. Have to fund the war effort some how. (And in a FUN way) Thank you for writing it. A great discussion as well. With MOST players keeping on thread. Keep it up.
MirrorGod Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.02.04 06:41:00 - [146] 5 pages, no repsonse? C'mon CCP. [center] Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Fyrkraag Caldari The Knights Templar	Posted - 2009.02.04 07:20:00 - [147] OP's points all are, for the most part, true. I was in a faction warfare corp, and I had a lot of fun doing it, but ultimately it was an introduction to pvp for me that has served as a bridge between empire life and 0.0 life. I think FW is successful in that end, but its problems threaten its sustainability and enjoyability. While I do think FW should always remain that bridge, it should also be a destination as well, and is a feature that deserves continued maintenance and improvement. --------- TKT - Fyrkraag The Knights Templar - Achievement with style: Maturity, integrity, respect.
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2009.02.05 12:36:00 - [148] Edited by: Glengrant on 05/02/2009 12:36:39 Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon Let's focus on how it might be done, rather than how it can't be done. Player awareness helps - I've posted a link to this thread on the Gallente forums; I'm hoping others have posted links to it on the other faction forums. What else can we do? Who to contact? Thoughts wanted. Contact a CSM or 2 - discuss it with them and let them bring it up. It's what the CSM is all about after all. Edit: I see in the latest CSM minutes FW was mentioned - but didn't read the details. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back! Laptop, NVidia7900GS, Ubuntu 8.04, WINE
Droog 1	Posted - 2009.02.05 13:04:00 - [149] Edited by: Droog 1 on 05/02/2009 13:04:43 Originally by: Glengrant I see in the latest CSM minutes FW was mentioned - but didn't read the details. The minutes said CCP are aware of problems with Faction Warfare but don't know how to fix it. Faction Warfare was designed to be non profitable. CCP also said that for the average player it was supposed to be played for only a limited amount of time, not forever. CCP sees a big social value in 0.0 and do not want to disrupt them by boosting FW too much.
T 2 Minmatar Tribal Core	Posted - 2009.02.05 13:23:00 - [150] I have not read all the replies here but the first posts by Friedrick Psitalon hit spot on FW. I fully support these suggestions and Urge CCP to read these posts. Most interresting and good realistic approach to FW. GJ Fried! Br, T2 ----------- Member of Tribal Core - fighting for Minmatar Militia. Death to Amarr; long live the Minmatar Nation.

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